Inferno Strategy

[Banedon]

Mod note: This was split off from the HoMM III: Best level 1 creature thread. A few posts might not make much sense unless you read it first. GC.

And, no, I'm not talking about the AI here. And I don't need to maintain Sprites in high quantities if they allow me to expand rapidly in week 1 on EVERY difficulty level, setting resources free to equip another hero on not-impossible levels.

...and yet you refuse to rush Thunderbirds and Efreet Sultans when they are the creatures that allow you to expand rapidly in week 1 (albeit not on every difficulty level)? What gives?

[Jolly Joker]

And, no, I'm not talking about the AI here. And I don't need to maintain Sprites in high quantities if they allow me to expand rapidly in week 1 on EVERY difficulty level, setting resources free to equip another hero on not-impossible levels.

...and yet you refuse to rush Thunderbirds and Efreet Sultans when they are the creatures that allow you to expand rapidly in week 1 (albeit not on every difficulty level)? What gives?

Exactly, because you are as wrong with them as with the Storms: you don't need them (necessarily) to expand just as rapidly.
The only advantage T-Birds have over Rocs is the higher adventure map movement speed. However, without Tactics the speed just isn't enough to reach the other map side in one turn - and incidentally all other stats are equal, so the "wasted" build-day, resources and money don't really gain anything.
The same is true for the Efreet upgrade. If you CAN get Efreeti, go for them, of course. But on most maps the Efreet can do what the Sultans do. The Sultans gain 2 defense and 4 speed mainly.
If you had no hero, a Grand Elf would do 3.7 damage against an Efreet. Each defense point of the hero reduces this by .1. Each skill point in armorer reduces it by a further .2 and Armorer is a main skill of Inferno heroes. Furthermore there are spells, and you need the guild anyway to get your level 5.
That means, your UPGRADES are better suited to do the job, but the basic units are well enough suited most of the time.
It means further, your investment in mones and resources for the upgrade must pay somehow - you MUST bring in what you paid for it by doing something you couldn't do without the upgrade, otherwise you LOST something, because there is always a better and more profitable build than the level 5 or 6 upgrade.


@ Pol
Well, an extra point for original arguing, but if we would follow that we would rate Tactis the worst skill ever because the AI uses it to hurt itself in siege battles (when it is attacked) which makes for a very bad record.
So whether the AI is able to play a unit to its fullest should have no effect on the rating of that unit.

[Banedon]

It means further, your investment in mones and resources for the upgrade must pay somehow - you MUST bring in what you paid for it by doing something you couldn't do without the upgrade, otherwise you LOST something, because there is always a better and more profitable build than the level 5 or 6 upgrade.

Except that by rushing the Grand Elves I scorched my way to week 2 Green Dragons + Capitol + Castle while you're struggling with Green Dragons by week 3. So much for 'wasting money'.

I tell you what...specifiy a map that you think suits your style of play. I'll attempt it (Expert difficulty, not Impossible) and we'll see what the results are after two weeks. I won't be able to do this anytime soon (will take another 2 weeks in real life at least) nor will I be able to guarantee I have the map, but let's do it anyway. I'm quite certain my style will beat your style anyday, even if there's only one castle to manage and especially if it's a multiplayer map where I can use my advantage on the adventure map to pressure you into conceding me resources. Game to try?

Given 2.2 SOD data, I certainly would pick Lizard Warriors ANYDAY over Marksmen. Marksmen simply DON'T survive in any fight other than vs neutral stacks. Lizard Warrior's 2-5 damage is VERY, VERY good for a level 2 unit. And let's not mention the fact that they will do roughly 3 times more damage than Marksmen in melee.

The point is, who cares? If your Marksmen are dying to an enemy hero, fine, they're dying to an enemy hero. You win the battle - and the game - as a result. Saying Lizard Warriors are better than Marksmen because they don't die in fights is like saying that the only battles worth fighting are those in which you lose no units, which makes fighting the final battle impossible. If it weren't for the Storm Elementals, I'd argue that Marksmen > all other level 2 units with no problems.

