Best level 5 spell

[Banedon]

OK... I'm going to be unpopular, but implosion is just incredibly good, or can be under the right circumstances.

I play almost exclusively as Sylvan. Triple Ballista, Imbue Ballista, Expert Destructive magic. That's all that really need be said.

Rain of arrows an army that has three favored enemies in it (Realistic if you're remotely good at planning out your attacks) and triple ballista. That's six implosions in one round. Lets say you have 30 spellpower from items and level ups, that's 1240 damage, in addition to any items you might have that give increased spell damage to earth (A likely possibility). With +50% earth its 1860 per cast.

If you have 30 Spell Power, chances are battles are on such a scale that Divine Vengeance would deal a lot more damage than Implosion.

[Wolfsburg]

The problem is that you have to count on those spells popping up in your mage guild when you develop your ranger...

Risky business.

Got screwed more then once.

[Asheera]

That's the reason why I hate that you can't select spells at the Magic Guild, OR at least see a list of the spells before you place the buildings.

[Banedon]

COtN/WoL: the damage isn't low, it's actually huge. 144 + 12*Power for each stack is actually MASSIVE, especially when you consider Master of Pain/Wrath giving an additional +4 Power while at least a Knight may gain an additional +3 for Twilight on both. Even with only 5 stacks for the opposition and a meagre 4 Power + another 4 for MoW, a Word of Light casting will kill a whopping 1200 Hit Points which is massive. A Necro with his high power will easily do 1500+ damage and against a full 7-stack army 2000+ damage are the rule.
The trouble with this spell is that it's either extremely powerful or completely useless which is a big let-down.

It is low. You're dealing area damage to every creature in your opponent's army, but not every creature is relevant. Say you're facing Sylvan for example, the creatures you want to kill first are the Elves, the Druids maybe, the Dragons. Most of the other creatures simply do not matter. It's great if you can hit them anyway (say, with Meteor Shower) but your primary focus at the start of the battle will not be on neutralizing them.

So, even though Curse of the Netherworld hits them all, the damage isn't where you want it to go - and so even though you can deal upwards 2000 damage with a single spell, it's not relevant enough.

[Wolfsburg]

CotN is the exact example of a spell thats too weak when you are a low level (because of low spell power), and too weak in the late game, where even with insane spell power you will not cause enough demises to compromise the enemy swarms.

Not a favorite, definately.

[yuritch]

The Sylvan example is a bit... wrong. Dragons and Druids don't do the main damage, it's first 3 tiers that matter. Consider this: both Sprites and War Dancers attack multiple enemies at once, have high Initiative AND high speed AND high numbers. So, if the enemy Ranger has Attack+Battle Frenzy+Tactics, Windstrider Boots (or that perk which gives +1 speed) and Necklace of the Bloody Claw (further +1 to damage per unit), it's not the Elves, Druids or Dragons you should be afraid of. Both the +1 speed and +1 damage artifacts are quite common on the maps.
If the enemy is Wyngaal, both Sprites and Dancers may well act twice before any of your units had a chance to act, killing a good portion of your force by then. Elves do LOW damage compared to that!
So that comes down to Sylvan army having several 'key stacks', which is why CotN is good against them (they have low health after all).

[konfeta]

Er, yuritch? The Emerald Dragons have 14 initiative and 9 speed, as 25+ attack stat advantage over the lowly tiers, and can attack 2 units.

You don't want these guys in your ranks. Especially considering that Sprites and Wardancers are cannon-fodder for your Elves early on, so their numbers aren't nearly as high as to be a comparable threat to the Dragons or Arcane Archers. Both of which are the ones likely to be at their full growth as opposed to the cannon-fodder.

I am not sure if killing High Druids lowers the spellboost from their Channel ability, but if it does, you also want these bastards dead ASAP.


I mean, yes, Spritres and Wardancers can do a lot of damage to similar tiered troops, but their pretty numers start losing their luster the second they need to attack high-defense stat targets. Arcane Archers, Elder Druids, and Emerald/Prismatic dragons, on the other hand, will annihilate your high tier forces and archers while you were busy wiping out the cannon fodder.

