I usually leave it random. I don't have any particular strategy for neither of them, I just improvise as the game progresses. My usual victory is Tower of Mastery, Religion or Altar, so builder civs are better for that: Kuriotates, Ljosalfar, Khazad... Unfortunately, I haven't played FfH since early spring.
You?
Civ IV
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theLuckyDragon
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Just elves and dwarves. Overall, I think the elves get the best stuff. I usually get the Baron and head for the wilderness. When I get back, my Werewolves roll over everybody. I don't build many disciples but I make it a point to control the seas. I don't usually start wars, but it seems someone always decides to take a shot at one of my ships.
Next game I'm going to try the Bannor and Order.
Next game I'm going to try the Bannor and Order.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.
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theLuckyDragon
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theLuckyDragon
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I'm not sure what you get there. If both the 'vanilla' game and the Warlords expansion, it's a good deal.
Of course, I bought them both when they came out and have preordered the second expansion due next month (thru CH, of course). I play more Civ than Heroes these days, if that gives you some idea of the value there. The battles are not as colorful as in Heroes, but the city building is much more challenging and fun. Good AI and marvelous mods. No storytelling or campaigns, but there are some interesting scenarios.
Of course, I bought them both when they came out and have preordered the second expansion due next month (thru CH, of course). I play more Civ than Heroes these days, if that gives you some idea of the value there. The battles are not as colorful as in Heroes, but the city building is much more challenging and fun. Good AI and marvelous mods. No storytelling or campaigns, but there are some interesting scenarios.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.
I went ahead and bought Civ4, and I like it (although it has some of the same problems that earlier versions had). I can't quite get my finger around the new religion system though. Any advice, as it pertains to civilization building?
Also, dumb question maybe, but is there any way to rush a build by purchasing it, as you could in CivIII?
Also, dumb question maybe, but is there any way to rush a build by purchasing it, as you could in CivIII?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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theLuckyDragon
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You can purchase buildings when you have access to the last Civic in the first column. I'm sorry, I haven't played vanilla in a loooooong while, so I can't remember the name. 
As for religion, it's a useful tool to increase happiness in cities and, with the appropriate buildings, gain some extra money. I think there's a wonder that gives +1 gold for each building of that religion, enabled by the same tech that gives Islamism. Also, religion can play an important part in diplomatic relations. If you sign open-borders with a neighbour, don't forget to send some missionaries if you have a religion, then they might adopt it and become friendlier.
As for religion, it's a useful tool to increase happiness in cities and, with the appropriate buildings, gain some extra money. I think there's a wonder that gives +1 gold for each building of that religion, enabled by the same tech that gives Islamism. Also, religion can play an important part in diplomatic relations. If you sign open-borders with a neighbour, don't forget to send some missionaries if you have a religion, then they might adopt it and become friendlier.
"Not all those who wander are lost." -- JRRT
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Gaidal Cain
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If you get a religion Great Person, you can use it to construct a special building in a city where a religion was founded that gives 1 gold per city with that religion. I try to make sure I found at least one rligion for this reason, and since it does help with happiness.
Since Civ4 has improved a lot on Civ 3, including what I thought was perhaps it's biggest shortcoming (that starting points could be very uneven, which would influence the whole game), I would like to hear what it is that you find lacking.
Since Civ4 has improved a lot on Civ 3, including what I thought was perhaps it's biggest shortcoming (that starting points could be very uneven, which would influence the whole game), I would like to hear what it is that you find lacking.
You don't want to make enemies in Nuclear Engineering. -- T. Pratchett
Knights still losing to cavemen in combat. Actually in general I think the combat system for CivIII was easier to follow. I find it hard just by looking at a given unit how upgraded it is. Granted, there are more upgrading capabilities, but I'm not sure that's an improvement in this case.
Actually in general I think the combat system for CivIII was easier to follow. I find it hard just by looking at a given unit how upgraded it is. Granted, there are more upgrading capabilities, but I'm not sure that's an improvement in this case."What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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Infiltrator
- CH Staff
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A few more "dislikes", though since I've only played the game once, and like all Civs it's pretty complicated, so I may have just not figured out how to do things yet.
