Fallout

[Talin_Trollbane]

im kinda sad to say it to, but this modern next-gen Bethesda isnt the same company i used to like.

Haha, did you honestly expect them to develop "a turn-based, top-down Fallout" for the next-gen consoles?

nope, i was hoping for Van Buren there for awhile, then that and Interplay "died" and i forgot about the whole thing until Bethesda released Fallout FPS.

the decline really began with Oblivion, actually, not FOFPS (no, i will not call it Fallout 3.) for me, when consoles really made its entrance on the stage, why they couldnt make a "easified" (i am being nice here, folks) standalone console version of Oblivion (and Fallout.) and let the PC people have their own, fleshed out version is beyond me, it worked so well with Morrowind.

[TheUndeadKing]

Well, it's the new trend nowadays. They first develop it for the consoles, then port it to the PC. It used to be the other way around (like you mentioned with Morrowind). Sadly, they "don't have time" for this kind of stuff anymore.

[Talin_Trollbane]

thats why i sincerely hope for a big market collapse like the one back when i was a kid, in 1984.

the industry could need a little fresh air.

[Humakt]

it worked so well with Morrowind.

You say that like Morrowind was a good game.

[klaymen]

thats why i sincerely hope for a big market collapse like the one back when i was a kid, in 1984.

the industry could need a little fresh air.

Indeed. Now the originality lies in indie scene, the rest is mostly re-using the same franchises over and over (Call of Duty anyone?).

[Talin_Trollbane]

it worked so well with Morrowind.

You say that like Morrowind was a good game.

it was, actually, not up to Daggerfall standard of course, but deep and good enough for being TES.

[Humakt]

You say that like Morrowind was a good game.

it was, actually, not up to Daggerfall standard of course, but deep and good enough for being TES.

I haven't played it but a well respected professional game reviewer in my country has told Morrowind is a lot better than Daggerfall and its million random-generated caverns infested with teleporting monsters, and I think I trust his word over yours. No offence intended of course.

Now I've completed Oblivion (so it was good enough) and after doing it I tried Morrowind. I was quickly turned off by the hamstrung AI which at best just walks around (while in Oblivion NPC's look like they actually live in the world) and even worse dialogue system. I know the text in Oblivion wasn't good but I didn't expect it was worse in Morrowind. Obviously, I didn't play it for long (maybe couple hours at max), but maybe you want to enlighten me what made those brilliant Bethesda games of the past so much better?

And since this is Fallout topic, I can say that Fallout 3 is a lot better game than Oblivion.

[Talin_Trollbane]

i dont give a rotten apple to professional game journalism they always go with the flow and give the high numbers to new games, what you should go with is word on the street or the reviews of very critical RPG veterans or even better check out RPGcodex reviews, those guys are dont hold back even if they like the game.

and i guess no matter how much evidence i dig up from all of my threads and posts all over the internet of how much more deeper fleshed lore and bigger livelier political world Daggerfall/Morrowind has or how more darker and C & C the original Fallouts are from Fallout FPS you will still hold your ground, so think we should leave it to that, since i guess you are one of those new guys who came in after Oblivion got released?

and its not an personal attack or anything, just a question.

but i must admit Beth did code Fallout 3 way better then Oblivion, but they could work alot more on lore and game world size, they have still not gone away from that Disney theme park feeling their newer games give off, where you can see the next town from the gate of the current town and the black and white only "good and evil".

hopefully they will have learned their lessons by TES 5, otherwise Oblivion will be the last TES game in my book, which is a shame since ive already been let down by both Origin (U9) and New World Computing (M&M9).

[Ethric]

Oi, it's Fallout we're talking about here (far better than TES (well not FO3, obviously)).

Anyone played Fallout 2 with a jinxed character? I thought it would be fun, and workable with a luck 10-character. But I seem to have misunderstood how critical misses and/or the jinxed trait work. I thought it only occured when you missed in the first place, and thus that with good skill and 95 % hits a few critical misses wouldn' be much of a problem. But my jinxed hand-to-hand guy keeps missing critically at least 50 % of all 95% chance hits. Meaning jinxed also ruins your initial chance to hit.

[Humakt]

i dont give a rotten apple to professional game journalism they always go with the flow and give the high numbers to new games, what you should go with is word on the street or the reviews of very critical RPG veterans or even better check out RPGcodex reviews, those guys are dont hold back even if they like the game.

and i guess no matter how much evidence i dig up from all of my threads and posts all over the internet of how much more deeper fleshed lore and bigger livelier political world Daggerfall/Morrowind has or how more darker and C & C the original Fallouts are from Fallout FPS you will still hold your ground, so think we should leave it to that, since i guess you are one of those new guys who came in after Oblivion got released?

Maybe that's true in general for journalism, but not for this guy. He's been reviewing games since 80's and has always been a spot on with them (he did give Daggerfall a score 80, Morrowind 87 and Oblivion 92 so none of them got any bad scores). And he did point out Oblivions's flaws.

As for me, well, I did own Morrowind before Oblivion. Morrowind looked like something that might interest me and well, I collect PC games (mostly good, but I've got some mishaps like Warlords IV). Ultimately I never really bothered to get into it and I completed Oblivion before I even gave a decent try for Morrowind.

But I can tell I'm not new to RPG games in general (and lets face it, there are better rpg games than any from TES).

