WoG crashes when >5000 maps are present

[Psyringe]

Hi

Yesterday I went on a map collecting spree again, this time it raised the total number of h3m files in my Maps folder to about 6,500. I then found out that WoG crashed with an access violation whenever I clicked on New Game -> Scenario. Further analysis showed that I could prevent the crash when I reduced the number of h3m files to about 5,020. When I added a single additional h3m file, WoG crashed again. When I added the *same* file and also removed one other h3m file from the folder, there was no crash. Hence it is evident that this crash happens due to the number of h3m files present, and not due to a corrupt file.

Note: The number of 5,020 is not exact. Some h3m files are apparently ignored by the game (possibly because of illegal characters in the filename) and therefore do not count towards the limit. So the real limit is probably a bit lower - it might be 5,000 *valid* files. If you have slightly more than 5,000 h3m files and do not experience the crash, keep in mind that some of your files may be invalid and the number of *valid* h3m files in your Maps folder might still be less than the limit.

My guess is that WoG, when it reads the h3m files in the map folder, just makes an array of 5,000 entries, happily starts reading files, and crashes when the number of files exceeds the pre-defined array boundary. If so, then simply raising the number to (say) 10,000 would solve the problem.

The crash may be present in non-WoG versions of HoMM3 too - it probably is, but I haven't checked. However, WoG probably has the tools in place to fix the problem, therefore I'm mentioning the problem here.

The problem should be easily reproducible by duplicating an existing, working h3m file until you exceed the limit. This can be done quickly with a batch file. Nevertheless I'm willing to help anybody who wants to tackle the problem and needs some tests to be run. In case it helps, here is the WOGCRASHLOG.TXT:

Code: Select all

Time Stamp: Wed May 27 16:26:33 2009

Map Saved with: 

WoG Version: 3 . 58f
Built on Oct 24 2004

EIP = {0x00618813},  Access Violation. Attempt to {write} the inaccessible data at {0x05EE6028}

 The Latest Executed ERM Receiver:

Register Context:

EAX = 0x00000020
EBX = 0x0000138B
ECX = 0x0000B455
EDX = 0x00000000
ESI = 0x05EE6028
EDI = 0x05EE6028
EBP = 0x00227758
ESP = 0x00227614

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[ByteBandit]

Well, I suppose you could split your maps up into separate folders (I.E. 3000 maps in "Maps" and the remaining maps in "MapsI.") After you are tired of playing the maps in the first folder, you could rename that folder and then rename MapsI to "Maps" and then play that set.
This is the only solution I can think of to this problem, as this is the first time I have ever heard of it. It is weird, to be sure.

[Salamandre]

There is no problem, or a false problem. If you know what does the crash, why keeping so many maps. I guess only 100 of them are playable.

The solution is in the title, and you are the first person I hear in 10 Heroes years who has more than 50 maps.

[hobowu]

There is no problem, or a false problem. If you know what does the crash, why keeping so many maps. I guess only 100 of them are playable.

The solution is in the title, and you are the first person I hear in 10 Heroes years who has more than 50 maps.

50 maps?
RoE, AB, and SoD maps probably add up to more than 50...

[Psyringe]

Well, I suppose you could split your maps up into separate folders

Yep, that's what I did - I weeded out doubles and "similars" until I got beneath the file limit. It works (obviously ), but has the disadvantage of me needing some hours to organize the folders. Alternatively I could simply split my map folder arbitrarily, but it would of course be nicer to have all maps visible in the scenario selector. For example, yesterday I wanted to play a small solitaire WoG map. There aren't many of those around, and I don't know of any tool that can read and display the features of all maps at once (helping to find what one's looking for). Thus, if I split the map folder arbitrarily, I'd probably end up switching between these folders a lot, which is a bit unwieldy.

