Good Bye Nival?

[Asheera]

Where do those statistics come from?

Somehow I get the feeling that most those that voted against Nival are those that didn't like H5's setting and the butchering of the old universes, but that wasn't Nival's 'fault' at all, but Ubi's.

[HodgePodge]

Where do those statistics come from?

Somehow I get the feeling that most those that voted against Nival are those that didn't like H5's setting and the butchering of the old universes, but that wasn't Nival's 'fault' at all, but Ubi's.

I'm all for ditching Ubi too.

[Angelspit]

Getting rid of the old universe was understandable. It would be easier to get a degree in medicine than mastering the old Might and Magic lore: new fans would have been confused and old ones would have been offended by any inconsistency.

[Avonu]

Yeah, right.
No one have any serious problem if Ubisoft only create new world with new story. But scrapping all previous universe and lore for doing that?

Well, on the other hand:
People destroy what they don't understand - or something like that - and Ubisoft is perfect example of this.

[Corlagon]

It would be easier to get a degree in medicine than mastering the old Might and Magic lore:

I'll be calling Harvard Medical School tomorrow morning.

new fans would have been confused and old ones would have been offended by any inconsistency.

Better than the way it is now, then - both new and old fans are confused and offended by inconsistencies at every turn.

[Edwardas 3]

Where do those statistics come from?

There's link in opening post to the thread with the pull on the first page

[Lepastur]

"It would be easier to get a degree in medicine than mastering the old Might and Magic lore:"

-> I'll be calling Harvard Medical School tomorrow morning.



"new fans would have been confused and old ones would have been offended by any inconsistency."

->Better than the way it is now, then - both new and old fans are confused and offended by inconsistencies at every turn.



rontfl lol You're the master, Corlagon! X-DDD

[ThunderTitan]

>>Whatever we might think or not the pull on official game site<<

That's the worst source ever... as reliable as a poll here when it comes to that.

[Edwardas 3]

''That's the worst source ever... as reliable as a poll here when it comes to that.''

I am afraid it is not,in fact it is as an ordinary poll as

it is.
Edited on Wed, Feb 11 2009, 14:31 by Edwardas 3

[Tress]

Getting rid of the old universe was understandable. It would be easier to get a degree in medicine than mastering the old Might and Magic lore: new fans would have been confused and old ones would have been offended by any inconsistency.

Yeah, right.
No one have any serious problem if Ubisoft only create new world with new story. But scrapping all previous universe and lore for doing that?

Personally i believe that rebooting mm world was a good thing. 3do/nwc really screwed their own lore with hmm4/mm9. In fact they partially rebooted their own lore with destroying old world to get rid of old lore and be able to create new one from near blank page. Also MM universe didnt really had solid lore to begin with. It had MANY inconsistencies( like how Gelu regained sword at hmm4 start) and countless other. Personally i think that creating Axeoth was crude workaround to make reboot. What ubisoft did was partialy same. Even more they made mm lore more serious. Tone in Dark messiah was much darker than in any previous games.

[Corlagon]

It had MANY inconsistencies( like how Gelu regained sword at hmm4 start)

But he never lost it, so how's that inconsistent? I never understood why some have problems with H4's storyline. On the contrary, it didn't have any inconsistencies whatsoever, aside from one confusion in Gauldoth's campaign on the Kreegans. MM9 was different but its plot was almost unrelated so it didn't contradict or "screw" anything.

Besides Dark Messiah's plot was a joke. To me, rather than being more serious it was simply more gory. There was already "darkness" and "seriousness" in the setting, just reread the narrative in the campaigns of Armageddon's Blade and SoD. It beats DM's blood-and-guts atmosphere any day. But unlike Heroes IV, Heroes V's plot certainly didn't seem to take itself seriously in any way to me

And while there were about thirty original universe games, there've only been two Ashan games yet I can point out ten major storyline inconsistencies in Ubi's storyline straight off the bat.

[Tress]

But he never lost it, so how's that inconsistent?

Well he does in last chapter of chronicles. Tarnum confiscates it from him to destroy both of them.( not to mention 2 sword thing is cliche as hell by itself, even more considering that world destroying artifact was just freshly made while other was ancient blade...)
And plot and spell system was half stolen from MTG(world destroying-incidentally MTG world moved from chapter in really similar way and really at the same time, not to mention spell schools.)
Well story ubsioft mm vs nwc mm world- that's matter of taste. After homm3 sod (chronicles and hmm4...)apart from half dead story i didn't like any of them. Some were simply butchering old characters(magnus) and giving us and pulling new ones that are supposed to be related to old ones out of thin air(lysander). I wont even comment addons. There was hardly any plot.
Old games had way more inconsistencies imo than ubi version, Ofc ubi created world wasn't without flaws(not even close) but imo story writers tried to make more serious game.
Personally i think if ubi would buy mm world after hmm3/mm7 and rebooted it then to new concept i would be unhappy, dropping homm4/mm9 world was good choice.It was already notable that different ppl worked for homm4 plot( even alot of remaining heroes bios were lot different than mm3 versions.) and mm9 plot apart from nearly easter egg appearance of prince and animal named cult didn't even suggested that its even mm game so dropping it was good choice.

