Lets talk about War Machines

[Mirez]

So far it's been awfully quit about war machines. Ubihole has not revealed anything about it (as far as I'm aware).
The system has been the same for quite a while. There's only 4 war machines (ballista, ammo cart, first aid tent and catapult) and you can only have 1 of each.
Which is weird in my opinion, if you have a hero that specializes in ballistics wouldn't it be logical for him to have more then 1 ballista in his army? Of course you will have to balance this one way or the other so they might have to use a 'slots' mechanism. Only allowing 4 war machines in total however it can be 4 of the same.
Will they completely reinvent the system? Or just copy-paste it from older heroes games.

[Kalah]

Whether it's multiple ballistae or whether that single ballista does more damage when the hero has a special skill, is of little consequence for me. What counts is that the hero should receive a bonus.

I'd like to see more war machines; perhaps a special one for each faction, available through a certain building. Siege towers (enables creatures to enter castle despite of walls) could be nice, or tunnelling equipment ...

I very much doubt that Black hole will try to reinvent the wheel, though. Maybe for future games.

[Darkström]

Well, we do know that there'll be a catapult.

[Mirez]

I just came up with a thought.
Wouldn't it be cool if you could use your catapult in normal battles to throw caltrops or mines on the battlefield?

[Zenofex]

Personally I use war machines very rarely, even in HoMM V where they are significantly more reliable than in the previous games. The damage of the ballista is insignificant after the mid-game phase and its lowish HP make it very vulnerable to area-of-effect spells. The First Aid Tent is even less usable. If you are not planning a quick game, there is no point in wasting level ups for war machine related skills and without them, the poor wooden and textile things are nigh useless.
I'd like to see unique war machines for each faction, like Ballista for Haven, so fire-breathing device for Inferno (could be similar to the Greek flamethrowers used by the Byzantines for instance), some disease-spreading catapult for Necropolis (NOT the WarCraft Meat Wagon, mind you, but more like something throwing poisonous bombs atop the enemy heads), a Lightning Cannon for Academy, etc. These are just raw ideas of course, the names and the functions could be completely different.

[Mirez]

At first in heroes 5 plague tent was unique to necropolis, now most races can get them, a shame imo.
However you are right, those war machines aren't so effective anymore later in the game. What also anyones me is the fact you cannot place them. It sucks having my first aid tent die just because it was near some archers or something.

[Blocks100]

The idea of multiple ballistas on a battlefield imo just wouldn't look right, just too cluttered. I seem to recall being on the receiving end of AI ballista attacks in V, could be lethal if you upgraded with the brimstone shot thing.

Faction specific war machines would be excellent - Demonic Siege Ram, Siege Tower of Bones (Necro), Haven Bombard Cannon....

[parcaleste]

I wish I see the Warmchines have some guys around them to shoot the arrows/stones/whatever. How the fluck are these things moving all alone?


And this thing with the siege towers is mine idea, don't try to steal my spot, pls.

[MattII]

Well IMO the first thing that needs to change is that War Machines need to be controllable from the start. As well, I'd say remove the increasing Hp thing, and just allow them to be stacked like creatures. The difference between effects at low and high mastery need to be reduced, I mean look at the FATent, it heals 10 points base, 20 at Basic. That's pathetic compared to H3's 25 and 50 respectively.

I'm not sure about faction-specific war machines, I mean, yes, the idea has potential, but then you have to try to come up with some unique designs, which I can't imagine would be easy for even 4-5 factions, let alone how many we're going to end up with.

[parcaleste]

Perhaps better idea for the tent is to act like the Regeneration spell and to heal, even 10% of the creatures health, no matter of it's level, it will be WAY much more useful than this (well, at least for the higher level units). But AT LEAST make it's shots unlimited or at least increase them DRASTICALLY. Like the Ballista is having how many? 20? 50? Why should the tent must have just three?

[ecsunotos]

I want to see :
1. War Ladder or what ever its name is. It's the ladder so that army can climb up castle wall. It's very usefull for low level units ( non flyers ) to reach enemy troops behind the wall, instead of being shot outside the wall while waiting the door opened
2. Door Breaker or what ever it's name. It's a construction, swing like war machine, ( hammer headed ) to break castle door. Usually army will push this war machine to the castle door. And then swing its hammer head to the door to break it. They can put some fire in the head to increase the damage power.

[MattII]

Problem is, neither of those work well if the place has a moat.

[Mirez]

Why do I feel you've watched the lord of the rings? :p

[ecsunotos]

Why do I feel you've watched the lord of the rings? :p

It's not an imaginary war machine IMHO.

[MattII]

Yeah, it's hard to find an imaginary war machine because so many have been tried over the years, even as far as repeating ballistas.

[ecsunotos]

Yeah, it's hard to find an imaginary war machine because so many have been tried over the years, even as far as repeating ballistas.

It's not an imaginary if I imagine that those war machines to be applied in the next sequel then ?

[Zenofex]

The repeating ballista is not imaginary, there are historical records of such devices. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybolos.
As for the imaginary stuff - it's not that difficult to invent new things. For instance, Academy could field some grenade-launcher-like device, which fires some containers full of powdered alchemical concentrate that turns all who inhale certain dose into frogs or abnormally lazy cats .

[MattII]

Nah, can't say I like the idea, although if you made them plague grenades instead I could easily see the academy using them.

[ThunderTitan]

Frankly i have nothing against just having 1 of each, what they need to do is make them more useful at all stages of the game... like having the Tent be able to heal all units for less life or one for more or the ballista dmg more then 1 unit (the skills from 5 for it where a good idea).

Maybe you can actually get to upgrade then instead of relying on skills... with various upgrades to choose from (like poison, or explosive dmg, slowing down units and that sort of stuff).

[Tress]

I think there is no real need for different war machines than those homm3/5 have. 1 attacking and one support. Only thing is that they need to have more balanced scale from primary stats, so they are both useful and not too powerful at any time of game. If hero spends whole section of skill points for machines then they certainly cant be useless, specially if compared to spell skills. Also like spell's machines should have limited charges so you couldn't abuse them like paralyze last enemy and res everyone. Homm 5 had many good ideas compared to homm3 in terms of war machines.
Only thing I dislike machines myself is fact they get ruined by aoe effects. Thats ok if they can be destroyed but they should respawn after fight or at least after few turns even if you don't have skill. Fact that hero must return to blacksmith every time he loses machine is bit same as if you would lose spell book after each other fight. Thats primary reason I never used them in homm 3, for example I ignored FA skill in all sod campaigns I get control of Gem.