[Gaidal Cain]

Given 2.2 SOD data, I certainly would pick Lizard Warriors ANYDAY over Marksmen. Marksmen simply DON'T survive in any fight other than vs neutral stacks. Lizard Warrior's 2-5 damage is VERY, VERY good for a level 2 unit. And let's not mention the fact that they will do roughly 3 times more damage than Marksmen in melee.

If you need to depend on shooters doing well in a melee, you're doing something wrong. Marksmen will die when facing fast shooters (but so will almost any valuable unit), or large enemy armies. This is either amendable (archangels) or something that is an unavoidable prerequsite for being able to destroy your opponent.

[Jolly Joker]

It means further, your investment in mones and resources for the upgrade must pay somehow - you MUST bring in what you paid for it by doing something you couldn't do without the upgrade, otherwise you LOST something, because there is always a better and more profitable build than the level 5 or 6 upgrade.

Except that by rushing the Grand Elves I scorched my way to week 2 Green Dragons + Capitol + Castle while you're struggling with Green Dragons by week 3. So much for 'wasting money'.

I tell you what...specifiy a map that you think suits your style of play. I'll attempt it (Expert difficulty, not Impossible) and we'll see what the results are after two weeks. I won't be able to do this anytime soon (will take another 2 weeks in real life at least) nor will I be able to guarantee I have the map, but let's do it anyway. I'm quite certain my style will beat your style anyday, even if there's only one castle to manage and especially if it's a multiplayer map where I can use my advantage on the adventure map to pressure you into conceding me resources. Game to try?

Given 2.2 SOD data, I certainly would pick Lizard Warriors ANYDAY over Marksmen. Marksmen simply DON'T survive in any fight other than vs neutral stacks. Lizard Warrior's 2-5 damage is VERY, VERY good for a level 2 unit. And let's not mention the fact that they will do roughly 3 times more damage than Marksmen in melee.

The point is, who cares? If your Marksmen are dying to an enemy hero, fine, they're dying to an enemy hero. You win the battle - and the game - as a result. Saying Lizard Warriors are better than Marksmen because they don't die in fights is like saying that the only battles worth fighting are those in which you lose no units, which makes fighting the final battle impossible. If it weren't for the Storm Elementals, I'd argue that Marksmen > all other level 2 units with no problems.

Ah, no, no, no we are not talking about Grand Elves. We are taling about Efreet Sultans and Thunderbirds.
You will upgrade Grand Elves "soon" anyway - on day 8 even on impossible because you'll let them do your dirty work anyway - and the only question is how soon which clearly depends on what you have and can. IF you have Ivor or two heroes with the additional 3rd stack and immediately build and upgrade the Elves dwelling you are having enough Elves immediately to do it and go for it. Why wait doing what you will do anyway? The same is true for Marksmen. Even without Valeska, IF it fits, do it because you will build the upgrade anyway. The same is true for Harpy Hags, Dragonflies (at least in my book), Master Gremlins, Sprites, and Vampire Lords. It is true for Cerberi if you don't manage to build Efreet (without a level 2 dwelling pre-built this will become virtually impossible on impossible).
It is not true for Efreet Sultans or Thunderbirds because this is no upgrade you dearly need for successful creeping. So IF you upgrade them ("wasting" money, resources and a build, you have to get BY VIRTUE OF THE UPGRADE ALONE something you couldn't have gotten without the upgrade WHEN IT WAS NEEDED.
Furthermore you are still arguing on behalf of ONE game played on a very easy map AND you pick your heroes as well which would amount to a special case. I usually play with random heroes, especially in MP - you have to be flexible.

Of course you can play any map you want in any way you want and report the results.

[Banedon]

Pick one, because the last time I tried it you blamed the map.