Of course, both methods do prevent the crash. Hence, fixing the hard-coded limit in the executable isn't mandatory, it just would be nice to have for packrats like me. And since it *might* be relatively easy to to fix for somenone with a bit of experience in reverse-engineering HoMM3, I put the matter up here.

this is the first time I have ever heard of it. It is weird, to be sure.

There will probably be more people running into that in the future. I know of several huge map packs that can be downloaded through various filesharing services, and combining the two largest packs already gets you above 5,000. My guess is that when HoMM3 gets the next popularity surge (due to either WoG 3.59 or HotA or HoMM6 being released), more people will look for map packs, find those, and run into the same problem. That's the second reason why I mentioned it here - I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else, and if people are running into this problem in the future, it'll be helpful to know that there's a hard-coded limit that currently can't be exceeded.

It's not as weird as it sounds btw, HoMM3 isn't the first game to suffer from such a problem. Morrowind is another popular example - even the official tech support pages mention that players should reduce the number of savegames in the respective folder, because of a very similar problem (memory corruption due to trying to process more data than the developers expected to be present).

There is no problem, or a false problem. If you know what does the crash, why keeping so many maps. I guess only 100 of them are playable.

Umm. Let me tackle the question in the middle first: Why keeping so many maps? That's easily answered. I really like user created maps. HoMM3 offers a very rich playing experience, and naturally different people will enjoy (and focus on) different aspects of gameplay. For me, that's handmade maps, because the random maps did get repetitive after a while, and I don't really enjoy multiplayer.

I also enjoy that there's such an abundance of hand-made maps to choose from. When I play a new game, I scroll through the list of available scenarios, read the descriptions, check the options, and then choose one. With this method I have found some great maps which, for some reason, never got as popular as they deserved. Of course, this approach requires the program to actually list and display information about all these maps, which is the reason why I do keep them all in the "Maps" folder. I don't see anything wrong with this approach, and I'm surprised that you apparently do.

Calling a reproducible crash a "false problem" because *your* way of enjoying HoMM3 isn't affected by it (and because you can't relate to an alternative way that is) doesn't sound very open-minded to me, so I kindly suggest broadening your horizon a bit. You may even find out about things that somehow managed to elude you for a decade. Claiming that only 0.5% of these handmade maps are playable is outright rude towards the people who spent hours creating those, though.

you are the first person I hear in 10 Heroes years who has more than 50 maps.

Well, then let me open your eyes. It may surprise you that a simple
Google search for "HoMM3 map pack" already leads to a couple of map packs, one of them containing more than 3,000 maps. Vary search terms or switch to a file search engine for even more results. Seeing that people made an effort to collect these maps, and that other people keep downloading them, your claim that you don't know of anybody with more than 50 maps seems to indicate that you probably ignored that part of the HoMM3 community rather than being a solid basis for assuming that barely anyone has more than 50 maps.

I'm not blaming you - as I said, HoMM3 offers a rich and diverse playing experience, and people focus on different aspects of it. For example, I don't play multiplayer, so I simply wouldn't know about the preferences and problems of the respective part of the community. I just wouldn't tell people who report multiplayer crashes that they are talking about "false problems". Their problems don't affect me, but they do affect *their* way of enjoying HoMM3, and I certainly won't impose my perspective on other people. HoMM3 is good enough to support several very different playing styles.


Anyway - I'm nt here to debate whether a crash is a "correct" or "false" problem. I'm here to report the crash, provide all information about it that I can, offer my help in fixing it, and hope that somebody has a look at it - especially since it might be easy to fix with a bit of reverse-engineering skill and experience. So, any takers?

[Salamandre]

It is not about being open minded but you being nitpick.

It is like saying: well, I need a doctor because I can't walk when my legs are handcuffed. You put 5000 maps in a directory which can handle barely 100 without taking forever to load, then ask for a fix. No one is going to fix that.
Just remove your maps and put one at once. It is a false problem still.

There are thousand other problems which need a fix before this one.

