Academy Strategy Thread

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
Destro23
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2007

Unread postby Destro23 » 21 Jun 2007, 01:44

Charts and number theory mean absolutely nothing. They are a very poor gauge of how effective or ineffective a unit or faction actually is.

For example, how many level 7's powergrowth do you figure is lower than a pit lord? I can however gurantee without any doubt that in a 1 on 1 combat any level 7 unit will fall to a pit lord. With the possible exception of the Titan (Pending on terrain disadvantage)

I'll add a few tidbits I use for different factions..

Vs Dungeon (auto win) You kill Mistress, then counterspell. 9 times out of 10 you play a full on caster dungeon hero and this strategy essentially cripples them. War Machines are your friend here, as is attack -- archery -- Flaming arrows if possible. The warlocks creatures lack defense in a big way, a full frontal assault will make short work of these. If you have build a guild prior to filling out your skill trees, or anticipate a utopia, mage vault, or pyramid Dark magic is also devastating to the warlocks army.

Vs Haven -- Summoning magic and light magic are my choices here, potantially taking defense skill. This faction needs a bit of might + magical mixture, if you can out last them with motw and ressurcetions / phantoms with your huge mana pool this fight can easily be yours, if they have went the dark knight route, your job is much easier. Keep in mind also, your units are not affected by your own firetraps, move units in such a way that paladins are forced to run through multiple mines to get a good joust on you. In addition Motw + phantom forces will win you this battle. For me I find the best way to go is Motw your titans.. then at first chance Phantom your genies, the genie phantoms can fly to kill opposing archers, allowing your main forces to pelt the now in range paladin. For this match up I would suggest equipping shooters with mini arts to cripple the havens defense score as well as initiative, and probably luck (as you probably don't have room for luck in skill tree if all goes well)

Vs Inferno -- Again Dark Magic if possible makes this combat very easy. Banish is also a must have here, without banish the inferno will walk all over you, as stated above you need to be on the lookout for teleport assault, especially when leaving open spaces for Phantom Forces, a well timed TA on Horned Overseers to the square beside the gremlins is a very very bad thing. For this matchup, if you don't have banish you need to ignore the gates as much as possible, his army dies, the hero and gates die with it. With your low defense score and infernos ridiculous inflated attack this combat can end very quickly if your not careful.

vs Sylvan -- I can't comment well here, but I expect that should you survive 1-2 combat turns and your archers are still alive and unblocked you are headed to a victory. This is another matchup flaming arrows would be great against.

Vs Necropolis -- This for me has been the most challenging of battles for academy, necropolis is a very tough army and hero for the academy to beat. By the time you are ready to tangle his army outweighs your heavily, he probably has intellegence and certainly motn, making his mana just as bottomless as yours. The one main difference in fact is that the necro is going to be casting 10+ spell power higher than you are. A more mighty approach might work best here. The other option is aramgeddon tactics. You can easily blast a necro army to with a few different lv5-6 heroes and 7 gargoyles each and then your main hero with the rest of gargs. (Note: When using this strategy always ensure that you main will in fact be able to run if need be.)

vs Fortress --- ??? I don't have anything to add here. I don't enjoy playing vs this faction I find them complete imbalanced without any correlation to which faction you are.

Mirrir Match -- One of two methods can go from this. My personal favorite is War Machines, Attack, Summoning magic, Enlightenement, and one of Logs, Defense, sorcery, or luck. The other is to outlast them with the help of lightmagic. This is not a really hard mirror match, but it will come down to key unit placement (on both sides) and good game play.


As for the building sequence.. I don't know maybe its just the maps I play.. but I take a look at town level on day 1 and decide what level creature I can get to. I do not build mage guilds, or income driving structures until week 2 at the earliest. I am always aiming for collosi + castle on or before week 2 day 7, and hoping to upgrade to titans in early week 3. I ALWAYS skip building Rakshasa all together, I find the unit very good yes... but its cost per unit and the building upgrade is just more money and resources than I can afford. I'd rather just have a couple stacks of archmages and a full guild earlier.

I take my spells from shrines and vault type structures. And then fro guild prior to fighting an enemy hero.