[Jolly Joker]

Again, no.
You started with Ivor and you started on a map with an observation post near your town. IF you start with Ivor and IF you have the means to do it (especially when seeing part of the map immediately), what you did was natural (otherwise why start with Ivor?). You could even write this into the guide.
I'd even say that (without Ivor or Elves) on Expert a good tactic might be to hire all Centaurs and grade them up immediately being fast and pretty strong right from the start without Elves.
There are all kind of ways you can play. Starting with Ignatius grading Imps up right away is possible as well.
But I think this is about T-Birds or Efreet Sultans.
Plus, it's not only about you showing what you can do by grading them up, it's about me showing that you can do the same or more without.
This would mean someone had to pick a map, create a save, either for Inferno or Stronghold, and send it to us. Random picks for hero and bonus. Obviously it must be a rather "normal" mp map (could have one computer opponent (like a 4/3 map or something), because the others are too story driven. No WoG, of course.

Ah, heck, I forgot: could be the Conflux as well - you going for Storms, me playing with Sprites alone.

[Banedon]

Sure no problem, but:

1. I'm not going to use a random hero and random bonus, because in such a game if you get Ignatius on Inferno and the other guy (the other MP players you're playing with) gets Crag Hack you're at a serious disadvantage. You should be allowed to pick your starting hero (and starting bonus); for Inferno this is Octavia and for Stronghold it'll be Crag Hack. In both cases I'll go for Gold as the starting bonus.
2. I'm going to assume I know the map well before I start playing. It would be an embarassment to play a serious MP game without knowing the map well.

Your choice for a map, I won't / can't choose without Heroes III installed on this computer.

[Jolly Joker]

You are wasting my time here.
Since you would not play against other human players, but only against the AI your reasons are not valid. Knowledge of the map is not necessary either.
In fact I detest this kind of play, knowing the map, picking the hero, always playing out the same boring moves with the same boring heroes following the same boring paths on the well known map.
If you like that kind of play, your loss. I'm not going to put up with this kind of "challenge".

[Pol]

Hu, hoom this is in so wrong thread. Not all things need to be proven (first is not having any impact on them if they will work or not, and also first it's require time and where it is not... )

Let this thread open for other people, to discussing "Best level 1 creature", shall we?

[Muszka]

Hu, hoom this is in so wrong thread. Not all things need to be proven (first is not having any impact on them if they will work or not, and also first it's require time and where it is not... )

Let this thread open for other people, to discussing "Best level 1 creature", shall we?

you may be right, but it started with discussing the 'best 1st lvl unit'. This kind of things happen everytime. It's like two old musicians argue about wether Tschaikovsky is better or Mozart. Yet, both of them knows that they're both right. So is Banedon and Jolly Joker they have differt play style. And both can be good, You can have one what's different, and that can be good too, anybody can have different tactics, what can work in it's own way. But I think, that this diversity, is one of those things, that make this game so... I quite don't get any word to suit here perfectly.

But really, would you like to play a game, where you can only build a specific building on any specific day.
Would you even play this game, if for example: The Centaurs would have 10/10 attack/defense, 10 hp, 10 shots, 10 speed, no retal. and 50 growt. The Halberdiers would have the exactly the same with 9 in place of 10, hobgoblins with 8, and so on.
I can clearly predict, that your answer is no, as anyone's honest answer would be No.

My point is that maybe we aren't so much off-topic, only we are (much more they, that's true) on the right next line, and... They're just a bit stuborn

[Banedon]

You are wasting my time here.
Since you would not play against other human players, but only against the AI your reasons are not valid. Knowledge of the map is not necessary either.
In fact I detest this kind of play, knowing the map, picking the hero, always playing out the same boring moves with the same boring heroes following the same boring paths on the well known map.
If you like that kind of play, your loss. I'm not going to put up with this kind of "challenge".

If there were other humans in the game it would be so much easier to defeat your build order, because the 6 Efreet Sultans on day 8 would overwhelm your Cerberi with no problems, and then force you to concede resources and mines. The superior army would impede your expansion - not something the AI would do.

