PC problems thread

[Borsuc]

I dunno if it could corrupt a BIOS since the BIOS is not on the hard drive. It is on the motherboard and runs separately from the hard drive. An example would be if you don't have an OS installed on the hard drive, notice how the BIOS still comes up at the start? That's because it isn't on the Hard drive.

I know but some viruses can "deflash" the BIOS or something (don't know the term), usually they need first to bypass the Windows kernel and get full control over the machine. I doubt it's what you have though

[Old_Man]

I dunno if it could corrupt a BIOS since the BIOS is not on the hard drive. It is on the motherboard and runs separately from the hard drive. An example would be if you don't have an OS installed on the hard drive, notice how the BIOS still comes up at the start? That's because it isn't on the Hard drive.

I know but some viruses can "deflash" the BIOS or something (don't know the term), usually they need first to bypass the Windows kernel and get full control over the machine. I doubt it's what you have though

But the Windows kernel is a part of Windows and since we have established the fact that the BIOS isn't actually on the hard drive (where Windows is located) then the bypassing the Windows Kernel wouldn't make a scrap of difference.

If you really want to access the BIOS then you would probably need to just take off the hood of the computer and fiddle around with the contents in there, which I don't recommend to anyone who isn't experienced enough.

Asheera, you may have some kind of a hardware problem. Is it really serious at the moment or does it just happen at random times? I recommend that you go and get it checked by some professionals.

[Asheera]

Asheera, you may have some kind of a hardware problem. Is it really serious at the moment or does it just happen at random times? I recommend that you go and get it checked by some professionals.

Hmm, it happens at random times and rarely. I don't think it's something serious at the moment.

But yeah I was pretty scared when it first did this. I thought the computer would start at random times when I'm sleeping or something

[Borsuc]

But the Windows kernel is a part of Windows and since we have established the fact that the BIOS isn't actually on the hard drive (where Windows is located) then the bypassing the Windows Kernel wouldn't make a scrap of difference.

What i was saying is that normally, applications (not drivers) run in ring-3. That is, they have restricted access to the hardware, and Windows blocks it. You need to bypass that Windows protection (just as "drivers" do, like for example, Video Card drivers), and access the hardware (BIOS) directly with the virus. In DOS, for example, you could do this since the system did not have any restrictions. In Windows, you need to bypass some protection first, unless the virus is a driver.

Once it gets past the restrictions, it can do whatever it wants to the "hardware" (Video Card, Sound Card, BIOS, etc). Whether the BIOS actually allows re-flashing (re-writing) or not is a different issue though.

EDIT: That is, you can't normally access a video card directly, but you need to use drivers. However, if the virus got past the restrictions, then it can access the video card directly, and as cards these days have a GPU, it gets scary since it would allow it to execute any piece of code it wants.

[Old_Man]

I wouldn't see the real point in trying to get access to a piece of hard ware such as a Graphics Card or a Sound Card. If the hacker got access to either of them it wouldn't matter since the motherboard has on-board video memory and an inbuilt sound card anyway.

And not all BIOS need drivers by the way, which is why I don't really think it would be possible for a virus to affect it. I would have thought that most viruses would have only attacked the Operating System files since attacking the hardware wouldn't really give any 'good' information that a hacker would want. I mean, all of the files that they want would be on the Hard drive, correct? It would be useless for a virus to actually attack a piece of hardware since it can't really do anything harmful.

And you said that it would allow it to execute any piece of code it wants. What code would you be referring to? The video card code or the software code in the system?

[Borsuc]

The video card code is similar to a parallel-vector-based software system (those used in Supercomputers), and it can do a lot of things. A virus can access the motherboard too (actually ANY program can), in DOS that is (where's no restrictions)...

As for the fact that the BIOS does not need drivers, well it's irrelevant, whether Windows uses the BIOS or not, doesn't mean it can't be used/reflashed. It just means that Windows doesn't need it (BIOS runs in 16-bit code, not 32-bit or 64-bit, so it would be a poor choice to use it anyway). That doesn't mean a virus can't access it (if it bypasses the restrictions obviously).

But this is not related to Asheera's problems, since the BIOS doesn't have effect once the computer is shut down either.