In order of when I've played them:
Betrayal At Krondor (like an excellent book, with good combat and rpg mechanics, I didn't finish this before much later since early attempts I faced game crashing bug in chapter 5 I think).
Baldur's Gate (completed it about 4 times)
Baldur's Gate 2 (ditto).
Planescape Torment (completed it only once, gave it a second go but never finished it, great game though)
Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal (ok expansion, completed it twice. Story is way too obvious and main villain has likely the most annoying voice I've ever heard in games)
Arcanum of Steamworks and Magik Obscura (Steampunk, excellent game but has some major flaws, completed it twice).
King of Dragon Pass (not many know of this).
Fallout (bit late but I played it through, great but definitely not without flaws)
Fallout 2 (should someday complete this I was turned off by whole tribal thing though, reminded me too much of Mad Max 3 and its tribals I guess)
Icewind Dale (played it with serial and alone, but never finished it. Felt like Baldur's Gate lite, with linear progressing and no companions)
Neverwinter Nights 1 (I couldn't bear to finish the awfully dull single player)
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (gave it a small try before and after Oblivion)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (played main plot through without mods first, then played more extensively with expansions and mods, didn't bother much with Shivering Isles though).
Icewind Dale 2 (bit of an improvement over first one, but still not good enough IMO)
Neverwinter Nights 2 (tried it once but long docks section reminded me too much of the first one. Later I gave it a second try and managed to get past boring stages of the game and found pear inside the thick shell, completed main game three times after that)
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer (story is excellent and reminds me a lot of Planescape Torment, completed it twice)
Mass Effect (completed this three times, story is engaging, dialogue great and world fascinating. It is hybrid though)
Fallout 3 (ok, this IS a RPG/FPS hybrid, but that's not really a problem for me since I've always enjoyed good FPS and first person is the most immersive way to get into the game world. Third person is the way to go for party controlled system though. I've finished main plot three times, but for the last time I got Broken Steel and Point Lookout, which are both good)
Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir (completed this once, but frankly it was bit too shallow)
Deus Ex 2: Invisible War (I have to try the first one sometime but the second didn't interest me much)
The Witcher Enchanced Edition (completed this twice, it is great game)
Dragon Age Origins (as above)
Mass Effect 2 (like first one, but even better because of the companions and their loyalty missions, completed it twice in very short time)

Of course there is Jagged Alliance 1 and 2 which have lot of rpg elements but ultimately they are strategy/tactical games and Bioshock but that is fps with no more rpg elements than Call of Duty 4-6 multiplayer. Note: I consider games like Diablo and Sacred hack and slash, not rpg's. I also play many other genres than RPG as well.

Sorry Ethric, I got bit carried away, but I did at least mention Fallouts. If you must, you can move our discussion into general rpg thread or something.

[TheUndeadKing]

Deus Ex 2: Invisible War (I have to try the first one sometime but the second didn't interest me much)

You really should, if you have the time and patience that is (and can withstand its now-ugly graphics & animations). The difference between Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Invisible War is tremendous! Story-wise, Deus Ex is much, much better. The voice acting is top notch and it has the better soundtrack (which is very fitting). It also has massive levels (with plenty of stuff to explore), a better inventory and skill system, better dialogue, and an amazing game length (it's ridiculously longer than Invisible War). Combined with its multiple endings, it really is a once in a lifetime experience!

[TheCoolinator]

Some guy I know got me into Fallout. He always used to talk about all the crazy stuff you could do in the game. When I finally got the chance to pop it in I found out he was absolutely correct.

The mixture of RPG elements, turn based combat, and the humorous post apocalyptic theme really made Fallout 1 & 2 amazing games.

I must say though that I was a tad disappointed with Fallout 2 because they didn't have anywhere near the amount of talking heads the first game had but it was a good game nonetheless. I understand the developers were rushed and out of funding. I don't know about you guys but I don't consider Fallout 3 a "fallout" game. It deviates too far from what fallout really is. For me at least.


My favorite part in fallout 1 would probably be the beginning when you just left the vault and later on in the game when you storm the mutant base.

I don't remember too much of Fallout 2 but I liked the flow of the game. Just remember to patch it up before you play it. The game has a nasty glich involving the car you drive in it.

[Ethric]

Try it with the Fallout 2 Restoration Project 2.0 (Unofficial FO2 Expansion), it restores much of what was cut from the game. Maybe wait till the next update is out, there are a few things to work out.

[Humakt]

You really should, if you have the time and patience that is (and can withstand its now-ugly graphics & animations).

I'm certain I've seen worse, but 3D tends to age fast (though now technology is at the point it probably doesn't matter anymore). But I'll try to get my hands on the legal copy somehow someday.

[Angelspit]

Deus Ex 2: Invisible War (I have to try the first one sometime but the second didn't interest me much)

The first one provides much more freedom, compared to the small, claustrophobic environments of the sequel. The improvements to the interface are not really worth it. Still, I found the Invisible War to be enjoyable.

[TheUndeadKing]

Still, I found the Invisible War to be enjoyable.

Me, too. To be honest, it was a decent sequel and it was better than your average FPS/RPG hybrid (it still is even by today's standards). The problem with it was that, it just was nowhere near as epic as the first one, if you know what I mean.

No doubt, the level design and the interface were clearly dumbed down for the consoles.

[Ethric]

New Vegas should be good. Better than F3, for sure. They've even been allowed to hire professional people to do the voices, instead of just two people alternating doing silly voices like in F3 (and Oblivion). As long as they don't blow it by releasing it unfinished and cutting down the after-release support to half a hamster on part time..

[ThunderTitan]

I don't think the number of voice actors has anything to do with anything... just look at the EA C&C games... lots of famous voice actors, not that much of a good game...

[Ethric]

I'm guessing you never played Fallout 3, or Oblivion, if you think having good and varied voice actors is a waste.

[ThunderTitan]

I keep meaning to... but the stupid job is making me too tired to be able to play games at the rate i used to...

That and the EA C&C games (and 6 as Kerrigan) have soured me on professional actors doing game voices...