Anyway if you don't want to play it's OK with me, I might still conduct such a test in two weeks' time though.

you may be right, but it started with discussing the 'best 1st lvl unit'. This kind of things happen everytime. It's like two old musicians argue about wether Tschaikovsky is better or Mozart. Yet, both of them knows that they're both right. So is Banedon and Jolly Joker they have differt play style. And both can be good, You can have one what's different, and that can be good too, anybody can have different tactics, what can work in it's own way. But I think, that this diversity, is one of those things, that make this game so... I quite don't get any word to suit here perfectly.

How about 'rich'?

As for the other question, I believe yes, the answer would be 'no'. But when it comes to the best possible build there aren't many options. No reasonable human player would focus on Battle Dwarves instead of Grand Elves with Rampart, so while the choice may appear to be there, it really is not.

[Muszka]

How about 'rich'?

As for the other question, I believe yes, the answer would be 'no'. But when it comes to the best possible build there aren't many options. No reasonable human player would focus on Battle Dwarves instead of Grand Elves with Rampart, so while the choice may appear to be there, it really is not.

Rich... You're near. I think I invent one word for it, if I don't get the perfect one.
Maybe, but there are many ppl out there. And they I so much different.
Maybe I'm some sick-minded geek, who is 150cm tall and my girlfriend is 140 and my obsessions are dwarves.
Or maybe I have a ranch with 100 horses, and they are my life, and I dream of winged horses and Unicorns every night.
Or I'm a ranger, my life is the wilderness. My hause is the forest, I live on trees.

My point is that you can play Ufretin, Clancy, my favorite unit can be the imp (nooo way!), my favorite skills can be the Scholar and Eagle Eye, my favorite building can be the fountain of fortune, as long as I can use it to my advantage, and/or can win me fights and/or I like it. It has low probabilities, but anything may happen.
It's unlikely, that someone's favorite unit are dwarves, and they win huge fights at the end of maps, but it can be(I've won big fights with Ogre Magi), it's even unlikelier, that someone's favorite unit to be the imp, but noone knows. And It's really hard to Imagine that Scholar or Eagle Eye can be someone's favorit and to win maps with; but you know? You get a hero in tavern or prison with TP already learned, and to learn from him/her. A stolen Resurrection. Those can save lives and time.
Could you imagine to really have Fountain of Fortune as a favorite. And to win maps with it? A luck attack can decide fights. It's highly unprobable when it comes to siege, but it does have chance.
Everything has, +1 movement, +1 attack, you name it.
I like the diversity, the "richness" of this game.
And everybody has the rights to play this game in his intelligent or stupid way, with or without conflux, with or without any mods made by him or by someone else.

As Simon Phoenix (Wesley Snipes) said in the Demoliton man: "You can't take the rights from people to be stupid."

[Jolly Joker]

If there were other humans in the game it would be so much easier to defeat your build order, because the 6 Efreet Sultans on day 8 would overwhelm your Cerberi with no problems, and then force you to concede resources and mines. The superior army would impede your expansion - not something the AI would do.

If we'd play on impossible you'd wouldn't have 6 Efreet Sultans (and would probably be dead already due to a mishandling of the economy).
If we'd play on expert I'd have no Cerberi - or, more correctly, I'd have them in addition to the REGULAR Efreets. Since you wouldn't have magic you were already dead then. Even Efreet Sultans die under Lightning or Ice Bolts.

Note, that if we WOULD play in the same game, both with Inferno, you wouldn't have Octavia - why would you have first pick? Instead, and depending on the amount of seriousness you'd want to go at it, everyone of us could name one or even more (Inferno) heroes forbidden for the opponent and even rule out the possibility that outside-Inferno-heroes (or at least a couple of them) could be hired to avoid lucky guest appearances. Fortunately the maps can be easily edited for that.
This is something, by the way, I advise for every MP game.

