Heroes 6 wishlist (draft)

[lotusreaver]

I'd like for them to combine the universes of the older M&M games with the newer ones, even if it's only by having some older heroes portal in. (They do mention Sandro and Crag hack in Heroes 5, but those are names already used by multiple characters in the old M&M universe)

Yeah. That's not going to happen. I spoke to the scenario writer at E3 about recombining the two universes and the answer was basically (and I'm paraphrasing) "no way in hell."

That being said, I wouldn't mind if JVC decided to create a new set of games that are not called Might & Magic, but continue the old storylines.

[Secret_Holder]

My wish for HVI is that it will be done old-school: In 2D as it should be.
Just because game developers have the ability to make 3D-rendered games, doesn't mean, that every single game should be in 3D. 2D games are also making a comeback of sorts, so why not?

Designing all games in 3D would be the same as if every single new movie was in color, and this is not the case. Movies are still made in black and white, and if they're done properly, it works.

[Corlagon]

Yeah. That's not going to happen. I spoke to the scenario writer at E3 about recombining the two universes and the answer was basically (and I'm paraphrasing) "no way in hell."

Heh, that says it all, doesn't it.

Have you any more details on that one, perchance? What was the elongated answer?

[lotusreaver]

Have you any more details on that one, perchance? What was the elongated answer?

Well, the long answer is that Ubi invested a lot of time and energy to develop a new universe for future Heroes V games and they didn't want to be bogged down with the old storyline. All these decisions pretty much come from Ubi. The developers from Nival or Capybara or Arkane basically get a continuity guide and have to stick to it.

It's like a parent ignoring their step-child after a new marriage. The Ashan continuity is Ubi's baby. They're going to take it as far as possible because they think it's better.

[lotusreaver]

Actually, a while back I wrote about my wishlist for Heroes VI here. Some of the ideas mirror what you all have included in this thread.

But there are also concepts that are more outrageous, should Ubi want to be less conservative with their approach this time around. The ideas aren't fully fleshed out, I admit. And changing too many things could be disastrous (a la Heroes IV) But it'd be neat if someone important read the article, considered my ideas, and improved on them.

[Kristo]

I read your blog post. I heartily agree with "Open Maps, Less Tunnels," though that's largely a mapmaking problem and not one of game design. Your suggestion for including some Civ-like features is also interesting. Having large cities give bonuses to mine production might make early-game turtling a more viable strategy. One could choose to fortify a smaller area instead of always aggressively acquiring more territory.

Since you brought up realism, I think the current way armies work is probably the most realistic. In the real world, two small but similar armies can link up in much the same way you can right now (combining creature stacks and such). But your suggestion opens up the possibility of combining two huge, dissimilar armies while keeping the bonuses of both generals - without penalty. Would you still be limited to 7 creature stacks in the combined army? Would you limit it to two heroes?

Your blockade idea might work if and only if you allow the hit-and-run tactic to work both ways. If the attacker is permitted to leave the fight inside the castle, the defender must be allowed to leave the fight at the doorstep and return inside the castle. Otherwise the attacker can simply Spell'n Run repeatedly with minimal consequences. The defender will eventually lose and there isn't anything he can do about it. Also, why do you want to punish people for not stationing a hero in every castle?

Finally, "More Expensive Less Expendible" is fine as long as things remain balanced. The high level creatures' power and durability needs to be consistent with their cost relative to the other creatures. Otherwise the game degenerates back into a race to Black Dragons.

All in all, you have some interesting, well-written ideas. I wonder if anyone at Ubisoft will ever read them...

[Zarniwoop]

Note: for those that don't want to read my wandering nattering, here's the summary post.

1. Do the little things right. The big things you're taking on don't matter.
2. Graphical power is the fourth or fifth most important thing at best in a HOMM game.
3. Don't leave the campaign maps until last. If you can't ship with brilliant maps, it's not done.
4. Did I mention the little details? That's where you score a 95 or a 75 with a niche game.
5. Dont' reinvent the wheel. Make the wheel again but reinvent the parts that matter. Maps, Campaign, Music. Art changes, but if you don't really get what I'm saying, go back and play HOMM2 again.

Did you notice that 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are all essentially, don't blow the little things in different forms? Good. But, remember, if you blow the maps, you blew everything.

Shorter version: You're not going to vastly improve HOMM from where the series was at Heroes3. Accept that and understand what a heroes player wants. Brilliantly balanced casltes/creatures and maps.


