Good Bye Nival?

[Bandobras Took]

>>And yes I know H5 is very similar to H3, and the fact that it is more popular than H4 proves my point that most people are simply nostalgic and won't accept any major change in terms of gameplay.

No, it proves nothing of the sort. I like H5 better than H4 because combat is on the whole more balanced, the unique racial abilities are cool, and the skill system is funner.

It has nothing to do with whether the game plays like H3, H2, or even the first Heroes game. Inicidentally, Heroes 2 represented an even more major change in gameplay than Heroes 4, yet the fans accepted and endorsed it.

[ThunderTitan]

H5 is still way more popular than H4.

What evidence do you base that on?

[PhoenixReborn]

You could start by looking at the topics and posts numbers on this fourm.

None of it matters, heroes 6 will be something new again.

[Pitsu]

You could start by looking at the topics and posts numbers on this fourm.
.

Bad idea. Or you should dig out the old RT from somewhere and count the H4 threads from there.

[Angelspit]

Bad idea. Or you should dig out the old RT from somewhere and count the H4 threads from there.

Unfortunately, it's very dead.

[Asheera]

"What evidence do you base that on?"

Is that a joke? I even think H5 is more popular than H3 these days (don't know how it was H3 before TotE was launched) - just check the activity in the HC forums, ToH, and such things.

Sure H3 may still have been played more, because it's old (and has some years in advantage), but I'm saying that H5 TotE is doing pretty well.

[jeff]

"What evidence do you base that on?"

Is that a joke? I even think H5 is more popular than H3 these days (don't know how it was H3 before TotE was launched) - just check the activity in the HC forums, ToH, and such things.

Sure H3 may still have been played more, because it's old (and has some years in advantage), but I'm saying that H5 TotE is doing pretty well.

Again that proves nothing, the few times I’ve gone to the UBI board over the last few months, you might as well stick a fork in it; while the old 3DO boards were very active right up to the time the plug was pulled. So forum activity is not now nor ever has been a proof of popularity. It just shows how active a small portion of the over all player population can be. Sales can even be deceiving as I and many H-IV fans bought H-V, but it has killed many of our interest in the franchise. H-IV did the same for others, we really don’t need to go down this road again there are far too many threads and posts on this topic. Arguing it again is not going to change my mind or any H-IV or H-V fans’ minds. So can we please move on and hope whoever takes over for Nival does a better job. Unfortunately since UBI still owns it I don’t think it will matter who picks it up, it is doomed.

[PhoenixReborn]

Unfortunately since UBI still owns it I don’t think it will matter who picks it up, it is doomed.

There is no reason to think that. It's a complete unknown.

[Lepastur]

I guess Jeff meant that Ubi has some responsibility about Heroes V, due to their marketing targets and their sales strategy. All bad from Heroes V are not Nival's fault, because the one who gives the project's charge is also guilty somehow. Now Ubi are seeking cheapness over quality, as always did, and by this way any game is doomed.

[Pitsu]

I even think H5 is more popular than H3 these days (don't know how it was H3 before TotE was launched) - just check the activity in the HC forums, ToH, and such things.

Alright, perhaps you can translate me the last, 2 months old, news piece from ToH? I mean comparison of that 5000 with the statistics of old seasons found at ToH History. Without participating there myself, i must be missing something. Here is the quote:

A slow going heroes5 finally has 5000+ games played in ToH, which is nice to see.

[Jolly Joker]

Switching to a smaller company may lead to a complete desaster, but it could be a chance as well.

With 5 HoMM games underway there will always be those who'll miss something or dislike this or that.

A small developer may actually try and go back to the basics, making a smaller, TIGHTER game, if you know what I mean, concentrate on BASICS, some changes in the game that were actually "forgotten" when they did 3 and overdone or not done the right way when they made 4, to come up with a satisfactory way to balance the might with the magic.

You know, the pearl you always look for - the compact, but immersive game that screams for a successor that simply delivers MORE.
In short, maybe a small developer would actually have the guts to make a comparatively small, but completely overhauled game.
A new Heroes 1 so to speak; a point from which to start anew.

[ThunderTitan]

Small dev = Ubi walking all over them... i mean look what happened to KotOR 2, and those guys where former Bioware.


@Asheera

Yeah... i thought so... ppl don't talk about the older game as much... i wonder why.

[Bandobras Took]

>>and those guys where former Bioware.

Slight correction -- those guys were former Black Isle.