I agree, though, that the cheap City Hall prerequisites Marketplace and Blacksmith are wasted first week builds on expert. With the Hall of Sins NOT pre-built you'd go for Mage Guild, Town Hall, Hall of Sins, Demon Gate, Fire Lake, Citadel and either Kennels or Hell Hole, depending on the money situation: you have to spend a lot of it on day 8, after all, and with the second hero you already spend 16500 gold, but have regularly earned only 15500. Even with a couple of chests/gold piles found cash may be too low if you spend another 3000 for HH (not to mention 5 for Castle). You have to hire 5 Efreet on day 8 for 4500 and you have to spend another 6500 for City Hall and prerequisites soon and/or find an unlimited supply of out-of-town cash soon and liberate it.

[Banedon]

I agree, though, that the cheap City Hall prerequisites Marketplace and Blacksmith are wasted first week builds on expert. With the Hall of Sins NOT pre-built you'd go for Mage Guild, Town Hall, Hall of Sins, Demon Gate, Fire Lake, Citadel and either Kennels or Hell Hole, depending on the money situation: you have to spend a lot of it on day 8, after all, and with the second hero you already spend 16500 gold, but have regularly earned only 15500. Even with a couple of chests/gold piles found cash may be too low if you spend another 3000 for HH (not to mention 5 for Castle). You have to hire 5 Efreet on day 8 for 4500 and you have to spend another 6500 for City Hall and prerequisites soon and/or find an unlimited supply of out-of-town cash soon and liberate it.

Wait a moment. You're not building Mage Guild level 2. Where's the Ice Bolt and Lightning Bolt coming from? And, how many Efreet Sultans do you hope to kill with one Lightning Bolt? I've also shown you that it is entirely possible to reach Castle + 6 Efreet Sultans on day 8. You might want to look at those calculations again.

Note, that if we WOULD play in the same game, both with Inferno, you wouldn't have Octavia - why would you have first pick? Instead, and depending on the amount of seriousness you'd want to go at it, everyone of us could name one or even more (Inferno) heroes forbidden for the opponent and even rule out the possibility that outside-Inferno-heroes (or at least a couple of them) could be hired to avoid lucky guest appearances. Fortunately the maps can be easily edited for that.

If you picked Inferno I wouldn't play Inferno. As you wrote, the decisive factor can become whoever gets the hero he / she wants - and if we both want Octavia, there's no easy way to resolve it. I'd give you Inferno then and play another race (or else, if you like it that much, you can play Rampart with your day 8 Grand Elves while I annihilate you with the 6 Efreet Sultans).

PS:

It is important to note, that this guide was written for playing on very hard and impossible difficulty. Easier levels with more money and resources to start with allow a more aggressive style of play with more emphasis on early troop build-up, but it is strongly recommended to play at least on very hard and prefarably on impossible difficulty.

If you think that the Marketplace and Blacksmith are wasted buildings in the first week on Expert (I don't, by the way) then you have to think that your builds, advocating City Hall rush, is inferior. Did our discussion change your mind?

[Jolly Joker]

I agree, though, that the cheap City Hall prerequisites Marketplace and Blacksmith are wasted first week builds on expert. With the Hall of Sins NOT pre-built you'd go for Mage Guild, Town Hall, Hall of Sins, Demon Gate, Fire Lake, Citadel and either Kennels or Hell Hole, depending on the money situation: you have to spend a lot of it on day 8, after all, and with the second hero you already spend 16500 gold, but have regularly earned only 15500. Even with a couple of chests/gold piles found cash may be too low if you spend another 3000 for HH (not to mention 5 for Castle). You have to hire 5 Efreet on day 8 for 4500 and you have to spend another 6500 for City Hall and prerequisites soon and/or find an unlimited supply of out-of-town cash soon and liberate it.

