What makes a good map?

[GrowlingDog]

Ok, after playing all of the Heroes games and the 3 versions of Heroes 5, i've played a lot of different maps from random to downloaded, i was just curious what everyone else likes in a good map. Thought i'd get the ball rolling with some of my own likes and dislikes;
1st, I like maps that are large or X large so that i can play them for a long time.
2nd, I like maps that i have to play all of to finish. In other words, i get to see everything on the map. finishing a map with 2/3rds of it still hidden makes me feel cheated.
3rd, They have to have as many different features and adventure items as possible.
4th, Playing with any more than 4 players is too slow, so i always look for ones with less.
5th, Although its rare, i love it when the hardest battle is near the end and not about half way thru the map. Then i just have to cruise all the way to the end. Not as much fun.
6th, I like to be able to choose my own faction and hero
7th, I like being seperated from my opponents by reasonably powerful creatures so that we are not bumping into each other in the 1st week.
8th, Dont like it when it is difficult or time consuming to get from the action back to town and then back to the action again. (portals help a lot with this)
9th, Personally, i dont like a lot of water on maps.

Well i guess thats a good start from me but im curious what others like in a good map design. I made some maps back in H3 days but i dont have the skill or patience to try it on H5.

[Bonzer]

I agree with just about all of your points here, but I do like water on the map. The only problem with that though is that I rarely get there first for the resources

I only play SP.

My standard playing style is to hire a 2nd hero on day 1, pass his troops on, use my main to get wood and ore (day 1 if possible), then buff them both as the forces grow. Hero 2 becomes the housekeeper at mills etc.

After a few weeks he is strong enough to adequately defend while Mr. Main goes further afield.

I do like to clear my starting area before moving on. I have found that if the AI comes a calling, if I can repulse it's first attack or two, after that it just sends a weak army each time.

I will always recruit Elaine when available, as she shows a profit within 3 weeks.

There is a saying that no plan survives first contact, and that is so true.

Your map prefernces, like mine, seem to allow for this style....usually

Bonzer

[GrowlingDog]

Yes water is very good for resources but as you say, the AI players seem to get them before i do.
Also it would be good if if you could choose more options in the random map gen, like water, resources, artifacts and maybe even powerful foe seperation.

[King Imp]

1st, I like maps that are large or X large so that i can play them for a long time.
2nd, I like maps that i have to play all of to finish. In other words, i get to see everything on the map. finishing a map with 2/3rds of it still hidden makes me feel cheated.
3rd, They have to have as many different features and adventure items as possible.
4th, Playing with any more than 4 players is too slow, so i always look for ones with less.
5th, Although its rare, i love it when the hardest battle is near the end and not about half way thru the map. Then i just have to cruise all the way to the end. Not as much fun.
6th, I like to be able to choose my own faction and hero
7th, I like being seperated from my opponents by reasonably powerful creatures so that we are not bumping into each other in the 1st week.
8th, Dont like it when it is difficult or time consuming to get from the action back to town and then back to the action again. (portals help a lot with this)
9th, Personally, i dont like a lot of water on maps.

Wow, you basically took the exact words right out of my mouth. This is exactly what I look for in a map and unfortunately there aren't many out there that meet these criteria.

I think I've only played one map (besides my own) that actually made an effort to separate the factions and keep them apart. In just about every map I have seen some movement from an enemy within 1 week and by 1 month they are launching an all-out assault. What fun is that?

[tb5841]

I prefer medium-sized maps, with 2-4 players, where there is as small a time as possible between knowing I'm going to win and the actual winning.

I don't mind meeting enemies in the first few weeks, fighting neutrals for a month gets a bit dull. And I like a map to have some degree of originality to it, which is rare in H5.

[GrowlingDog]

ok so it looks like most people like the same time type of maps, now all we have to do is try and talk someone into making them. Oh and remember i like to choose my own faction and hero so please STOP with all the maps that have preset factions and heroes. I guess i should try and make my own . After looking at the map editor though, i think it's going to take a long time.

[PhoenixReborn]

Oh and remember i like to choose my own faction and hero so please STOP with all the maps that have preset factions and heroes.

People make whatever maps they want to, I think you realized when you wrote you should try to make your own.

Did you look all through maps4heroes? Plenty of maps and very few of them have preset conditions.

What do you think of the random map generator?

[Akul]

ok so it looks like most people like the same time type of maps, now all we have to do is try and talk someone into making them. Oh and remember i like to choose my own faction and hero so please STOP with all the maps that have preset factions and heroes. I guess i should try and make my own . After looking at the map editor though, i think it's going to take a long time.