Calling a reproducible crash a "false problem" because *your* way of enjoying HoMM3 isn't affected by it (and because you can't relate to an alternative way that is) doesn't sound very open-minded to me, so I kindly suggest broadening your horizon a bit. You may even find out about things that somehow managed to elude you for a decade. Claiming that only 0.5% of these handmade maps are playable is outright rude towards the people who spent hours creating those, though.

I actually played most maps available. It is not because someone spent a few hours that his map is playable. Most are not, or not offering any challenge because bad balanced. Being exigent about maps quality is not a default.

I did not attack you on first post, just state that it is not a problem. But if you would like to debate about my WOG horizon, then we would need years to explain you first the basics.

[Psyringe]

Well, you're proving my point, although I wish you hadn't.

What you're saying is that the crash I mentioned is too unimportant to spend time fixing it, especially in the light of other problems that you deem more important. That's your prerogative, you're of course free to prioritize any possible fixes in any way that fits your preferences.

That doesn't make a reproducible crash a "false problem" though. It might be too unimportant for you. It might be a bit more worthwhile for others. I'd let the developers be the judge of that. I've been involved in several modding or reverse-engineering projects and I know very well that there's always a problem with some community members having difficulties with respecting the preferences of others - I've seen ugly flamewars of users who actively derided each others preferences. The lesson I learned from working on these projects is that it's pointless to judge other people's preferences. They are subjective by definition, there's no "correct" or "wrong" way to like a game.

You enjoy HoMM3 your way, and therefore arrive at your own wishlist of things you'd like fixed. Since having lots of handmade maps is totally unimportant for you, fixing the crash I mentioned is not on your wishlist. That's perfectly okay.

I enjoy HoMM3 my way, which is different from yours, therefore I arrive at a different wishlist for fixes. On my wishlist, a fix for this crash is somewhere in the middle - not too important because it can be circumvented, but still worth having a look since fixing it might be rather easy.

The difference between the two of us is that I accept us having different preferences, and respect yours, whereas you keep arguing that your preferences are the "right" ones and mine must be "wrong", or "nitpicks". That's what I said in my previous post, and that's what your answer (unfortunately) confirms.

Let's just say that if the WoG team fixes something that's low on *my* wishlist, I'll be happy for those that deemed that fix important. I certainly wouldn't call them nitpicky and I certainly wouldn't deny the existence of the problem in the first place.

You put 5000 maps in a directory which can handle barely 100 without taking forever to load

I'm sorry, but imho you're again taking your perspective to be absolute. Think a moment about it - the loading time might be dependent on hardware specs, might it not.

Please note also that I did never *ask* for a fix. I described the problem, *suggested* a solution, and offered my help.

But if you would like to debate about my WOG horizon, then we would need years to explain you first the basics.

Years to explain the basics ... you're leaving me speachless. Although, with an attitude like this, I can understand why it might be difficult to respect opinions different from one's own.

[Koni]

Seems to me you like to debate about a problem, which shouldn't be one. Why not use different folders for your 5000 thousand maps? For example one for "played already", one for "want to play next", one for "maybe I play in future" and one for "not interested to play ever" (which you could delete as well). There are so many solutions, why open a thread for that???

[Salamandre]

To enlarge our horizons.

[Psyringe]

There are so many solutions, why open a thread for that???

Because as said above, I haven't seen a solution or an analysis for this crash anywhere else. It took a bit of effort to analyze and double-check it, and I wanted to spare the next person who runs into the same problem from having to spend as much time on it.

When you *know* that there's a limit of 5,000 maps, then it's easy to circumvent it. If you *don't* know that, then it takes quite some experimenting to find the reason for the crash, it could be a single corrupt file as well or something different entirely. And as I explained, it's surprisingly easy to run into this problem if you just download and combine two large map packs that are easily accessible. So there will be others running into the same problem, and giving the next person a chance to learn about the problem without having to find it out by himself seemed like a good idea to me. But for that, I had to pass the knowledge about what's causing the crash, no?

