Is M&M IX worth buying?

[Macros the Black]

I meant Role-Playing as in Dialogue choices and stuff like that. If you remember, M&M VI tried to do some of that half-heartedly with the incredibly useless Diplomacy skill. I'm not trying to knock the series for that, there's something to be said for focusing on the gameplay, but it's not the end-all for RPGs if you want choice.

I often find such preprogrammed dialogue choices to make roleplaying futile. In my mind, as I go through the game and interact with the different NPCs, I usually think of what each of my party members would say and how they would respond. Having the game creators do that for me kinda ruins it. Especially since, with the SOLE exception of really good adventure classics, no game has ever had a very good implementation of such dialogue choices. They're never very interesting or compelling, and tend to be a superfluous system.

If you want to talk real roleplaying, like the regular Dungeons and Dragons game (e.g. not computers games), it's alot more like what I described than the stale choices you get. In the actual roleplaying games, you would personally have something to say about what your character does, and what effect your opinions have on the party.
This doesn't exist in computer games, so no computer game is technically really a "roleplaying" game.

But, you can certainly think out such encounters in your mind. Unless a game does it for you.

So that's why I'd say the Might and Magic series is pretty good for roleplaying, and if it's not your cup of tea you don't even have to do it.

Just my two cents.

[Corlagon]

Interesting, hopefully some relations to older MMs? Corak and sci-fi elements anyone?

I'm not sure about absolute specifics but from speaking with some of the game's developers, I'm more and more convinced that they were indeed using MM9 initially as a clean slate with the intention of slowly building up an overt relation with the older games (though the story officially ended with Writ of Fate, sadly).

According to Tim Lang, the three Wyrdes (Igrid is one) were actually intended to be the Ancients in mortal guise - they don't appear in person, since the Igrid we meet is Njam in disguise, but they're the three women, aged, middle-aged and young, who are depicted in those large statues in the Hall of the Gods. It's already implied that Verhoffin was something similar to Sheltem, but that element was going to be explored more in MM10, and so was the Horde's homeland of Beldonia, where a lot of dormant Ancient technology still existed. Though it wasn't overt, Ebora and the Tomb demons were actually Kreegans too (officially), though that's never stated in the game, and Ebora was going to return in MM10 too. The Gods weren't intended to represent the Ancients at any stage, but rather a third power (actual Gods watching over the physical world).

[alienstookmybeer]

I'm playing it now and like it. Much like Ultima IX, it has the feel of a game that doesn't follow it's predecessors well but still is fun to play.

[Tress]

Well personally i believe its worst part of the series. Even if you dont take in account that its untested beta at best, it is also sub par in other aspect of game, like plot, gameplay etc. Ofc its better than legends but it cant be really counted as anything more than lame CS clone.
As for question, should you buy it - well it is really cheap, you can take it for kicks and just if you are curious to see it and to have complete set of game series.
As to clarify why game is bad(I wont even mention bugs and unimplemneted features) -
Graphics are really sub par to any RPG that came at about that time, how exactly NWC/3do managed to mutilate litech to such extent is beyond me.
Only location that imo looked good was frosgard. Its snowy mountains
really stood out from green/gray mass that game consisted of.

Combat system lacks depth even if you compare to previous games. For example they offer formation screen but I am pretty sure you cant feel effect of positioning without highly precise instruments to measure difference.(Comapring to MM to Wizardry system it would be insult to latter altough both games and series are innerly close to each other)

World is created such way that it is much more linear to explore than previous games.
Game is set is completely in new world and there is almost nothing indicating its MM at all apart from rare references to previous games.
Plot in my opinion was completely nonMM like. There was only 1 mention of ancients and even then its really vague. Also plot was very weak in my opinion.
Game visual design is also made by using various shortcuts. For example there is completely no drawing of inventory items apart from 1cm^2 thumbnails most of which arn't unique and there is no way i could see this or that item looks on my character (part I really loved from m6-8)

[GreatEmerald]

World is created such way that it is much more linear to explore than previous games.

Does it get any more linear than XEEN with its keys to dungeons and towers?

[Tress]

Personally i found xeen games really open, there was few keys but they were easy to come except for some. You could easly go to any surface square at start if you had level to travel there.
What i meant with mm9 linearity is structure that there is only handful of posibilities to travel between locations by foot. Also structure of locations is limited to corridors made of mountains,and there is no free movement as flight, jump,
You get more or less. choice of movment only when you get to 3 th- 4th location. Also good portion of game is locked to 1/3 or 1/4 of endgame.

