Wow, nice walkthrough! This is probably one of the hardest maps in HoMM4! I only managed to beat it on Basic, and by using the Stealth skill! Even so i wouldn't have finished it if the Computer wasn't stupid enough to leave Yanathrae unprotected while i was still around (Pathfinding save the day.)
The rest of the campaign was pretty easy!
A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
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ThunderTitan
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A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
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A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
I have done the map several times, as specified by the walkthrough & other ways & I am not at all sure that I agree with the begining strategy. The key to winning is the green hero in the west must not visit the green tent too early. This hero starts very strong & he can take the green tent early & send an unbeatable army through the portal almost as you take the 1st town. In fact, I bet if I was playing the green hero I could take the required 1st town even before Tawni hits the mainland. Second, by-passing the 1st town only works if the green hero does not return to the town before you get there. If this happens the town is reasonably well built by this time & it has two heros tougher than Pete & Tawni. In this case taking out the 1st town works better because you can build more & attack the 2nd town when the hero is not there.
Luck in the first 2 months or so has a lot to do with how you do in this map. The designer should have given Pete or Tawni level 2 or even 3 Seamanship to make the map more do-able on a consistent basis. Putting tougher creatures in front of the green tent is another possibility.
Also, if you concentrate on giving Pete scouting skills & Tawni combat skills things seem to go better. You need to try to keep moving fast yet limiting your max level to 12 means that Pete & Tawni have to be somewhat lucky in the skills initially offered. I do not think that Stealth helps much in the 1st map & generally I tried to avoid it. Pathfinder & Seamanship seems to help more.
I have often wondered though if the designer felt there was some way to do the map by concentrating on stealth. (Otherwise, why did they give Tawni & Pete stealth?) If so, I have not found the strategy.
Once you get the mainland, I found you could grind things out.
Edited on Sun, Mar 29 2009, 23:22 by Falstaff
Luck in the first 2 months or so has a lot to do with how you do in this map. The designer should have given Pete or Tawni level 2 or even 3 Seamanship to make the map more do-able on a consistent basis. Putting tougher creatures in front of the green tent is another possibility.
Also, if you concentrate on giving Pete scouting skills & Tawni combat skills things seem to go better. You need to try to keep moving fast yet limiting your max level to 12 means that Pete & Tawni have to be somewhat lucky in the skills initially offered. I do not think that Stealth helps much in the 1st map & generally I tried to avoid it. Pathfinder & Seamanship seems to help more.
I have often wondered though if the designer felt there was some way to do the map by concentrating on stealth. (Otherwise, why did they give Tawni & Pete stealth?) If so, I have not found the strategy.
Once you get the mainland, I found you could grind things out.
Edited on Sun, Mar 29 2009, 23:22 by Falstaff
A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
PS: Split Pete & Tawni up right after the learning stone & put Pete on the ship & have him meet Tawni at the Seaman hat or vice-versa). It saves a few a few critical moves at the start.
Re: A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
Err, did you really write that? It doesn't sound like you at all...ThunderTitan wrote:Wow, nice walkthrough! This is probably one of the hardest maps in HoMM4! I only managed to beat it on Basic, and by using the Stealth skill! Even so i wouldn't have finished it if the Computer wasn't stupid enough to leave Yanathrae unprotected while i was still around (Pathfinding save the day.)
The rest of the campaign was pretty easy!
A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
An alternative approach to get a toehold with this difficult scenario. This applies to Advanced difficulty, which is the lowest you can go and still have the AI perform as well as possible (that's damning with faint praise).
To start, note that you can use the starting scouting ability to inspect the skeleton. If the artifact doesn't help you offensively, restart without taking a step. My favorite is the War Sling--starting off with a ranged attack is a big boost. (You can skip the restart if you prefer to just take what you get, you should still be able to complete this strategy--it will just be a bit tougher and you'll likely need some good luck along the way).
Second, the Seaman's Hat is a red herring. Skip it if you want to live. Its only value is getting on and off the bandit island, but since you're going to skip that too, it is useless at this point. Going after the Seaman's Hat will cost you about 2.5 crucial days getting to landfall. In that time, whatever bandit reinforcements you pick up from the island will be crushed by the computer's rapid town buildup. So, skip the hat and skip the bandit dwelling.
