Time to Talk Heroes 6?

[CloudRiderX]

"Yes yes yes, I'm sure all the "dissatisfied" fans will come to complain, on a HV forum no less, in secret anticipation for HVI. Such dissatisfied customers..."



Why would I complain on the HV forums when I could complain here?



If any Ubisoft people read this, read carefully. Here is my reasoning in more drawn out terms than the usual "Heroes V sucks" I give people:



H5 had good graphics, great animations, a decent spell system, a very good map editor, and an absolutely amazing skill system. Congratulations.



BUT, the storyline sucked, the 'revolutionary' new siege battles you promised us never showed up, ghost mode sucked, your 'dynamic' battle mode doesn't do anything at all, neither does the simultaneous turns mode, the AI sucked, and it took two expansions for you to deliver us a finished product that 3DO got to us on the first try. I certainly do not feel any 'Heroes spirit' playing your goddam game.



...However, after all is said and done, H5 ToE is not a bad game. It's definitely a success. But a mere success does not make everyone happy, especially when we got much more from 3DO. You and Nival definitely have the capabilities to make a great Heroes game, not just a success. H6 is going to be the turning point for alot of fans (including me), who will determine whether they will stick it out with you, or hang back with earlier games. Why not make the next Heroes game the great one?

[jeff]

a very good map editor,

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but that comment I could not leave alone. You must have gotten a different version than the one I used, good is nowhere in my description of it, in fact it was what I found the most disappointing feature of H-V.

[Moragauth]

Cloudrider, this is one of the HV forums. Anyway, I didn't mean you, I mean people who think the game utterly failed, yet frequent these forums anyway. Seems pointless to me.

[rdeford]

Yes it is time to talk of H6. If there is no demand for a product, there will be no product. So speak loud and clear.



Both my wife and I find H5 TotE to be the best playing HOMM of the series. Yes, the AI is a little silly in places, but let's all be honest, so was the AI in H2, H3, and H4, though in different ways than H5. (I never played H1, so I cannot speak of it.)



@Jeff-- OK, you don't like the H5 editor, and you have plenty of company. But, after making several maps with it, I have come to see that it is by far the most capable editor in the series, and once you get past the learning curve, it is fun and exciting to use. Trouble is, that learning curve is daunting.



So, listen up Ubisoft, regarding H6:



-- Yes a good, easy to use map editor is a must if the game is to survive for any length of time. Witness the enduring popularity and loyal fan base of H2--H4 due to fan-made maps. However, I ask that it somehow retains the great power and capability of the H5 editor. Consider a two-layered interface, with the upper layer at the H3/H4 level, and the lower layer at the H5 level.



-- Yes a good AI is a must. Not all of us like multiplayer, so the singleplayer mode must be entertaining and challenging beyond simple numeric advantage. So, the H6 AI must be tricky, devious, and above all else, strategic thinking. Look at any chess playing AI on the market. See?



-- Yes a good storyline to provide a setting and set the tone of the game is a must, though, personally, I think there is room for improvement over the H3 and especially the H4 story lines.



-- Don't make us wait for the third expansion to deliver a complete game. TotE is a great game, not so H5 and HOF. If you stumble with the first step in marketing a game, you are in trouble for all the rest of the race.



Oh, regarding the comments that speak glowingly of 3DO, let us not forget that it was New World Computing not the bungling 3DO that was responsible for the HOMM universe we love.
Edited on Sun, Jun 01 2008, 11:37 by rdeford

[jeff4815]

I agree that a Might and Magic X is preferable. Complete with not the slaved minotaurs from Heroes V, and dragons who I don't feel bad about using (but will use anyways )

[jeff]

@Jeff-- OK, you don't like the H5 editor, and you have plenty of company. But, after making several maps with it, I have come to see that it is by far the most capable editor in the series, and once you get past the learning curve, it is fun and exciting to use. Trouble is, that learning curve is daunting.

I will admit it has capabilities that the earlier ones lacked, most ideally suited for a master of the map type creation. If however you wanted to make an RPG campaign like mine then it had several limitations (number of carryover heroes), and other items too numerous to mention here. Capability came at the unnecessary price of being too user unfriendly (unnecessary because as Fabrice stated no one said a better interface was needed), he has been justifiably flamed by the fans for that statement. It was not a learning curve but a cliff. Even when you manage to learn it, the amount of line by line programing one would have to do would add 1 to 2 years to the campaigns I write. This and the fact that H-V was not set up to support an RPG type of campaign makes it a failure in my mind.

Back on topic though, it is time to talk of H-VI, and make it very clear to UBI that the same disregard for the editor will not be tolerated and if they do then stick a fork in me I will be done with them and the franchise. Tribes was the first product I did not buy and if they do not make a better product HOF will be my last.

[HodgePodge]

… very good map editor …

What??!!?? You've got to be kidding. Heroes 5 has a TERRIBLE Map Editor! It's so user-UNfriendly that one has to be a computer programmer to use it. Not my idea of a "good map editor". Also, there are other pressing restrictions with the H5 map editor. BLAH! The crummy map editor is the main reason Heroes 5 stinks!

… I mean people who think the game utterly failed, yet frequent these forums anyway. Seems pointless to me.