1. I miss the castle-building screen of earlier incarnations. It was stupid and pointless but always a nice diversion.
2. Government types seem to have been lost among all the "civics" clutter. I played through the game and never changed my government type. This seems to have destroyed a dimension of the game.
3. Diplomacy seems to be impossible. There's no easy way that I can see to improve relations, because unless your relations are at a certain level, you can't do anything. No trading, no treaties, nothing. Everything is redded out. So the people who were annoyed with me were perpetually annoyed with me. Even giving them gifts of gold (all I could do) doesn't seem to do anything.
4. No war-heroes?
5. The famous people are neat, but most of the time I don't really know what to do with them. The "famous trader" person seems VERY unbalanced. After getting one or two of them, money was never a problem again.
6. I also miss the screens that showed a mini-model of each city if you wanted. There doesn't seem to be a convenient way to determine what's in your cities.
7. The religion aspect is a nice new dimension, but its still not clear to me how it affects the game, and there are WAY too many religious improvements to choose from. I could spend millenia just building temples and cathedrals.
8. What the heck use are spies? And I can't seem to get my aircraft carriers to carry aircraft. What am I doing wrong?
9. Finally, I miss the personality of the leaders. They used to dress up depending on what era you were in. And I loved when they looked beat up when they lost. In some senses the game has a little less personality - and a sense of the flow of time - than earlier games.
I don't know. Don't get me wrong: the game is good and addictive in the same way that earlier Civ games were, but right now I'm feeling that CivIII was the high point in the series. CivIV seems like too... hmm.. cluttered with stuff that doesn't really seem to have much obvious effect on the game. In CivIII it was very easy and intuitive how to micromanage city growth, but it's not at all obvious to me how things work in this new version. Maybe that will come with time. I didn't like CivIII that much at first either.
Edit: But - I do love the visuals and the music.
1. I miss the castle-building screen of earlier incarnations. It was stupid and pointless but always a nice diversion.
2. Government types seem to have been lost among all the "civics" clutter. I played through the game and never changed my government type. This seems to have destroyed a dimension of the game.
3. Diplomacy seems to be impossible. There's no easy way that I can see to improve relations, because unless your relations are at a certain level, you can't do anything. No trading, no treaties, nothing. Everything is redded out. So the people who were annoyed with me were perpetually annoyed with me. Even giving them gifts of gold (all I could do) doesn't seem to do anything.
4. No war-heroes?
5. The famous people are neat, but most of the time I don't really know what to do with them. The "famous trader" person seems VERY unbalanced. After getting one or two of them, money was never a problem again.
6. I also miss the screens that showed a mini-model of each city if you wanted. There doesn't seem to be a convenient way to determine what's in your cities.
7. The religion aspect is a nice new dimension, but its still not clear to me how it affects the game, and there are WAY too many religious improvements to choose from. I could spend millenia just building temples and cathedrals.
8. What the heck use are spies? And I can't seem to get my aircraft carriers to carry aircraft. What am I doing wrong?
9. Finally, I miss the personality of the leaders. They used to dress up depending on what era you were in. And I loved when they looked beat up when they lost. In some senses the game has a little less personality - and a sense of the flow of time - than earlier games.
I don't know. Don't get me wrong: the game is good and addictive in the same way that earlier Civ games were, but right now I'm feeling that CivIII was the high point in the series. CivIV seems like too... hmm.. cluttered with stuff that doesn't really seem to have much obvious effect on the game. In CivIII it was very easy and intuitive how to micromanage city growth, but it's not at all obvious to me how things work in this new version. Maybe that will come with time. I didn't like CivIII that much at first either.
Edit: But - I do love the visuals and the music.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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theLuckyDragon
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I liked that one tooCorribus wrote:1. I miss the castle-building screen of earlier incarnations. It was stupid and pointless but always a nice diversion.
You haven't changed your civics at all?2. Government types seem to have been lost among all the "civics" clutter. I played through the game and never changed my government type. This seems to have destroyed a dimension of the game.
Organized Religion is good for production in the early and mid game. You might try Theocracy if you want to stop an enemy from spreading their religion to your lands and gives the units you build their first promotion with those +2 exp points. Free Religion eliminates all negative diplomacy modifiers caused by following different religions, at the expense of renouncing your state religion.