[yuritch]

Well, that depends heavily on week number. If the main battle happens on week 4-5, you won't have much Dragons... But you can have lots of Sprites and War Dancers (esp. if you've been careful not to lose too many, Sprites are easier to save now that they can be changed to Dryads who can resurrect themselves if there are Treants on the field). Granted, this won't do lots of damage against high-defense races, but against something like Inferno or even Dungeon...
Btw, spellpower boost from High Druids lasts at full strength till the last one of them is killed. So if you cannot kill them ALL in a couple of hits, better focus on other units. And Arcane Archers are too easily countered by magic. Confusion, Arcane Crystal, Blade Barrier, Deflect Missile, both 4th level Dark and all those spells that kick them back on the ATB (destruction with master of cold/lightning, Wasp Swarm, etc.). Chances are the enemy will have at least 1 of those...

[Banedon]

Well, that depends heavily on week number. If the main battle happens on week 4-5, you won't have much Dragons... But you can have lots of Sprites and War Dancers (esp. if you've been careful not to lose too many, Sprites are easier to save now that they can be changed to Dryads who can resurrect themselves if there are Treants on the field). Granted, this won't do lots of damage against high-defense races, but against something like Inferno or even Dungeon...
Btw, spellpower boost from High Druids lasts at full strength till the last one of them is killed. So if you cannot kill them ALL in a couple of hits, better focus on other units. And Arcane Archers are too easily countered by magic. Confusion, Arcane Crystal, Blade Barrier, Deflect Missile, both 4th level Dark and all those spells that kick them back on the ATB (destruction with master of cold/lightning, Wasp Swarm, etc.). Chances are the enemy will have at least 1 of those...

If a fight happens on week 5 there might be 3, possibly 5, Emerald Dragons on the battlefield. Against that, there might be (generously) 150 Sprites. Which is more dangerous?

Incidentally Sylvan players typically guard their Arcane Archer stack with all available defenses. This means Silver Unicorn magic resistance aura, no square to put Arcane Crystal and Blade Barrier on and possibly Magical Immunity - which counter-counters all the counters you mentioned except Deflect Missile.

[Jolly Joker]

I doubt you'll have 5 EMERALD Dragons in weeek 5. Green ones, possibly, but Emeralds? On easy maybe, but on easy you'll probably finish earlier. Not on hard and not on heroic.
I don't know about normal, though.
If it IS possible on normal, it still doesn't seem to make sense to base judgement on a diff level where the game is an exercise in logistics only for the more experienced player.

[Banedon]

I doubt you'll have 5 EMERALD Dragons in weeek 5. Green ones, possibly, but Emeralds? On easy maybe, but on easy you'll probably finish earlier. Not on hard and not on heroic.
I don't know about normal, though.
If it IS possible on normal, it still doesn't seem to make sense to base judgement on a diff level where the game is an exercise in logistics only for the more experienced player.

I took a look through the older topics and chanced on this ...

viewtopic.php?t=10079

Turns out it is possible, although:

1) That map had a Gold Mine.
2) That map had a Hill Fort.
3) I used a lot of saves and reloads.

I think you're right that you won't normally have 5 Emerald Dragons on the battlefield. But 3 is a definite possibility (which would still be vastly more dangerous than 150 Sprites), and depending on map 5 is possible as well.

[Elias_Maluco]

Puppet is way too strong and unfair, nothing comes close. Puppet is the reason I dont play with the orcs on heroic: cause what you can do to prevent (or dispel) puppet master when you got no cleasing, no magical immunity, no vampirism?

Puppet is overpowered, so I dont think there is a match here.

1 Puppet master

2 Deep freeze:
can be really effective if you got a high spellpower. Implosion is cool, but deep freeze gives you little less damage, but does a lot more.

3 Conjure Phoenix:
is a fucking tank if you got the spellpower and master of conjuration. Its also pretty fast, so you actually gets to use it a lot.

4 Vampirism:
ressurection and immunity to mind spells in one. Best thing agaisnt puppet

5 Ressurection:
if you have it, you will use it.

[sylvanllewelyn]

"Best spell" is not just during battle, but also creeping and development. My vote goes to Roasted Chicken.

Puppet master is overrated. You need very high spellpower to work, or else the unit is dragged back in the queue and the effect goes away before their turn even comes up. Frenzy works immediately and doesn't depend on spellpower. Plus wizards with MoTW can frenzy two units at once, nasty stuff.

[lumpoor]

Hmm, off-topic but wouldn't it be very effective to frenzy a war dancer?