Now, you have yet to take your first step. Drop a bandit from your heroes' army. Remember that bandits have advanced stealth, meaning they can walk past level one creatures. Walk your bandit directly to the skeleton, pick up your artifact and return directly to the heroes (skip the gold, you'll get it later). Make sure to actually give the war sling to Tawni. Pete, despite being one level lower than Tawni is a tougher hero and should be used for melee and to protect Tawni.
Now, hit the Window of the Magi, and pick up your additional troops on the way to the experience stone. I'd suggest Pathfinding for Pete, it will help you speed to your destination once you hit land. Then get in the boat, and leave your orphaned bandit and the unflagged sulfur mine behind (it can wait). On the next few turns the bandit you leave behind can grab the treasure chest and the Seaman's Hat and return to the north tip of the island to await a future pickup.
On your heroes' way north in the boat, you'll be forced a bit to the west as you try to maintain your course. Otherwise, don't deviate from due north. If there is flotsam directly in your path, go ahead and pick it up, but otherwise keep moving north. Now, you'll see several floating chests on this trip, which you can inspect with your scouting skill (if they're too far away to inspect, they're too far away to chase). If they contain gold, skip them. If they contain an artifact you think can help you take the towns, go ahead and grab it. You do have a little leeway on the journey without costing yourself an additional day.
Near the end of the voyage, you'll find that you've been pushed west by the island to the east. Once you've been pushed west as far as necessary to clear the island, immediately sail east-northeast. Your goal is to land a few steps away from the orc dwelling.
If you've done this as prescribed, you should be on land, with a full load of movement (the turn post-landfall) on day 7 of week 1. Now grab the orcs, hit the trough and move as directly as possible to the first barbarian town (not the chaos town to the far west). The only fight you need to engage in on the way there is with the barbarians parked in front of the non-magic skills building. Take advantage of every trough in your path, but if you have to stray more than a couple of steps, skip it.
One other note before moving on from landfall. Drop a single bandit at landfall and put him back in the boat. Now he can go pick up all the flotsam and chests, as well as numerous items on the islands that are only guarded by level ones.
At the end of the day before you can reach the town, you should be able to inspect it. I've used this approach several times and it's always lightly guarded. However, expect an absent green hero to try to desperately cut you off before you can get there. Take him out if you can get him and the town in the same move.
Once you have the barbarian town, go pick up the medusae to the north of the chaos town. They will make taking your second town much easier. The chaos town is neutral, so whatever troops it has when you land is what you'll face whenever you get to it. That's why skipping it initially is the way to go.
If you're lucky, there's about a 50-50 chance the chaos town won't have medusae and will be a breeze to take. Otherwise, you're going to take some losses but should still prevail with relative ease.
Now you have two towns within the first two weeks. I found it was much easier after getting that first dragon than spending all that gold on the thunderbirds. There is a trade market in the area which you can use to cheaply acquire the resources you need for your first black dragon.
Once you have the dragon, send it alone with Tawni (who has favored Seamanship to this point) and destroy pretty much everything accessible from your boat (which should return near the chaos town after going down to pick up the Seaman's Hat).
Meanwhile Pete can clean up the main area with medusae, orcs and nightmares (awesome for disabling multiple stacks--I used up to four slots with a single nightmare in each).
You can track your vulnerability throughout using the Thieves Guild from the scenario menu. If you stay close in levels, you should be able to clear the northern mainland in relative peace.
To start, note that you can use the starting scouting ability to inspect the skeleton. If the artifact doesn't help you offensively, restart without taking a step. My favorite is the War Sling--starting off with a ranged attack is a big boost. (You can skip the restart if you prefer to just take what you get, you should still be able to complete this strategy--it will just be a bit tougher and you'll likely need some good luck along the way).
Second, the Seaman's Hat is a red herring. Skip it if you want to live. Its only value is getting on and off the bandit island, but since you're going to skip that too, it is useless at this point. Going after the Seaman's Hat will cost you about 2.5 crucial days getting to landfall. In that time, whatever bandit reinforcements you pick up from the island will be crushed by the computer's rapid town buildup. So, skip the hat and skip the bandit dwelling.