[koval321]

My first contact with M&M was when my friend borrow me mm6, then i do everything to buy that game (well the same as diablo1 i could spend each coin for it) Ok but when i seen mm9 i was disapointed, or even shock. Yes its original but am not sure. Well i never finished this game and this make me wonder because i finished whole world of xeen and i like it much better than mm9. So honesty i must say its NOT

[Deadguy118]

So I actually did pick up a copy for $5<, installed the TELP patch, and played for a few hours. It's not terrible, but just kind of mediocre. Here are the things that I like:

1. The branched promotion system is a neat idea that is executed somewhat poorly, as the way the skills are set up makes it so you are going to pre-pick your 3rd tier class from the get-go.

2. The actual dungeon crawling is decent. Too bad it seems that every single dungeon past the sewers is full of monsters that are far more powerful than my lvl 10ish party.

3.The music is good.

Now for the stuff that I don't like

1. Your party moves too dang slow, and appearently there isn't a fly spell to help them get around faster. There is that spell that makes you run faster, but it's not very effective and lasts far too short. Whatever happened to 1 hour per point of skill?

2.The interface. Although I'm fine with the game controlling more like a FPS, the main problem is the inventory. The paper doll inventory was far better than the long list of items+generic graphic. This jankiness continues on into when you buy and sell items or cast a spell

3.While I'm here, why did anyone think it was a good idea to have skill trainers be random NPCs in the towns? Sure, the old method wasn't the most intuitive but at least you could memorize locations.

4. Aside from the obvious Nicholai Ironfist quest, there is no reference to this being related to the rest of the series. Is this supposed to take place in the same world as Heroes IV? Then why does everything sound Nordic? Why was my party declared saviors of the world for killing a few dragonflies? (I am fine with plot spoilers, as I probably won't finish the entire game) Also, when did Half-Orcs become a M&M race?

5. Character Creation is disappointingly bare-bones. Pick if you want to be might or magic, choose your race (with only 4 portraits each), pick two skills and distribute your stat points. Initial Specialization > Initial Generalization to late Specialization

But now I am sounding like a whiner, so now for the things that I am neutral on:

1. The skills system has been simplified, making daggers useless and axes useful. However, the Armor skill is a good idea as levels of mastery determine who can wear what armors. Why do dodging and unarmed exist if there is no class that can GM them? (kind of like how Hammerhands was in M&M VIII even though there was no monk class)

2. Spells being tied to two different skills is neat in concept, but all that does is force you to put points in skills you would otherwise ignore (I.E. I am making one of my initiates a lich and so putting points into spirit or light is not a great idea.)

I will probably play some more, but I will not guarantee that I will finish it (Because I would much rather finish M&M VIII instead, even though it's super easy and unbalanced).

[Avonu]

3.While I'm here, why did anyone think it was a good idea to have skill trainers be random NPCs in the towns? Sure, the old method wasn't the most intuitive but at least you could memorize locations.

These NPCs also stayed in one place - they move few meters here and there but they still are around one point. It is hard to located them for first time but later it is easier.
In previous MMs finding trainers also wasn't easy for first time.

4. Aside from the obvious Nicholai Ironfist quest, there is no reference to this being related to the rest of the series.

There is. There are some notes about Ancients and also one NPC had vision of two swords clashing. Very few references but more than just Nicolai.

Is this supposed to take place in the same world as Heroes IV? Then why does everything sound Nordic?

This continent is opposite side of planet then HIV continent.

Why was my party declared saviors of the world for killing a few dragonflies? (I am fine with plot spoilers, as I probably won't finish the entire game)

It will be revealed near end but if you don't want to wait for that part of game read text below

Spoiler
Becuse some god wants some suckers to do job for him.
/Spoiler

Also, when did Half-Orcs become a M&M race?

From very long - since MM3 at least if not MM1 or MM2.

Why do dodging and unarmed exist if there is no class that can GM them? (kind of like how Hammerhands was in M&M VIII even though there was no monk class)

IIRC Druid is GM of these skills.

2. Spells being tied to two different skills is neat in concept, but all that does is force you to put points in skills you would otherwise ignore (I.E. I am making one of my initiates a lich and so putting points into spirit or light is not a great idea.)

Not quite - secondary magic schools also influence at spell - it duration or other effects. I don't remember now how it's work but I had test it long ago and if you level both spell magic scholls - spell worked better.

