Why hasn't HOMM series won many more fans?

[Bandobras Took]

Oh, I'm not talking about that -- I'm talking about watching the AI just stop as it repeatedly sends creatures to join the main hero -- who then has creatures with no movement points in their army and therefore can't move for the entire game.

That can't happen in H5, so it doesn't really tell us anything...

It tells us a great deal. For starters, it tells us that can't happen in H5, so we don't have the worst AI release.

obvious imbalances

What were the balance issues in H5 release? I can think of Necromancy (which was imbalanced in the other hero games anyway); what else?

[arturchix]

Maybe also Summon Creatures spell but none of them felt to break the game balance totally in favor for one faction. H3 was even more imbalanced after the expansions were released, the whole Conflux town and the ultra power of Town Portal, Dimension Door and Fly spells.

No developer ever will reach the magical perfect balance but I think Nival did a pretty good job.

[tb5841]

The initial H5 release had mage guilds so expensive that Academy became totally useless. Training was pretty imbalanced also (no creature limit), Paladin's charge thing could do ridiculous amounts of damage. Raise Dead only cost 6 mana and didn't reduce a stack's total hit points the way it does now. So Necropolis/Haven were far more powerful than the other teams, and Academy were far weaker.

Gating was also weaker than it is now, and since Inferno are ranked the weakest team in the most-powerful-faction poll they must have been very weak then.

I do think the current game balance is brilliant, but in the first release it was awful...

[ThunderTitan]

That can't happen in H5, so it doesn't really tell us anything...

It tells us a great deal. For starters, it tells us that can't happen in H5, so we don't have the worst AI release.

Right... the key to perfect AI is making sure the gameplay only allows it to make rudimentary decisions so it doesn't have to calculate much...

[Meandor]

Most importan thing is that AI works.

[Humakt]

Oh, I'm not talking about that -- I'm talking about watching the AI just stop as it repeatedly sends creatures to join the main hero -- who then has creatures with no movement points in their army and therefore can't move for the entire game.

So you've played 1.0. Good job. Now update it to 3.0 and Equilibris and see if they do that again. And while you are at it, try some more challenging maps (meaning non-NWC). I can recommend some of mine if you want.

Angelspit, you should copyright all orc avatars - I thought it's you asking.

Would be interesting question from him. He propably knows how popular HoMM is better than any of us. Hmm, maybe it is Angelspit in disguise?

[ThunderTitan]

Most importan thing is that AI works.

If by work you mean moves around the map for some time before going back to town to wait for you to kill it... yeah, sure.

[Meandor]

Of course it`s not great AI, it`s crap. But point is that when compared with H4 broken AI it looks decent enough for casual gamer and casual gamers shouldn`t worry why it looks better.

[ThunderTitan]

Sure, but that don't mean i have tom put up with comments about how the AI is a plus...

[schiz]

First impressions really did hurt 5. The way objects on the adventure map were (still are) scaled, the confusing interface, poorly worded (or nonexistant) skill and artifact descriptions, obvious imbalances, and a piddling selection of maps with no editor to create new ones; put together, those issues were very...upsetting to say the least.

And, it just simply plays too slow. To much rotating and zooming. I bought the latest expansion shortly after it was released and since then I've played both H3 and H4 more. Once in a while I do come back to 5 but I get bored within a short time. Maybe someday I'll get past it and start to enjoy it but I would much prefer something closer to H4 with better AI and hero / monster balancing. Maybe balancing isn't the right word. In the last couple H4 maps I played, the heroes were more powerful than the creatures. When you have an army that consists of only 2 heroes that can take on a couple hundred black dragons... The biggest issue with H4 for me is that it doesn't scale to epic levels very well. The skill system is actually pretty cool once you understand it.

I haven't played H5 enough to really understand the skill system.

Maybe someday.

PS Usually when I start a new version of heroes my initial impression is negative but It's never taken this long for me to come around.

H3 is still by far my favorite.

[RustedSorrow]

The story was crap. Did anyone really like it?????