Now, you have yet to take your first step. Drop a bandit from your heroes' army. Remember that bandits have advanced stealth, meaning they can walk past level one creatures. Walk your bandit directly to the skeleton, pick up your artifact and return directly to the heroes (skip the gold, you'll get it later). Make sure to actually give the war sling to Tawni. Pete, despite being one level lower than Tawni is a tougher hero and should be used for melee and to protect Tawni.
Now, hit the Window of the Magi, and pick up your additional troops on the way to the experience stone. I'd suggest Pathfinding for Pete, it will help you speed to your destination once you hit land. Then get in the boat, and leave your orphaned bandit and the unflagged sulfur mine behind (it can wait). On the next few turns the bandit you leave behind can grab the treasure chest and the Seaman's Hat and return to the north tip of the island to await a future pickup.
On your heroes' way north in the boat, you'll be forced a bit to the west as you try to maintain your course. Otherwise, don't deviate from due north. If there is flotsam directly in your path, go ahead and pick it up, but otherwise keep moving north. Now, you'll see several floating chests on this trip, which you can inspect with your scouting skill (if they're too far away to inspect, they're too far away to chase). If they contain gold, skip them. If they contain an artifact you think can help you take the towns, go ahead and grab it. You do have a little leeway on the journey without costing yourself an additional day.
Near the end of the voyage, you'll find that you've been pushed west by the island to the east. Once you've been pushed west as far as necessary to clear the island, immediately sail east-northeast. Your goal is to land a few steps away from the orc dwelling.
If you've done this as prescribed, you should be on land, with a full load of movement (the turn post-landfall) on day 7 of week 1. Now grab the orcs, hit the trough and move as directly as possible to the first barbarian town (not the chaos town to the far west). The only fight you need to engage in on the way there is with the barbarians parked in front of the non-magic skills building. Take advantage of every trough in your path, but if you have to stray more than a couple of steps, skip it.
One other note before moving on from landfall. Drop a single bandit at landfall and put him back in the boat. Now he can go pick up all the flotsam and chests, as well as numerous items on the islands that are only guarded by level ones.
At the end of the day before you can reach the town, you should be able to inspect it. I've used this approach several times and it's always lightly guarded. However, expect an absent green hero to try to desperately cut you off before you can get there. Take him out if you can get him and the town in the same move.
Once you have the barbarian town, go pick up the medusae to the north of the chaos town. They will make taking your second town much easier. The chaos town is neutral, so whatever troops it has when you land is what you'll face whenever you get to it. That's why skipping it initially is the way to go.
If you're lucky, there's about a 50-50 chance the chaos town won't have medusae and will be a breeze to take. Otherwise, you're going to take some losses but should still prevail with relative ease.
Now you have two towns within the first two weeks. I found it was much easier after getting that first dragon than spending all that gold on the thunderbirds. There is a trade market in the area which you can use to cheaply acquire the resources you need for your first black dragon.
Once you have the dragon, send it alone with Tawni (who has favored Seamanship to this point) and destroy pretty much everything accessible from your boat (which should return near the chaos town after going down to pick up the Seaman's Hat).
Meanwhile Pete can clean up the main area with medusae, orcs and nightmares (awesome for disabling multiple stacks--I used up to four slots with a single nightmare in each).
You can track your vulnerability throughout using the Thieves Guild from the scenario menu. If you stay close in levels, you should be able to clear the northern mainland in relative peace.
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ThunderTitan
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Re: A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
Hey, when i don't know something i don't pretend i do...Angelspit wrote:>>Err, did you really write that? It doesn't sound like you at all...
It's just that it's rare for me not to know something...
...
Of course there's also the weird Lok: Defiance Elder God end fight syndrome i seem to have... tried about 10 times to beat it, gave up for a few years, then went back and finished in on the first go and very easily... so easily that i have no clue why i couldn't do it the first time...
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti
Alt-0128: €
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti
Alt-0128: €
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Wheeler Dealer
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- Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
A Pirate's Daughter, Champion, some excerpts from my journal. Once again, the Champion Level seems to be more of a problem for the AI than for me.