Mapmakers make maps they like. Those maps are played by people who have similiar tastes like the mapmaker. Forcing a mapmaker to do something he doesn't like is... evil.

[Titanus]

5th, Although its rare, i love it when the hardest battle is near the end and not about half way thru the map. Then i just have to cruise all the way to the end. Not as much fun.

In conjuction with this point, I'd like my hero to be fully developed (about level 30-32 give or take). This however, calls for 2-3 Trees of Sylanna in a map, otherwise it's douptful that this will be achieved through battles alone, courtesy of the absurd amounts of xp needed to level up, after level 27-28.

[PhoenixReborn]

To the OP Four Kingdoms meets all of your criteria.

[Akul]

BTW, shoudn't this perhaps be in the Mapmaking Guild?

[parcaleste]

5th, Although its rare, i love it when the hardest battle is near the end and not about half way thru the map. Then i just have to cruise all the way to the end. Not as much fun.

In conjuction with this point, I'd like my hero to be fully developed (about level 30-32 give or take). This however, calls for 2-3 Trees of Sylanna in a map, otherwise it's douptful that this will be achieved through battles alone, courtesy of the absurd amounts of xp needed to level up, after level 27-28.

Witch Huts helps with this one pretty good AND... a Memory Mentor is 120% needed on each and every map nowadays

[Kristo]

BTW, shoudn't this perhaps be in the Mapmaking Guild?

Agreed. Thread moved.

[Titanus]

Witch Huts helps with this one pretty good AND... a Memory Mentor is 120% needed on each and every map nowadays

Witch Huts help if you want or already have a skill (unless you take a skill you don't want and then pay and... pray to the fat Wizzard to offer you the desired skill) and Memory Mentor applies to achieved hero levels...Big difference here!

[GrowlingDog]

"Four Kingdoms" hey? thankyou very much. As for random map gen, i think it needs more options but its pretty good i guess.
"Mapmakers make maps they like. Those maps are played by people who have similiar tastes like the mapmaker. Forcing a mapmaker to do something he doesn't like is... evil."
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, i guess im just asking in a rather forceful way. Sorry.

[Tobius]

Well, I have to disagree about almost every point of your list. I do not think that large maps are basically better than medium or small maps just because it gets pretty boring after a while when you have to fight one enemy after another. You like large maps but I think almost every L/XL map has more than 4 players. With the other points it is the same to me.

In general I think that three things form the fundament of evaluating any map out there: 1st Aesthetics (details, variety), 2nd Map design (complexity, level of difficulty, innovations), and 3rd Atmosphere (suspense, story/dialogue).

I am an enthused single player that is why I do not really care about multiplayer maps, but I think that you prefer mulitplayer maps because a singleplayer map can hardly unite your criteria. The most important thing for me is the story. I love these strong story driven RPG-maps like Tim Duncan has made. Maps which do not care about a story are a waste of time for me.

[ByteBandit]

I like XL maps. I like utilizing as much as I can with what the map has to offer.
There has to be a lot of stuff on the map. The map should have a lot to do in it, and it should be well decorated. Nothing worse than an empty map.
I like to be able to choose which faction I play with. Variety is the spice of life.
A story is good, but not really necessary. Sometimes I complete a map without finishing the story. It happens.
I don'l like overpowered maps. What's the point of playing it if you get beat all the time? I like an equal chance kind of map, but with challenge.
I play as single player, never online. I have dial up, glad to even have web access where I live out in the boondocks.

[Akul]

Totally agree with Tobius.

[GrowlingDog]

I agree with byte bandit. Never play multi-player, story isn't that important to me, map design is. If i'm saving a princess or avenging a king or whatever, i dont really care, if the map has no story but great layout, im happy.
One of the best maps i played was back in H3 days, i didnt have any opponent as such. As i made my way thru the map, i stormed increasingly stronger castles and heroes but the heroes were stationed permanently in the castles. It meant i could complete quests and not have to worry about defending all my castles. Also, the last battle was a huge epic. Cant remember the name of it now but whoever designed it, got the numbers just right for each castle that i came up against. It probably had a great storyline to it but liek i said, that didnt matter. Does anyone know of a H5 map something like this.

[theLuckyDragon]

@ByteBandit
Big maps also allow you to make those two wonders I just noticed in the Latest Maps section on CH They look awesome, I'm very impressed. Too bad I don't have Heroes 4 over here at college.

I think this goes to show that an impressive terrain design does have a certain impact in making a 'good' map.