[Corlagon]

Well he does in last chapter of chronicles. Tarnum confiscates it from him to destroy both of them.

Not if you don't fight him. Wouldn't have been better if he didn't have the Blade at all, eh? It's flawed to consider scenario design and gameplay elements like the hero bios part of the storyline. When you're exploring Antagarich in MM7, you don't see Gem Ponds and Learning Stones all across the land, because it's a Might and Magic game, not Heroes.

The old games didn't have more inconsistencies than these ones. MM7 linked to MM3, Heroes I linked to MM1, etc etc, and they did it quite well. Geez, even MM7 mentions the main villain of MM1. Whether there are inconsistencies isn't a matter of opinion, it's one of fact.

For things to be inconsistent they would have to contradict something and Heroes IV simply didn't do that, it only expanded. Magnus may have been good in MM7 but his "transformation" is clearly explained in the H4 story. The text is there.

But by no means am I trying to force anyone to like or understand the original universe. Hey, if your taste can reasonably handle a story about dragons hatching in space and creating creatures for no reason, coupled with lines like "Yes. Yeees! I have done it! Me!" and "What perfect timing. I was just about to put the kettle on", Ashan certainly is the ideal setting for you.

[Tress]

Tbh dont really remember if fighting gelu was objective, was long time ago, but anyway that's quit a flaw in storyline in my eyes.

When you're exploring Antagarich in MM7, you don't see Gem Ponds and Learning Stones all across the land, because it's a Might and Magic game, not Heroes.

I have zero problems that mm maps in no way represent homm maps(no learining stones and such), after all its for game play purpose, ( although wasn't happy that for some odd reason bracada from snowy mountain theme turns into desert theme much like homm5 wizard version) and it suggest that story writters dont really burden themselves with task to perfectly fit homm and mm storylines perfectly together(there is alot of that, bracada is just an example- another one would be that according to storyline warlocks are almost exclusvly male(while sorcerers were female) and in homm 3 Sephinroth(according to her bio) was exclusivly only warlock female while in mm7 all warlocks are females).
While map features might not be conisdered as something to watch by character bioses should be considered as part of lore and inconsistency between homm3 and 4 for same heroes isnt really good. Also i understand that when nwc made homm1 they didnt thought much for a plot and just used same character appearances as in old mm games but still using lord hart from hmm1 to hmm3 and yog(who were suposed to be born in other far far land and at least should be wizard at that time) without reasonable explanation(gem at least got youth fountain) could also be considered as inconsistency
As for old mm games, I really liked that they kept to same story for five games and managed to refer to them even in 7. Only thing i disliked was that same character names and appearances were overused(sandro,yog, in mm4-5 and then in homm1, while obviously they are meant as different characters)

As for homm5 - Dragons as gods, dont see anything bad there. There is alot of ppl in this world that are really sure that someone made earth and people in just a few days. That part of ubisofts storyline isnt anything that should be frowned upon imo. Yes cant disagree that alot of dialogues and text is sometimes cliche and sound pathetic, but overall storyline wasn't that bad.

[ThunderTitan]

>>Yes cant disagree that alot of dialogues and text is sometimes cliche and sound pathetic, but overall storyline wasn't that bad.<<

So it was only the story itself, that was bad, not the ideas...

The problem with the dragons is the same problem H3 had... dragon overload...

Also, the immortal guy in H4 wasn't bad... he was a well intentioned extremist... http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dExtremist

Actually someone should add him on the page.

As for Lysander, it's funny how i just read this this morning: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7881652.stm so him being related to them isn't that unlikely... especially when it comes to nobles (can you say inbreeding?)

And i was under the impression that AB wasn't new, it was just disassembled a long time ago.

[CloudRiderX]

Someone who hasn't been participating in this conversation just popping in to let you know the focus of the discussion has gone slightly off topic relating to the post.



Have a nice day!

[ThunderTitan]

How unusual... that almost never happens..

[astral76minor]

The new developer from Hungary should spend time making a multiplayer campaign mode for H6. This is something that would bring the game to a new level since most games that sell now are made for multiplayer madness. In addition, besides single player mode, I ultimately agree that H6 would be nothing without an excellent map editor. All in all the old lore of H2-H5 should be preserved. Ubisofts issues with H5 had to do with patience and complexity. Their programmers simply did not have the resources to make all the necessary patches. Heroes 5 is an unpolished work, and in H6 let's never go through this kind of hassle again.....

[ThunderTitan]

Yeah... that's a nice dream...

[ByteBandit]

Angelspit wrote regarding the old universe:

"new fans would have been confused and old ones would have been offended by any inconsistency."

You know? This is probably true given the gap between the release of HoMM IV and HoMM V. I almost forgot them by then too. And I would've just been glad to see the series continue at this point. And besides, if the old universe were included, there would still be arguements about its purity-good and/or bad.