Week 1, I restarted until I got a useful artifact, settled on a Warlord's Ring, the only ranged weapon I was offered was a David's Sling. Sent a bandit to retrieve the ring, got lucky with an Elven Mail in the chest! Defeated the pirates guarding the Sulphur mine, claimed it and boarded, all on day one. Headed north without waiting for the Seaman's Hat. Dropped off single bandits on islands twice to gather/explore. May have cost me a turn landing (day 6).
Week 2, the closest town was too strong. Circled CCW to the town at (117,52) which I took on day 4, week 2.
Week 4, I finally circled back and took the port town.
Week 9, I still can't engage the scores of Cyclops who guard several important locations w/o unacceptable casualties.
Week 10, took another neutral town in the NE. Both main heroes maxed out, I've hired 2 sorcerers with the intent to split the main heroes.
Week 11, Putting my strongest army back together so I can take out several stacks with scores of cyclops in each.
Week 12, assembled Tawni, 2 sorcerers (who could cast confusion), a nightmare, 3 Black Dragons, 113 harpies and 37 Cyclops. I was fine as long as the neutrals didn't get 2 random morale boosts. One of my sorcerers maxed out!
Week 13, I cleared all the cyclops stacks, the 67 Thunderbirds are still a problem.
Week 14, Tawni exploring the sea while Pete guards the homeland.
Week 15, Pete took the 74 Thunderbirds with a L12 Fireguard (confusion), a L8 Reaver, 8 Black Dragons, 87 medusae and 2 single nightmares. Lost the 2 nightmares. I have six L12 heroes.
Stupid, I noted Blue Chain as Purple and wasted much time.
Week 16, I captured a preserve past the blue chain. Blue landed an army in my NE. Pete is circling in from the water, I have another army on land hurrying that way.
Week 17, a second larger Blue army landed, 13 Faerie Dragons, 30 unicorns, a L14 hero, etc. Pete caught them and managed a flawless victory even though I expected significant casualties. My smaller army beat Blue's smaller army losing 1 Thunderbird.
Tawni met Green's main army (I hope), won but lost 7 TBs (nearly half) and 2 Cyclops. The purple tent is protected by 28 BDs!!! Tawni got ambushed sailing too close to an island. There were about 15 Farie Dragons split into two stacks and they both cast Lightning on my General before he could gulp a PoI. Now I've got to get him to a town and I'm far from home looking for the Orange Keymaster.
Week 18, Two big battles for Tawni, lost 8 TBs but captured another stronghold. Got her general back. One big battle for Pete defending my Preserve. Pete captured another preserve near the south edge of the map.
Week 19, I lost the stronghold on the central island. The enemy continues to attack, guerilla style. Pete took Yanathrae.
Week 20, Captured Blue's last town.
Week 21, Green recaptured the island stronghold, again! I defeated 33 BDs guarding the purple keymaster tent. For TBs to beat BDs w/o significant casualties I needed First Strike/Snake Strike.
Week 22, finished at 6,2,4. At the end I had eight L12 heroes and 10 order lords at about L6. XP is not a problem.
Week 1, I restarted until I got a useful artifact, settled on a Warlord's Ring, the only ranged weapon I was offered was a David's Sling. Sent a bandit to retrieve the ring, got lucky with an Elven Mail in the chest! Defeated the pirates guarding the Sulphur mine, claimed it and boarded, all on day one. Headed north without waiting for the Seaman's Hat. Dropped off single bandits on islands twice to gather/explore. May have cost me a turn landing (day 6).
Week 2, the closest town was too strong. Circled CCW to the town at (117,52) which I took on day 4, week 2.
Week 4, I finally circled back and took the port town.
Week 9, I still can't engage the scores of Cyclops who guard several important locations w/o unacceptable casualties.
Week 10, took another neutral town in the NE. Both main heroes maxed out, I've hired 2 sorcerers with the intent to split the main heroes.
Week 11, Putting my strongest army back together so I can take out several stacks with scores of cyclops in each.
Week 12, assembled Tawni, 2 sorcerers (who could cast confusion), a nightmare, 3 Black Dragons, 113 harpies and 37 Cyclops. I was fine as long as the neutrals didn't get 2 random morale boosts. One of my sorcerers maxed out!