State property eliminates maintenance costs for distance from palace while Free market allows more trade in your cities.
Serfdom helps with terrain improvements, and Emancipation puts your cottages in fast forward, which means more money faster.
Bureaucracy is great for your capital, and Free speech is good if you're after a cultural victory.
Hereditary rule is a nice way to control hapiness in your cities early on, while Universal Suffrage is the only civic that allows you to buy improvements.
Having the same religion helps. Fighting againts a common enemy also, IIRC. Oh, and adopting the leader's favourite civic also gives a positive modifier.3. Diplomacy
What do you mean?4. No war-heroes?
Use prophets to build Religious Shrines, scientists to build great academies (subsequent scientists should be turned into super specialists in the city with the great academy), engineers to hurry up wonders, traders to make money and explore enemy lands, artists to push your borders. Use any of them to get a certain tech if you want it. Or you could always turn them into super-specialists in your cities to improve production/commerce/food/research/culture.5. The famous people are neat, but most of the time I don't really know what to do with them. The "famous trader" person seems VERY unbalanced. After getting one or two of them, money was never a problem again.
Yeah, I liked that one too, but now since it's 3D, they probably thought a zoom in on the city would cover that function. For me, it doesn't.6. I also miss the screens that showed a mini-model of each city if you wanted. There doesn't seem to be a convenient way to determine what's in your cities.
What's unclear? As for the temples and cathedrals... well, that's where you have to make your choices. Do I build this or do I build that?7. The religion aspect is a nice new dimension, but its still not clear to me how it affects the game, and there are WAY too many religious improvements to choose from. I could spend millenia just building temples and cathedrals.
The manual contains an Afterword by Soren Johnson, the Lead Designer. He says they tried to reduce micromanagement because it was something "high on the list of things people didn't like about Civ".In CivIII it was very easy and intuitive how to micromanage city growth, but it's not at all obvious to me how things work in this new version.
City-monitoring so that they don't go into disorder was replaced with the angry citizen system, in which certain citizens simply don't work.
Bouncing around citizens to prevent waste of production was replaced with making extra production from a project carry on to the next one.
There are more examples in the afterword.
In short, they wanted to make it "more fun".
Read the afterword, it's an interesting insight into what they thought when they made the game.
Me tooEdit: But - I do love the visuals and the music.
"Not all those who wander are lost." -- JRRT
I have... but I take it these have replaced the old government designations?You haven't changed your civics at all?
I haven't seen any military leaders yet, as they had in Civ3 that let you build armies of multiple units, but maybe it's just because I haven't played enough?What do you mean?4. No war-heroes?
Could you explain more what the superspecialists do, exactly?Use prophets to build Religious Shrines, scientists to build great academies (subsequent scientists should be turned into super specialists in the city with the great academy), engineers to hurry up wonders, traders to make money and explore enemy lands, artists to push your borders. Use any of them to get a certain tech if you want it. Or you could always turn them into super-specialists in your cities to improve production/commerce/food/research/culture.
What's unclear is that the different religions don't, at least not yet that I can see, have an obvious effect on the gameplay. I'm building all this religious stuff, and missionaries, and whatnot, but aside from increasing my culture rating, what is point?What's unclear? As for the temples and cathedrals... well, that's where you have to make your choices. Do I build this or do I build that?
Oh... I kind of liked it though.The manual contains an Afterword by Soren Johnson, the Lead Designer. He says they tried to reduce micromanagement because it was something "high on the list of things people didn't like about Civ".
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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theLuckyDragon
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Yes, the civics replace the goverments. They allow you to be more flexible with how you run your state.
Military Leaders: there are none in Civ4 Vanilla. They're a feature of the Warlords expansion pack. There are no armies in Civ4 as there were in Civ3.
Superspecialists are like normal specialists (you have + and - buttons in the city screen to adjust the number of normal specialists), but have an increased output. I think if you hover your mouse over the "Join City" button when a Great Person is selected, it tells you exactly how many hammers/beakers/food/culture that person will produce. Superspecialists also contribute great people points, so that you can get more of them.