Thats all for now

oh and nice post Elvin.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 21 Jun 2007, 01:59

Destro23 wrote: arts and number theory mean absolutely nothing. They are a very poor gauge of how effective or ineffective a unit or faction actually is.
For example, how many level 7's powergrowth do you figure is lower than a pit lord? I can however gurantee without any doubt that in a 1 on 1 combat any level 7 unit will fall to a pit lord. With the possible exception of the Titan (Pending on terrain disadvantage)
Same thing with the Wraith.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 21 Jun 2007, 03:54

Miru I'm not sure exactly what your figure is plotting. Could you define your axess, particularly the Y-axis (power growth)?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 21 Jun 2007, 04:00

Destro23 wrote:Vs Dungeon (auto win) You kill Mistress, then counterspell. 9 times out of 10 you play a full on caster dungeon hero and this strategy essentially cripples them. War Machines are your friend here, as is attack -- archery -- Flaming arrows if possible. The warlocks creatures lack defense in a big way, a full frontal assault will make short work of these. If you have build a guild prior to filling out your skill trees, or anticipate a utopia, mage vault, or pyramid Dark magic is also devastating to the warlocks army.
Why would taking out the mistresses cripple them?
For [the inferno] matchup, if you don't have banish you need to ignore the gates as much as possible, his army dies, the hero and gates die with it.
I think this applies generally. I always ignore the gated creatures. In most cases, the higher-tiered primary stacks are of more concern anyway.

Vs Necropolis -- This for me has been the most challenging of battles for academy, necropolis is a very tough army and hero for the academy to beat.
Really? At first glance I would think the necropolis would match up poorly against academy due to nonliving status of many academy creatures.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 21 Jun 2007, 04:04

That's assuming a Necropolis player relies heavily on Dark Magic. More specifically Decay, Berserk, and Puppet Master, with a little Banshee Howl thrown in for good fun.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 21 Jun 2007, 08:01

Interesting, I'll have to take a look again more cafefully when I return :) One thing though. If you focus on the matriarchs in the dungeon match, wouldn't they have have cast what they want by the time you kill them? Or give the warlock an edge by leaving his other units alive?

I would certainly try to blind or frenzy them instead of trying to kill them, assuming I had the spells :D

About the academy building I wonder...Seems that a castle with colossi would seriously boost the wizard's army and that's essential. I'll try it to see the difference but also what I'll have to sacrifice as I couldn't do it always in the past.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 21 Jun 2007, 15:18

In past HoMM iterations, I almost never bought giants (colossi), because they were pretty worthless, especially compared to titans. But it seems many people feel that Colossi are quite useful in HoMM5; is that so? Do you use them primarily as tanks, or as defensive placeholders? Are they more useful against certain factions than others?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 21 Jun 2007, 18:15

Actually I don't buy them at first but they are the easiest to build during week 2 and thus accumulate. I will only buy them if I am invaded and need a stack with relatively good staying power or if I wish to attack powerful shooters and I want something to take the first blow. In any case, the opponent will want to come to your side of the field and their damage and hp are good enough to defend you.

The reason I will usually not buy them stems from the fact that I can creep without them but also because the titan upgrade is easy to get and then you'd rather have all of your colossi.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

Destro23
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2007

Unread postby Destro23 » 23 Jun 2007, 01:44

SOrry I have been away for a couple of days,

In response to the matriarch thing. As we all know the matriarchs can eat your counterspell, since there spells are relatively useless when comparing them to lucky empowered meteor shower, we don't want them stealing counterspell (ie hero actions) So we remove these from the equation, and then with the only caster remaining being the warlock you should with your large mana poll be able to counter all his offense while you army crushes his low defense creatures.
EDIT - For dungeon matchups I will normally go with Artificer, offense, war machines, summoning magic, sorcery and enlightenment. This creates for me at least the best anti magic hero. Summoning magic is more predictable and reliable to build from the start then dark magic will be. You need enlightenment for intellegence (remember that the warlocks empowered spells are very expensive to counter) I find summoning magic augments the full attack strategy well with phantoms, summons, or firewall/trap. There will be times however you are unable to get Offense(2%) If this should happen you can move into dark magic or luck or light magic. The problem is that by the time you are decided that offense is not being offered it may be too late to develope dark magic to expert level. Not to mention it may or may not be offered in the later skill choices, taking it too early in the game is a mistake in my opinion, unless for some reason you have fleshed out the mage guild very early in the match.


