Instant Travel - Useless?

[KiOwA]

I wonder if this spell has become useless/obsolete/a laughingstock. First of all, most maps disable this to prevent bugs caused by the AI, or to prevent the player bypassing certain important garrisons.

Secondly, if it is available, it uses up half your movement points and moves a ridiculously small distance. For half my movement points I'd expect at least half the screen, or better. Dimension Door in H3 was a tad overpowered, but at least it was fun to use.

[blizzardboy]

Instant Travel is broken. I don't think it should be in the game at all. If they do keep it, then it should be based on the hero level and spellpower shouldn't play any part in how far it can jump you. I also think you should be able to use it a set number of times per day instead of it using mana. It gives high spell power/knowledge heroes an unfair advantage in out-of-combat movement. You can use it to jump over mountains which can literally save you days of travel depending on how the map is set up.

What particularly comes to mind is when you use it in the underdark. You can just jump across to a nearby tunnel that normally might take a long trip to get to.

[Asheera]

What has Instant Travel to do with Spellpower?

[blizzardboy]

Perhaps I'm thinking of an older heroes game. I could have sworn that necro/dungeon heroes could warp father. Either way, it's an unfair benefit to heroes with high knowledge. Even at high levels a low knowledge hero suffers from it.

[Asheera]

I agree it's very unfair because you can jump through obstacles (that's the point of this spell though ) and "exploit" some maps (even get past the 40 tier 7s on Dragon Pass ) BUT you lose 50% of your movement points when using it, and therefore I don't think Knowledge/Mana is an important aspect of it.

But it is still "broken" IMO

[Kristo]

The Instant Travel type spells (e.g., Dimension Door and Town Portal) have been overpowered in every Heroes game so far. This time around it sounds like they nerfed it too far. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a way to balance it. It's just too powerful as a concept. As others have said, you could always use it to jump a key garrison even in its current state.

Dimension Door is necessary to win the final scenario of Archibald's campaign (Heroes 2) in 8 days. DD and TP are necessary to win the final scenario of the Price of Loyalty campaign in a non-ridiculous amount of time. These are contrived special cases, both in a single-player game. And in both cases, victory is inevitable anyway; it's just a matter of patience. I think technically that means the Heroes series would be no worse off had the spells never been included.

[konfeta]

Well, logistics (the concept) are pretty much 99% of the time one of the most important aspects of fighting a war. When you get a spell that allows you to essentially skip up to a week (if not more) of traveling, it's bound to be overpowered unless something exists to counter it.

IMO, for HoMM6, these spells shouldn't be removed. They should be expanded on - HoMM series always lacked in terms of options in the World Map. Having a new school of magic, complete with spells directly affecting each other would rock.

Remember "Mire" from HoMM 4? Now imagine if you could deny your opponent the ability to teleport, or use ships with a spell. Slow down the enemy hero, etc. These elements have been scattered all over the series, but they could be turned into something that is so much more.

[John.Galt]

Konfeta 2012^^^^^^^

[aaelgr]

Remember "Mire" from HoMM 4? Now imagine if you could deny your opponent the ability to teleport, or use ships with a spell. Slow down the enemy hero, etc. These elements have been scattered all over the series, but they could be turned into something that is so much more.

Amen. Scuttle Boat would be a welcome return too...

[Metathron]

Mire was just about one of the most original spells ever. Loved it!

[blizzardboy]

I don't like the concept of having logistics being a skill along with all the other skills. You pretty much always want to take logistics, so although you have 5 skills combinations to choose from, you realistically have more like 4 since you always want to take logistics. Still, not having any ways of optimizing yourself on the adventure map would be kind of lame.

I think it would be cool to be able to purchase "transportation" which would be wagons, carts, & beasts of burden. You would buy them from a special building in town, and they would increase your movement. You could then upgrade your transportation in order to make it better and better up to a certain point. The upper upgrades would have to be pretty costly so that you couldn't realistically buy them in early game. And you could also purchase special kinds of beasts of burden in order to increase your movement over certain terrain: camels for desert, lizards for the swamp, yaks for rough terrain, etc... Transportation could count as seperate items (sort of like mini artifacts) that you can buy/sell and get from defeated heroes as well and maybe even neutral monsters.

[Asheera]

Well I don't take Logistics all the time

[blizzardboy]

Well I don't take Logistics all the time

It's pretty rare to not want to take logistics. Occasionally I won't take it on Key to Victory since I mount up against the opponent fast enough that I'm better off lagging behind a little bit in order to focus on my combat build (and even so, swiftmind is such a great skill) But I think we'd all agree that logistics takes a vastly domineering spot since it is often a necessity, regardless of what faction you are. All the other skills are combat oriented (except for a few perks like estates, resourcefulness, etc.), but logistics and a lot of the perks are based on the adventure map.

[Asheera]

To be honest, for Dungeon there are a lot of other interesting choices than Logistics. I know Swift Mind is nice, but you need the useless Arcane Intuition for it (and semi-useless Scouting)

[Lord Lakely]

To be honest, for Dungeon there are a lot of other interesting choices than Logistics. I know Swift Mind is nice, but you need the useless Arcane Intuition for it (and semi-useless Scouting)

<*coughs something that sounds surprisingly like "Teleport Assault"*>

[Asheera]

Well Teleport Assault is nice as well (especially for Hydras & Red Dragons) but you waste your hero's turn though by using it (in fact you waste the high spellpower, because Teleport doesn't use it)

[blizzardboy]

To be honest, for Dungeon there are a lot of other interesting choices than Logistics. I know Swift Mind is nice, but you need the useless Arcane Intuition for it (and semi-useless Scouting)

Well yea, that's how it is for every faction. Logistics isn't much fun, it just makes you move faster. It's a boring skill but it's a high priority for every faction. That's why I think it would be better in heroes 6 to just take logistics out and use some other means to incorporate logistics in the game.

And yea, the prereq's for swift mind suck for dungeon-- for a good reason! And I agree with you on teleport assault. It works a lot better for inferno since the demon lords' turn isn't as valuable as the warlocks' turn.

[KiOwA]

Excellent idea, freeing up the Logistics slot for another skill. I too take Logistics all the time because not only does it give you more movement, it gives your hero greater flexibility in reaching spots on the map and is useful in catching fleeing heroes.