Religion: you can use it to make money. You can use it with Organized Religion to boost production in cities. Or with Theocracy to give newly built units +2 exp points, which often means their first promotion.
Military Leaders: there are none in Civ4 Vanilla. They're a feature of the Warlords expansion pack. There are no armies in Civ4 as there were in Civ3.
Superspecialists are like normal specialists (you have + and - buttons in the city screen to adjust the number of normal specialists), but have an increased output. I think if you hover your mouse over the "Join City" button when a Great Person is selected, it tells you exactly how many hammers/beakers/food/culture that person will produce. Superspecialists also contribute great people points, so that you can get more of them.
Religion: you can use it to make money. You can use it with Organized Religion to boost production in cities. Or with Theocracy to give newly built units +2 exp points, which often means their first promotion.
"Not all those who wander are lost." -- JRRT
I think Lucky covered most of it, but I'd like to add a couple of points:
Leader traits are very important to the strategies you use, not just bonuses as you might think.
The promotions system adds a strategic element, and yes, gives a Barbarian a chance against a Knight. But in CIV 4 the combat odds are stiffly tilted to the stronger unit, as you can see. Yet it is possible to get 100% odds. If you think promotions are confusing, wait till you try Fall from Heaven.
For City management, check out the little panel at the bottom where you can do things like 'maximize production'.
Religion leads to happiness, which becomes a critical factor as city sizes grow. With multiple religions, you can build a powerhouse.
The flavor of the game changes according to the victory condition you pursue. For instance, with skillful play, a weak civilization can win a diplomatic victory. Or a space racer can skip building the military and pacify neighbors with tech gifts. (BTW: Most leaders would rather get a Tech than Gold. Music is a great one, since it does not make them stronger, but they like it anyway. Later, give out hit singles.)
Don't forget to mod:for more Civs, leaders, resources, etc. get Amra. For better maps get Smartmap, and for a whole nother game get Fall from Heaven.
Leader traits are very important to the strategies you use, not just bonuses as you might think.
The promotions system adds a strategic element, and yes, gives a Barbarian a chance against a Knight. But in CIV 4 the combat odds are stiffly tilted to the stronger unit, as you can see. Yet it is possible to get 100% odds. If you think promotions are confusing, wait till you try Fall from Heaven.
For City management, check out the little panel at the bottom where you can do things like 'maximize production'.
Religion leads to happiness, which becomes a critical factor as city sizes grow. With multiple religions, you can build a powerhouse.
The flavor of the game changes according to the victory condition you pursue. For instance, with skillful play, a weak civilization can win a diplomatic victory. Or a space racer can skip building the military and pacify neighbors with tech gifts. (BTW: Most leaders would rather get a Tech than Gold. Music is a great one, since it does not make them stronger, but they like it anyway. Later, give out hit singles.)
Don't forget to mod:for more Civs, leaders, resources, etc. get Amra. For better maps get Smartmap, and for a whole nother game get Fall from Heaven.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.
Hi Caradoc -
I've played a little more and I'm getting used to the changes. I was wondering if you could comment more on what you said here:
I've played a little more and I'm getting used to the changes. I was wondering if you could comment more on what you said here:
and here:Leader traits are very important to the strategies you use, not just bonuses as you might think.
Which mods, exactly, and what is Fall from Heaven? Also, have you played the new expansion yet? Which expansion is better, IYO?Don't forget to mod:for more Civs, leaders, resources, etc. get Amra. For better maps get Smartmap, and for a whole nother game get Fall from Heaven.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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theLuckyDragon
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Fall from Heaven is a fantasy themed mod for Civilization 4 that right now is at version 0.23, but already has a lot of awesome and fun features. It is one of the most complex mods I've ever seen and it's based on a D&D campaign of Kael's (the one who started it all). The people behind it are an extremely dedicated team. A scenario based on FfH was even included in the second expansion (other fan-made mods also made it in).
The general trend is that once you try FfH, you seldom go back to vanilla
Site: http://kael.civfanatics.net/
Forum: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1901
The general trend is that once you try FfH, you seldom go back to vanilla
Site: http://kael.civfanatics.net/
Forum: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1901
"Not all those who wander are lost." -- JRRT
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