Wait a moment. You're not building Mage Guild level 2. Where's the Ice Bolt and Lightning Bolt coming from? And, how many Efreet Sultans do you hope to kill with one Lightning Bolt? I've also shown you that it is entirely possible to reach Castle + 6 Efreet Sultans on day 8. You might want to look at those calculations again.

Note, that if we WOULD play in the same game, both with Inferno, you wouldn't have Octavia - why would you have first pick? Instead, and depending on the amount of seriousness you'd want to go at it, everyone of us could name one or even more (Inferno) heroes forbidden for the opponent and even rule out the possibility that outside-Inferno-heroes (or at least a couple of them) could be hired to avoid lucky guest appearances. Fortunately the maps can be easily edited for that.

If you picked Inferno I wouldn't play Inferno. As you wrote, the decisive factor can become whoever gets the hero he / she wants - and if we both want Octavia, there's no easy way to resolve it. I'd give you Inferno then and play another race (or else, if you like it that much, you can play Rampart with your day 8 Grand Elves while I annihilate you with the 6 Efreet Sultans).

PS:

It is important to note, that this guide was written for playing on very hard and impossible difficulty. Easier levels with more money and resources to start with allow a more aggressive style of play with more emphasis on early troop build-up, but it is strongly recommended to play at least on very hard and prefarably on impossible difficulty.

If you think that the Marketplace and Blacksmith are wasted buildings in the first week on Expert (I don't, by the way) then you have to think that your builds, advocating City Hall rush, is inferior. Did our discussion change your mind?

*Sigh*
No, no and no. You always make the same mistake.
How many years of playing experience do you have? Very obviously the guides are written for persons - as was said LOTS of times - who have NOT. It's therefore designed to be foolproof and safe in the first place with a view on being flexible (NOT concentrating on working with one special hero and so on) and playing against the AI (to establish a feel for the game and so on) and working on every conceivable map. IF THAT HAS BEEN DONE and playing skill is there you can go on from there and leave the guide behind.
I have a lot of playing experience as well, so when I say that Market and Blacksmith are wasted I mean, when *I* would play on expert I would consider them wasted. I would of course try to go for the best possible development - which would depend on the map. The balance between troop output and economy is hard to find. As opposed to you I always expect that I do NOT know the map in and out beforehand and that I do NOT play the hero I would like to have and so on.

If we'd play against each other you might never get the hero you want. Read again what I wrote about hero veto. If you wouldn't play Inferno if I'd play Inferno the situation you described would never occur anyway, so why bother? On the other hand, again, why would *I* have to pick my town first?

As I said, I detest the way a lot of people are playing (or have played) H3 mp. It's just no fun. You should be able to find your way through an unknown map with a nameless hero and make the most out of it.
Which closes this for me. You may play this évery way you like, but:

Do me a favor please: next time when you start a discussion, state on what grounds your claims are made. Like for example: I can play more effective than that if the following prerequisites are fulfilled: 1) I can pick a certain hero; 2) I know the map we play; well; 3) I pick the bonus 4) I know beforehand what my opponent(s) play and pick accordingly...
This will save us all a lot of time.

[Banedon]

If there exists a clearly superior strategy and build that you don't recommend because it's not easy to manage, you should write so somewhere. I wouldn't have any problems if you did. You didn't though, and the sheer scale of the guide(s) give the impression that this is a very thorough guide to the various factions, and so be the best possible way to play. You claim that very obviously the guides are written for persons who have not many years of playing experience. Well then, where's the disclaimer? Where's the banner that says, 'this guide assumes you are new to Heroes III'? Don't tell me you wrote them here in the forums. It should obviously be written in the guide itself.

If we'd play against each other you might never get the hero you want. Read again what I wrote about hero veto. If you wouldn't play Inferno if I'd play Inferno the situation you described would never occur anyway, so why bother? On the other hand, again, why would *I* have to pick my town first?

Goes like this.