[Deadguy118]

Ok, thanks for the clarification. But I can see why it's considered a pariah amoung the Might and Magic community... mainly because of the high quality of it's predecessors. Maybe I should finish MMVIII or World of Xeen instead.

[Tress]

1. The branched promotion system is a neat idea...

Its pretty good idea unfortunately its not really thought well. Example that only lich can be Gm dark while there is 2 or 3 clases with GM light.

2. The actual dungeon crawling is decent...

Some dungeons were good, however as you mentioned its not really well balanced with location lvl and traveling isnt too free. Thats another example of bad game design.

1. Your party moves too dang slow, and appearently there isn't a fly spell to help them get around faster. There is that spell that makes you run faster, but it's not very effective and lasts far too short. Whatever happened to 1 hour per point of skill?

It gets canceled every time you get yourself in combat or get hit or even worse when threat indicator turns yellow, even if it is from neutral guard( dont remeber which one). So duration increase is quite useless, however speed increase can shorten runs, specially in cities like thjorgard.

4. Aside from the obvious Nicholai Ironfist quest, there is no reference to this being related to the rest of the series...

Thats imo really big point why game "isnt good". Apart from that and animal named cult, and palm in corner of screen you could think that this game isnt related to mm in any way. Even more for some reason game intro states its JVC game, while he isnt listed in credits. They wanted kinda make reboot after hmm3/mm8 by creating new world(stating world is big, and thus series set here could be unrelated in any way they please- aka shortcut for story writers and kick in the nuts for old fans, fortunately ubisoft made reboot in much more feasible fashion although not without its many flaws.
AS for second part of point- Plot imo was quite weak although I admit it cached my interest at few points. No you aren't savior because of killing dragonflies and short version of plot device was given by poster above. Half orcs- new world new races, cant really blame for that.

1. The skills system has been simplified, making daggers useless and axes useful. However, the Armor skill is a good idea as levels of mastery determine who can wear what armors. Why do dodging and unarmed exist if there is no class that can GM them? (kind of like how Hammerhands was in M&M VIII even though there was no monk class)

Dont really remeber how was weapon system, but if i remember corectly then GM skill of blade varried per class and assassins version worked only with daggers, still would be cute if they would have stated that in tooltip rather than- effect varries per class.
As for unarmed- druid is new monk. GM dodge/unarmed. As for that i think it isnt too bad when classes have wider selection of skills since clases with such narrow restrictions really ruined any other class setup other than */rogue/priest/sorcerer in mm7.

[Corlagon]

aka shortcut for story writers and kick in the nuts for old fans, fortunately ubisoft made reboot in much more feasible fashion although not without its many flaws.

Well, look, what's a bigger kick in the nuts, a poor and phenomenally inconsistent story that goes nowhere set on Enroth or a reasonable one set on Axeoth?

NWC deserve due credit for the choice they made as far as I'm concerned. Since the lead world developer resigned after two projects and the series creator took one step back too many for both Axeoth games, it's a miracle the series' story as a whole turned out as it did.

[GreatEmerald]

Yeap, Axeoth isn't bad. I'm quite surprised they didn't move on to other worlds earlier - basically all previous MM games are on different worlds (nacelles), with the sole exception of MM4 and 5, yet they are still almost different worlds as they are different sides.

[Variol]

The thing is, if you get through playing MM9 once, there is no reason to ever play it again.

There is far too little good, and far too much stupid in the game.

[Secret_Holder]

Yeap, Axeoth isn't bad. I'm quite surprised they didn't move on to other worlds earlier - basically all previous MM games are on different worlds (nacelles), with the sole exception of MM4 and 5, yet they are still almost different worlds as they are different sides.

This isn't true. Enroth, Antagarich and Jadame are on one planet.

[GreatEmerald]

I'm quite surprised they didn't move on to other worlds earlier

Self-quote: I meant that I'm surprised that MM6-8 are on the same world, as well as HoMM1-3.

[Deadguy118]

Well, I have only played 6 or so hours and I am already burnt out, mostly because whenever I put in the disk I think of all the other, far better games that I could waste my time with. Like World of Xeen or even M&M VIII.

Oh well. It was still probably worth it, as I paid like a dollar for the game and can finally understand why it's such a pariah in the Might and Magic community.

It's not a bad game per se, but it reeks of missed potential. If given 6-12 additional months of development time and some more funding, it probably could have been pretty good.

[Talin_Trollbane]

well it is a ok game with the TELP patch, too bad Bones couldnt get his thumb out and finish the 1.4 patch he was doing or someone else taking it up and finish it.