Long blustery version:
1. HOMM is at heart, a little things game. HOMM stuck it's fangs into many of us because it had the perfect mix of detailed maps, character development, town building, combat, magic, quirky art and, above all, brilliant map design.

2. Style matters, but that doesn't mean graphical power. Making a game look good is great. But, don't put in a single thing that adds a moment of lag on a middle of the road gaming machine. It's the "style" that wins, not the splendor. HOMM2 is still the best game from an artistic standpoint for it's time.

3. Don't forget the campaign. All that work you just put into the latest version of that brilliant real physics engine (exaggeration) is wasted if you don't nail the maps AND the campaign. That hurt Heroes 3 to an extent. It had a horrendous campaign after Heroes 2's brilliant campaigns. In the end, for all the great touches, it has to be compelling. On impossible, only the best players should win the first couple tries on a map. Don't build something brilliant and hope the community fleshes out a weak map pack. Don't promise a later release of a map pack. Ship with it, or stay home.

4. It's in the details. Heroes is the little things. The sound the halflings made when they bit it, the many and appropriate music themes, the spell effects that didn't slow combat down to a crawl but were still great, the balance between very different unit/castle types, and a lot more. But, none of it was THE feature that sold the game (except the map balancing). It just all added to MUCH more than the sum of it's parts. This leads us to what I want....

5. Realize that you don't try to dress up a simple recipe just because you can. The people that love and buy this game are those that love it for the essence of what it is. You could stip out 3D maps, 15 second spell animations that become boring quickly, and anything else that just gets in the way and you'd be a genius.

[lotusreaver]

And don't forget the vampires that say 'BLA!' whenever they attack.

[ThunderTitan]

It's pronounced "BLAH!".

[Lady Illusia]

I'm still playing heroes 3 after many, many years. it's like a pair of faithful old jeans, much newer ones in the wardrobe but but still choose the old comfy ones.

What makes it eternally playable? ( apart from WOG)

The random map generator.

So please, please make sure that is included in any future heroes.

[Aerosoldier]

Just make Heroes 6 as fast as Heroes 3, Heroes 5 is EXTREMELY slow.

[Kalah]

Yes, please. Speed, speed and more speed. Without having to use supercomputers.

[Vampirlord17]

1.Many Campaigns, not divided, so that People must buy Add-ons.
2.Choices in Campaigns( like, to choose who to battle the end boss, or what path to go, or other things that could make a mission better)
3.More Creatures
4.Missions with Findan! Thou Godric wont be possible, Findan is good too.(weird that the elves were not in hof or tote, and i buyed these add ons just because i wanted more of the story, and more of Findan and Godric.)
5.Every Hero looks different on the map, like with their pictures.
6.A rather easy first mission(gimme a break here, the first one for ToTe was a killingly time run)

[Variol]

My wish is that it will not be made by the Russians: sad, but true.

[Variol]

..I also like the idea of Heroes 4, where you could transport the troops around. It would be nice to have that again. It saves on heroes, which are only for that task, and it's safer.

I like the idea of units gaining experience, like in WoG.

[Elias_Maluco]

I said before, I will say it again:

All I wanted is an improved HOMM 5 with:

- better (and faster) AI,
- better (more customizable) random map generator,
- better balance,
- two hero classes per town (like HOMM 3),

Gimme that and I will buy it and play the fuck out of it for years.

[ThunderTitan]

A bigger sense of scale on the overland map and in combat... H5 was way to claustrophobic in both areas... especially for the graphics it had... if the player wan't to see their hero up close let them use the zoom function and UI...

[xanatus123]

I agree with the above three,

- Units that get experience from battle that increases skill / unlocks skills. No where near as powerfull as WoG though just like +10% HP, Atk, Def, Dmg max and unlocks a new spell or no retaliation sort of thing for the unit
- Two classes per town, Might and Magic or w/e to allow for whichever playstyle you like. (obviously barbarian mage = weaker spell then acadamy mage and acadamy might = weaker then barbarian might.)
- AI Turns that are almost instant / 30 sec max
- Better Random Map Generator with more features.
- A more Open map style, larger maps but with less "corridor effect" like Heroes 2/3

My Cents

[Variol]

I still question the use of 3D is this game as well. Yes, it looks nice, but is it really necessary? I find I'm messing with camera angles, more than I'm playing the game. This is especially bad in the underground.

Is this all a moot point BTW; or do the powers that be, actually read this?

..and what psycho created that map editor? The H3 one was excellent.

[ThunderTitan]

No one makes 2D games for anything but handhelds or as webgames any more.

But what you want would easily be done with a good camera angle, more zoom out and see through options on everything.