Week 13, I cleared all the cyclops stacks, the 67 Thunderbirds are still a problem.
Week 14, Tawni exploring the sea while Pete guards the homeland.
Week 15, Pete took the 74 Thunderbirds with a L12 Fireguard (confusion), a L8 Reaver, 8 Black Dragons, 87 medusae and 2 single nightmares. Lost the 2 nightmares. I have six L12 heroes.
Stupid, I noted Blue Chain as Purple and wasted much time.
Week 16, I captured a preserve past the blue chain. Blue landed an army in my NE. Pete is circling in from the water, I have another army on land hurrying that way.
Week 17, a second larger Blue army landed, 13 Faerie Dragons, 30 unicorns, a L14 hero, etc. Pete caught them and managed a flawless victory even though I expected significant casualties. My smaller army beat Blue's smaller army losing 1 Thunderbird.
Tawni met Green's main army (I hope), won but lost 7 TBs (nearly half) and 2 Cyclops. The purple tent is protected by 28 BDs!!! Tawni got ambushed sailing too close to an island. There were about 15 Farie Dragons split into two stacks and they both cast Lightning on my General before he could gulp a PoI. Now I've got to get him to a town and I'm far from home looking for the Orange Keymaster.
Week 18, Two big battles for Tawni, lost 8 TBs but captured another stronghold. Got her general back. One big battle for Pete defending my Preserve. Pete captured another preserve near the south edge of the map.
Week 19, I lost the stronghold on the central island. The enemy continues to attack, guerilla style. Pete took Yanathrae.
Week 20, Captured Blue's last town.
Week 21, Green recaptured the island stronghold, again! I defeated 33 BDs guarding the purple keymaster tent. For TBs to beat BDs w/o significant casualties I needed First Strike/Snake Strike.
Week 22, finished at 6,2,4. At the end I had eight L12 heroes and 10 order lords at about L6. XP is not a problem.
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cjleeagain
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Re: A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
I remember playing this on Champion, and having such a pain. It took me 6 months or longer, can't remember.
Awesome thing about HOMM is that even more than 20 years later, I am still learning something about this game. Wheeler Dealer had 2 sorcerers in Week 12. And I didn't think of that! I could have saved myself so much pain had I hired an extra sorcerer. Just one more Confusion caster WILL turn the tide. (btw, I did have spare heroes, just that at week 12 I didn't put three heroes in the same team because I was too stuck in the bad habit of assuming not enough experience is available.)
I used fewer heroes, which I guess was a bad idea if you are playing on Champion. Experience is super rich on this map.
Awesome thing about HOMM is that even more than 20 years later, I am still learning something about this game. Wheeler Dealer had 2 sorcerers in Week 12. And I didn't think of that! I could have saved myself so much pain had I hired an extra sorcerer. Just one more Confusion caster WILL turn the tide. (btw, I did have spare heroes, just that at week 12 I didn't put three heroes in the same team because I was too stuck in the bad habit of assuming not enough experience is available.)
I used fewer heroes, which I guess was a bad idea if you are playing on Champion. Experience is super rich on this map.
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MudElemental
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Re: A Pirate's Daughter → A Pirate's Daughter
Playing on Equilibris mod, I made beeline from starting point to the Chaos town on the north. At the time didn't even stop for gold chest or sulfur mine. This way I got there before Green barbarians could conquer it, which was a common problem for me in the past.
The map was surpriningly easy, reasonably steady advance by coast to the east, then by sea south, and conquer elves basically as soon as getting to tents.
Pete was on Pathfinding, Chaos and very basic Life for healing, with added Nobility (because why not). Tawni went Tactics, Combat, as well as (rather low, but still) Nature and Death.
Combo of Slayer and Snake Strike on Thunderbirds did wonders.
The map was surpriningly easy, reasonably steady advance by coast to the east, then by sea south, and conquer elves basically as soon as getting to tents.
Pete was on Pathfinding, Chaos and very basic Life for healing, with added Nobility (because why not). Tawni went Tactics, Combat, as well as (rather low, but still) Nature and Death.
Combo of Slayer and Snake Strike on Thunderbirds did wonders.
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