I pick Inferno / Octavia.
You complain that I picked Octavia first, and that you'd rather play Inferno with Octavia.
I switch to (say) Rampart / Ivor.
You complain that I picked Ivor first, and that you'd rather play Rampart with Ivor.
I switch to Inferno / Octavia.

We can dance around all we want, to the same results. As for hero vetos, I would only ban heroes with clearly broken special abilities (Kyre, Sir Mullich, Gelu, etc). I will oppose banning Octavia, Ivor and Crag Hack, and I don't see why you support such banning. If your reason is it leads to picking the same heroes over and over again, and to tasteless play, I'll link you to that video again. In serious play, you play to win the game, no more, no less. Maybe in less serious play you don't - but then your guides should (again) make mention of this.

Do me a favor please: next time when you start a discussion, state on what grounds your claims are made. Like for example: I can play more effective than that if the following prerequisites are fulfilled: 1) I can pick a certain hero; 2) I know the map we play; well; 3) I pick the bonus 4) I know beforehand what my opponent(s) play and pick accordingly...
This will save us all a lot of time.

Do me a favour too. Write in your guides that:

1. The guides are intended for new players, and new players only (and tell Pitsu to change the foreword too).
2. The guide assumes you cannot pick the hero you want to; if you can then [insert things] change.
3. The guide assumes you do not know the map well; if you know the map well then [insert things] change.
4. The guide assumes you cannot pick the bonus; if you can then [insert things] change.
5. The guide is intended for Impossible difficulty. If you wrote that claim somewhere I wouldn't dispute anything, because Efreet Sultan rushing on Impossible is clearly impossible. But if you claim it works for Expert as well you'll have to prove the claim.

[Jolly Joker]

Goes like this.

I pick Inferno / Octavia.
You complain that I picked Octavia first, and that you'd rather play Inferno with Octavia.
I switch to (say) Rampart / Ivor.
You complain that I picked Ivor first, and that you'd rather play Rampart with Ivor.
I switch to Inferno / Octavia.

We can dance around all we want, to the same results. As for hero vetos, I would only ban heroes with clearly broken special abilities (Kyre, Sir Mullich, Gelu, etc). I will oppose banning Octavia, Ivor and Crag Hack, and I don't see why you support such banning. If your reason is it leads to picking the same heroes over and over again, and to tasteless play, I'll link you to that video again. In serious play, you play to win the game, no more, no less. Maybe in less serious play you don't - but then your guides should (again) make mention of this.

It doesn't go like this. It goes like this:
A player starts specifying the town he want to play; he does this by stating, for example THREE towns (I play either Inferno or Dungeon or Castle). Now the OTHER player picks the town HE wants to play - let's say Rampart. Now the first player picks one of the three he named - let's say Inferno.
AFTER the towns are established, but BEFORE a hero is picked the heroes are vetoed. It doesn't matter who begins and you CAN allow as many vetos as you can agree upon, but I would advise TWO (and note, that if both are playing the same town EACH one would have to veto the same hero to make them impossible for both). So the Inferno player would say for example, Ivor and Kyrre, while the Rampart player might say, for example, Octavia and Nymus. After that you can either pick your hero or play random. In fact, for the SERIOUS play you mentioned, you should even edit the map to play to put the vetoed heroes out and mark for both players only the allowed heroes of their own faction. You don't want to end playing on a tight map and find after you lost that the other player has 4 350 gold heroes employed as relais stations for troop swapping.

And as a last remark, no, you don't play to win, because winning isn't a purpose in itself. You play to have fun (sadly, for some fun and winning is the same) and have a good time. If you haven't a good time (because you don't enjoy yourself), playing is a waste of time. After all, this is only a game - and one of chance at that.

[Banedon]

That's how you play, not me, nor - I believe - the majority of players. So if you're basing your guide off that particular method of playing, you have to write it down as well.

[Jolly Joker]

The majority of mp players don't need a guide anyway.
Those who do need one shouldn't play with said majority anyway - at least not under their conditions.