There are other Heroes games besides Heroes 5 … and I might add MUCH BETTER ones too! Also, there are Might & Magic games to discuss. So while you're so enraptured with Heroes 5, those of us who aren't, still come to the Round Table to discuss our OTHER favorite games.

… Trouble is, that learning curve is daunting. …

Trouble is why should anyone who spends $50 on a game and doesn't have a lick of computer programming experience have to contend with a map editor that was clearly meant to discourage most regular people from creating maps & campaigns? A lot of people have talent creating storylines and character development but don't have a talent for computer languages, the H5 map editor doesn't allow much creativity of any kind.

I don't understand computer languages at all; but I still could use the Heroes 4 map editor with very little effort. With the Heroes 5 map editor, I was barely able to start a new map or even open an existing one. I don't know what UbiSoft/Nival was trying to prove with this piece of garbage, but they surely weren't trying to please the average Heroes fan! Why the hell should I have to tackle the "daunting learning curve" just to use a map editor that I've paid for?

I say if Heroes 6 is on the horizon, let some other company develop it instead of Nival!

[Lepastur]

"I don't know what UbiSoft/Nival was trying to prove with this piece of garbage"

Well said, I agree.



"I say if Heroes 6 is on the horizon, let some other company develop it instead of Nival!"

I guess it's too late for that. There are so many evidences that Nival's leading the project RIGHT NOW. On the other hand, I also guess that we shouldn't load all the blame on Nival's account. Ubi has some responsibility about Heroes V disaster.
Edited on Sun, Jun 01 2008, 15:38 by Lepastur

[Lord_Haart]

@CloudRiderX



Before you go around praising the times of 3DO, you might want to check your history. While Nival were great, the games all suffered premature releases and lack of budget due to the EA-like publisher.



I found H5 satisfying, certainly not groundbreaking, but an essential step in proving that PC TBS games can sell. A H6 will not be forthcoming until 201x, but it will indeed come.

[ThunderTitan]

have to contend with a map editor that was clearly meant to discourage most regular people from creating maps & campaigns?

Oh no honey... it was meant to require minimum effort on the devs part... "never attribute to malice things that are easily explained by laziness".

I found H5 satisfying, certainly not groundbreaking, but an essential step in proving that PC TBS games can sell.

Pls... it sold about as well as H4 (maybe better with the exp, as h4's where more like patches) and Disciples 2 already had proven TBS' can sell (and Etherlords wasn't a RTS either).

[HodgePodge]

have to contend with a map editor that was clearly meant to discourage most regular people from creating maps & campaigns?

Oh no honey... it was meant to require minimum effort on the devs part... "never attribute to malice things that are easily explained by laziness".

Good point.

[Ya5MieL]

If they make decent upgrade of great H5 game, it will surely be even greater product.



Now, little more work on user friendly editor and better multiplayer support are indeed needed but that is not enough to mark the game as bad.



H5 fulfilled almost all my expectations from Heroes sequel.

Nival for the win!!!

[rdeford]

@jeff-- Quote: "Even when you manage to learn it, the amount of line by line programing one would have to do would add 1 to 2 years to the campaigns I write."



You are right. H6 absolutely must have a decent editor that is at least as easy to use as the H4 editor. It should be at the top of everyone's H6 wish list. I am sorry if I implied I felt otherwise while reminding everyone of the H5 editor's one strength.

[ThunderTitan]

>>If they make decent upgrade of great H5 game, it will surely be even greater product.<<

Yeah, it's weird how how that's exactly the definition of greater... your definition of great seems to be somewhat incorrect though.

[Ya5MieL]

Ever thought that your definition was wrong? (Not that I'm saying that it is)



Whining is ok in decent measures but what you do is simply evil intended bashing of a game.

Some of us like the game, even with its few flaws. You could try respecting other player's thoughts and impressions. You obviously didn't like the game, but quite many of us did, so lets not challenge each other's brainwaves and conclusion making.



I have played all games in series from KB/H1 and H5 is best of them in my opinion. Some will agree with it, some won't, but every single player has a right to name the game as great, as much as other has a right to call it the worst.



Cheers!

[ZireX]

I don't really want H6 for at least a few years but that's only if something changes now.The spells and the abilities are awesome (the skills and combinations are superb) the graphics are very nice and the feel of the game is nice.The big BUT...in H3 i loved making maps more than playing the game...now i didn't make even one map - map editor sux hard...And the second thing wich I find more frustrating is the AI.It's still dull and stupid.Fix the hopeless AI make some improvements to the map editor make a patch with all that and leave us for a few years untill H6.

[Muszka]

Whining is ok in decent measures but what you do is simply evil intended bashing of a game.

Don't be mad on my papa since he's only scoffing, and he likes the game too
On a different note, he must teach me a lot about this world, so I'm heading for his classes

[astral76minor]

You know, Ubisoft still has not fully fixed Heroes 5 yet.

[HellSpawn]

((You know, Ubisoft still has not fully fixed Heroes 5 yet.))



So true, "Astral76minor".

[Muszka]

You know, Ubisoft still has not fully fixed Heroes 5 yet.

And I doubt he ever will, I foreseen. But any other game have flaws too...