[Asheera]

@Pitsu:

"Alright, perhaps you can translate me the last, 2 months old, news piece from ToH? I mean comparison of that 5000 with the statistics of old seasons found at ToH History."

You are right, and as I said, H3 may have been more popular than H5 at its time, when H5 didn't even exist. That's simply not fair a comparison. Products should be compared in the same timeline, when both exist.

Just because Windows 95 was splendid at its time compared with other Operating Systems doesn't mean it is better than XP. XP didn't probably have the huge success Windows 95 had at its time, but it is still way better.

Let's take a simple comparison (fictional, these are not actual Heroes games): There is Heroes 1, and there is Heroes 2. Heroes 1 is the first TBS with complex graphics ever made (let's say there were only text-based games before). People simply love it at its time, it's one of the best game ever made. Then Heroes 2 comes out, which only adds some towns and creatures. It is most definitely not as 'attractive' as H1 was when it was first released since it just adds more content, nothing revolutionary like graphics (when there were only text-games), but it is still better (how couldn't it be? more content -> better, no doubt)

And in conclusion, the fact that H5 is more popular these days than H3 means that it is better overall (I mean overall, obviously, since tastes differ - I understand people who prefer H4 over any other heroes games, not saying they have weird taste or anything - just pointing out which version of Heroes is the 'best' overall)

[PhoenixReborn]

Alright, perhaps you can translate me the last, 2 months old, news piece from ToH?

A slow going heroes5 finally has 5000+ games played in ToH, which is nice to see.

That's as rubbish as the statistics on the popularity of heroes 4 now. Quite simply I can turn on my msn and instantly have 4 or 5 people asking me for matches (I do suck at the game).

I don't understand why TOH stopped supporting the older games.

Some people still play H2 online. What are we arguing about again?

[Pitsu]

@Asheera
By the same logic any pop-hit that has over last weeks been played more often in radio than a centuries old classical symphony should be "better" than the symphony. It is fair to compare only such two pieces, which have similar enough background. ToTE is 1 year and 3 months old, SoD is 9 years. IMO ToTE and H5 are still too new for a fair comparison without considering the time factor.

[Corlagon]

That's simply not fair a comparison.

You're so right. Far less people had the internet back when Heroes III was released.

more content -> better, no doubt)

I'm pretty sure there is doubt... that makes Heroes III instantly the best in the series, despite its flawed Conflux and about 50 redundant spells.

[Asheera]

@Pitsu: If the majority of people listen to that pop-hit because they like it, and not because they want to 'give it a first try' to see how it is (and perhaps be disappointed), then yes it should be considered better than the symphony these days (who knows in the future?)

Obviously this is the majority-speaking, and in no way relates to the 'best'. Taste is completely subjective, which means you can't ever say what music is best since it depends on the individual. However, you can say what music is the most popular, based on the majority's taste. Again, this doesn't mean it is the 'best' way. Example: If the majority of people are impatient and like RTS more than TBS (which is a true story if I'm not wrong), does it mean that games like HoMM are inferior to Warcraft 3? For me, most definitely not.

So bottom line is, can we please stop saying which Heroes games suck and such? I never said such a thing actually. I even understand people that like Heroes 4, and if there was some other "new" company making it (like Nival did with H5), I wouldn't have said that the company sucks for making such a game (if it's not full of bugs - that's another story ) I mean, some players like H4 more than other HoMM games, who's to say they are wrong? The majority? By this logic, we shouldn't play TBSs since the majority likes RTSs more.

So H5:TotE was a great game, at least for me, and many other players like it a lot. Nival aren't a very bad company (since the game doesn't have many bugs, especially after TotE), and H4 was also a good game, since some players enjoyed it, though less popular.

So predicting if you'll like H6 with ANY developer is impossible, since it is subjective and the developers won't please anyone. As it has been shown with H4, there is a chance that not even the majority will be pleased. However, what we should really hope for is a company that is good at programming to not create a slow/dumb AI or fill the game with bugs.

@Corlagon: No, I meant the same game, with the same mechanics, but more content. If it has different mechanics you can't simply compare them that easily.

[Corlagon]

Well, the H3 Conflux was more content, but it didn't make the game any better in terms of balance. Content =/= quality.

[Asheera]

Why play with Conflux if you don't like it and think it's broken then? At least it doesn't make it 'worse', but maybe some people enjoy conflux, therefore making it 'better' for them.