I'm very thankful for the people who write FAQs, or offer technical help - there are some problems I'd never have solved if some kind soul hadn't posted a solution in a forum. Hence, when I find out about something that might be useful for others, I try to contribute. Good enough for you?

Also, as I said, there's a chance that the matter can be fixed rather easily, so that's another reason for making it known. Several modding or reverse-engineering projects I worked on started with similar posts, so suggesting a fix and offering my help wouldn't hurt - or so I thought.

[Koni]

Danke, jetzt wird mir dein Anliegen klar.
But it's very "uncommon" to me, that one manages and scrolls through about 5000 maps in the folder, which you use for chosing a map in game.

[Psyringe]

Danke, jetzt wird mir dein Anliegen klar.

Thanks. In hindsight, I probably should've been more clear about my intentions in the first post, this could have prevented some misunderstandings.

But it's very "uncommon" to me, that one manages and scrolls through about 5000 maps in the folder, which you use for chosing a map in game.

Apparently you're not the only one who thinks so. But for me, this method does have its rewards; from time to time I stumble across a gem that I wouldn't find if I relied on recommendations, reviews, or totally random draws. And I really enjoy the feeling of standing before an overwhelmingly *huge* assortment of lands to travel to when I pick a map to play.

[ByteBandit]

Okay. The situation being discussed here is obviously of importance to some loyalists who collect maps for HoMM3, including myself. Myself, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000+ maps in my maps folder. They include campaigns as well. So, this problem raises a red flag to me for the future of how many maps I can have eventually in my map folder.
Now, I belong to the WoG team, and I happened to see where Pol, another WoG team member, wrote to the team and asked the question if the problem involving crashes for an X amount of maps in the map folder could be corrected. The problem has been addressed to the WoG team, so if there is a way to correct it, they will. I'm sure Pol is keeping on top of the situation, and when he has all the information needed, he will let the community and others know of the results.
If there is no way to correct the situation, then alternative methods for the managing of maps and map folders will probably be the only solution. Let's hope that a small program can be implemented to correct this flaw.
Regarding the amount of maps that one collects for HoMM3. Being the Co-Owner of the HoMM3 Archives, I can personally say, that ther are well over hundreds of people, all over the world, who have easily over 3000 maps for the game. Be they good or bad, it does'nt matter. The fact is, they like to collect the maps for the game, and want to hold on to them for various reasons. And who could blame them? There are more maps for HoMm3/WoG than any of the other games in the series. And more being created every day. And with more and more HoMM3 fansites disappearing yearly, it just makes those maps even more valuable to the collector, thus, making them even more harder to find. To have around fifty maps in ones collection is okay, but to some, that just how many maps they may be able to download in one day.
There are more people who are absolutely passionate about their HoMM3 maps than meets the eye. Not just here at the RT, but worldwide. Pol and I, at the Archives, see it every week, the steady growth of HoMM3 mapseekers. Especially from Asia, where H3 maps are hard to come by for one reason or another. Map collecting IS a serious business.

[z1ac]

5000 maps?
Play 5 maps each week (I don't think anyone play that much) and you're busy for the next 20 years...

When you scroll them, 1 second per map is 1.5 hours so you obviously don't need them all in one place...
just make 2 folders alphabetically, 2500 in each folder, and in 10 years when you play out whole first folder, rename it and play the other one.

If you don't replay them, delete the ones you've played.
If you don't replay them, but you collect them, put them in another folder.

[ByteBandit]

As regard to the 5000+ maps and the crashing of the game, according to one of the members of the WoG team, it's an SoD problem as well. And after much thought given to the problem, it's hard to make the necessary code to correct the problem. So since it's in SoD as well as WoG, it's probably best to spilt up the maps one has into separate folders and work the problem that way.

[Storm-giant]

Playing 5000 once can take years of life...if you have SOO much maps be a bit organized and make subfolders with S,M,L&XL maps or something like that