Has the power of skeleton archers been reduced in TOE? The 2k stacks used to be more useful than 160 bone dragons with unicorn's bow. They didn't seem so invincible when used them Arantir. The dark energy points is a good way to check necro's power. Haven, I guess are now the strongest faction with academy and dungeon still being the weakest.

Inferno.... They seem quite strong with Urgash's call.

[RustedSorrow]

The story was crap. Did anyone really like it?????

Has the power of skeleton archers been reduced in TOE? The 2k stacks used to be more useful than 160 bone dragons with unicorn's bow. They didn't seem so invincible when used them Arantir. The dark energy points is a good way to check necro's power. Haven, I guess are now the strongest faction with academy and dungeon still being the weakest.

Inferno.... They seem quite strong with Urgash's call.

[Ya5MieL]

I think many of academy players would disagree on that one. Academy is in the top regarding the power and versatility.

[Wurtzel]

The story was crap. Did anyone really like it?????

Has the power of skeleton archers been reduced in TOE? The 2k stacks used to be more useful than 160 bone dragons with unicorn's bow. They didn't seem so invincible when used them Arantir. The dark energy points is a good way to check necro's power. Haven, I guess are now the strongest faction with academy and dungeon still being the weakest.

Inferno.... They seem quite strong with Urgash's call.

According to all the polls, in tote, Necro is the strongest end game faction.

[Markal]

I thought of the HOMM series as similar to FFT. FFT was the best game in its series but it never caught on with the mainstream. It was left in the dust once FF7 came out. HOMM 3 had great game play but when 4 came out they upgraded on graphics and downplayed the game play. The start of 5 was too much like 4, but fortunately TOE was able to bring back more of what 3 had like artifact sets. The Heroes series does have a fan base but the mainstream wants something flashy that doesn't require thought. HOMM doesn't appeal because it focuses more on storyline and game play and even though they upped their game in the graphics department it's not enough for the mainstream crowd. Another disadvantage is that you have to wait. After playing your turn you have to sit still and wait for the computer or another play to go. People constantly want to be playing instead of waiting or watching. So in conclusion, the mainstream population are impatient idiots.

[Lepastur]

Oh, I guess this have nothing to do with TBS, shooters and other stories. HoMM is, and always have been, divided on two main streams:

1 - Single player
2 - Multiplayer

For number 1, we have an uneasy map editor and a poor IA, so there is a lack of maps and campaigns made by fans. And the few ones we may find aren't funny cos the IA, so the working time and effort spent on their making off isn't worthy.

And for number 2, an uneasy map editor again, an useless RMG, a poor sim turns system and balance plenty of flaws.

So, if both streams fails, the low success of the game shouldn't surprise to anyone, isn't it? Indeed, what amazes me it's the game is still running. The only hope I see for this game it's that the MOD community efforts could bring us a well balance for multi one day, because I guess all hope is lost about the editor, IA and sim turns.

[Slepytchee]

I guess the series has always been here for players who were looking for it and enjoyed, the fact that it is not taken massively out of the store shelves is that it is not strongly mainstream as other games can be.

[blizzardboy]

It doesn't matter how good Heroes is, or how good Heroes 6 will be. The game will do decently, but it's not going to be a major hit simply because it's a turn based strategy game. FPS's, MMO'S, and RTS's are popular for kids and work well as an online game. This is a slow-paced, turned based strategy game, so it's going to appeal to a smaller audience. Not much you can do about it.

edit: Oh, and the Heroes 5 campaign plot is sheer torture.

[ThunderTitan]

Meh, they said that about most other genres too (RTS's come to mind) once...

But as a more "hardcore" game it will never sell as much as GTA or Halo etc... heck, even Starcraft took 10 years to sell 10 mil... and that's when a lot of ppl being temp banned in bnet went and just bought another copy...

And selling 1 mil would make it a major hit... just because it's a fad nowadays to buy the latest uber hyped game even if you're not a gamer doesn't change the old ways...

[Rymbeld]

Did it really do that "poorly?" if you look here on the right then you'll see that HOMMV and TOE are the #6 and #7 top sellers, respectively. That seems good.