[Asheera]

Now it gets stranger and stranger.

Here, the old problem again:

Last night a strange event took place. I shut down my computer, and then after 1-2 seconds it just turned on by itself! Does anyone know what could be the cause?

Only that today it shut down (turned off all leds, fans, etc) and after FIVE seconds (or even more) it turned on!

[blacktrance]

Your computer has obviously been possessed by evil spirits. The only solution is a sledgehammer.

Alternatively, it's the effect from viewing too many quote wars.

[Asheera]

LOL blacktrance

But it really happened and it disturbs me

[Pol]

That sounds really freaking.

Computer can power up yourself when is that function allowed in bios, usually wake on (lan, ps2, usb, event..)

Computer can shut yourself when is instructed to or if it's halted by an error.

And last and not last, this may indicate a faulty component, ranging from motherboard, memory, vga card, audio card (if presented of course) to psu.

At very last your computer may be starting overmind but I certainly hope that is not so.

An easiest way how to check how is trouble keeping with you (or otherwise) is to lookup bios and disable all wake up on events, check cables and if all components are seated - reseat if not. And then check up the log viewer to see the messages. Here should be some.

Mostly I dislike such sort of troubles, they can (tend to) be tedious and vexing.

[Asheera]

Well, I shut it down "normally" yesterday, sorry if you understood something else.

I checked the bios and there are no wake up events.

I get a feeling it's the motherboard faulty since it's pretty old (5 years or so)

And btw, what's "overmind"?

[Pol]

Something what's control Kerrigan.

[Asheera]

it was a joke?

[Pol]

(or otherwise)
Sure!

[Muszka]

Last night a strange event took place. I shut down my computer, and then after 1-2 seconds it just turned on by itself! Does anyone know what could be the cause?

It happens to many quite many times, usually when there is a power shortage/breakdown/crash. And when the power is on again, the PC turns on. As far as I saw it happens only to older machines. Strange you experienced right after 'turn off'.

Btw, I experienced something strange today:
A friend of mine wanted to send me a song via Bluetooth at my pub. It gave him the following error message: "Sending failed". It happened couple times before so I didn't payed attention. I rebooted my PC, but still no success. Than he sent the song to my phone, but neither I could send to my machine. I thought that my Bluetooth device had given up the fight...but, when I got I could not connect my phone to the PC (Remote computer did not respond error), and since I use a dial up connection it was necessary to reach the internet. After a couple of unsuccessful reboots both on my PC and phone, I deleted the song, and my problems were solved. Oh, an the song wasn't a corrupted file since I could listen to it without any problems. Not that it's important, but I'm kind of curious whether if someone knows what happened. I mean why cannot I use my phone to Dial up because of a single file, when everything else worked fine? (I don't have simbian btw)

[Asheera]

What does it mean if your computer shuts down VERY slowly? (in fact, it just "stays" a lot of time (around 15 seconds) in the "Windows is Shutting Down" phase - without using the Hard Drive at all (the LED stays off))

[Pol]

@Asheera
It doesn't look like that is waiting, is waiting really. To close some application or net connection. And most probably to close an application which requested that net connection.(Which itself is waiting on that connection and therefore not responding to the system.) Huh!

@Muszka
I have some vague suspicion but nothing sure. Let face the fact that I have in phone three messages from Kate and nothing in the world can move them out. Everything else is working fine. They will probably go with him to afterlife.

[Asheera]

Ok thanks

It's just that I heard once from someone that the Video Card or something similar (Motherboard perhaps?) can cause that as well, if it's not working properly (and thus it will probably stop functioning after some time)

Was that complete nonsense or was there some truth in that?

[Pol]

Here's certain truth in that. Videocard, memory, motherboard bridges and harddisks are core of the computer. If any of them will suffer all will pay.

But it's not much likely.

[Muszka]

@Pol
I knew of the message thing... I friend of mine had it. You know just as good as I that there is "ghost in the machine"

@Asheera
15 seconds isn't that much. If you watch carefully that time grows in relation with your number of active programs, and the longer you use your PC. Also it's in relation with the HDD, but I wouldn't worry if I were you. Not now. (mainly what Pol said)