In response to the Inferno Question -- Yes of course you always avoid killing gated stacks, but there are times you'd rather a kill a stack or two of hefty dmg dealers like cerberus or possibly a lucky gated stack of succubi. Sometimes the stack power of the gated group is too much to leave on the field for the duration of combat. At least this is my experience.

When facing an Academy using necropolis myslef I won't go for dark magic unless I see a cloak of sandro around. Summoning magic here is much better, and is where I have found the most difficulty Vs Necropolis. The necromancer has a high defense rating in comparison to your academy heros attack score. With MotN, unless you are using Nur the necromancer will outlast you with mana, and his spell power will also be substantially higher. Phoenix or Elementals, or even very high dmg firewalls and traps are deadly. In addition to these dmg spells the necromancer will be using raise dead as his stacks get too low for comfort. If he for some reason does not have a phoenix an Arcane Armor is extremely powerful when facing a hero with such low combat statistics. Keep in mind your average caster necromancer is going to be packing enlightenment meaning by level 20 both his defense scores and power scores are going to be large. I've had combats with a necromancer before that I have him down to 2-3 mana and I finally run out of steam, usually there is 1-2 stacks alive of his at this time, but now is his turn to begin the raising. This is an extremely difficult match when playing vs a skilled necropolis player.

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 24 Jun 2007, 02:40

@Destro -
Yes when fighting necromancers, with any faction, the raise dead spell is particularly vexing. How do you best like to deal with it, playing academy?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 24 Jun 2007, 11:02

A few things until he comes back to comment. Raise dead does reduce the units' hp each time so as long as you can keep attacking you have the advantage. Naturally that's a spell towards the end of the battle as that would weaken the army beforehand. Motw + resurrection or even raise dead can do just the same except you'll usually be able to cast faster. I'd guess you must have enough mana as opposed to the necro's motn.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

Destro23
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2007

Unread postby Destro23 » 24 Jun 2007, 23:29

The main goal for me anyway to battle vs raise dead is to kill his stacks outright, after they are dead if you stand a unit or a summoned unit on the corpse they cannot raise it. This becomes increasingly difficult as the combat progresses, cause if you have a very strong stack standing on another strong stack you dont want to move it. However, if you do start to spread out shooters and such on longer battles when stacks are become less and less it forces there army to choose a shooter to block ect.

Another tactic I use frequently is for inferno anyway (I don't think there is other factions that can do this) But consume corpse removes the corpse entirely from the battlefield, so assuming your eating all of his fallen stacks, he will never be able to ressurect it. In this particular matchup your hero will mainly be dropping 2-3 curses in the early phases of combat and then be using motd or attacking, so a turn spent eating a stack of 95 vampire lords is well worth the turn, mana regen aside.

Its also possible to try and drain his mana. However the main problem comes when you have that last stack of his left.. you know the one I mean... yes that pesky group of 200+ plague zombies, he drops mark of the necromancer on this unit and your now dwindled forces beat up on it regening him at least 9 mana per turn.. and this is assuming he doesn't have arcane training to make that spell cost even less. Unfortunately your army at this stage often cannot kill the stack outright, and so he is able to raise other stacks while your armies are trying to pelt this one into submission.

Clearly in the Academy/Necro matchup I would opt for Nur everytime, Nur can win a battle of attrition vs motn most other heros when on an equal playing field can fail. Naturally mini artifacts can help alot, I like the -def per hit one this allows you to cut the stacks down much faster forcing him to lose precious time. The necromancers staying power is what wins him final battles, if you can side step this you win. But even the best looking battle can go south very very very fast at the end when he starts raising and your mana is gone.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 24 Jun 2007, 23:59

I have used that trick on occasion but I totally forgot it this time! Added in the necropolis section.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Caradoc
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1780
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Marble Falls Texas

Unread postby Caradoc » 25 Jun 2007, 03:42

The Necro stack that drives me crazy are those Spectres. By the time you get land a hit, he's raised the ones you just killed.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 25 Jun 2007, 03:58

Those are a royal pain to fight.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

Destro23
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 23
Joined: 08 Jun 2007

Unread postby Destro23 » 25 Jun 2007, 04:02

Spectres die to magic.. I don't bother trying to land physical attacks. And if I do attack physically, keep in mind that you can only miss 3 times in a row, the 4th will hit. So if you do count 3 misses try and hit it with a nice big stack that will cripple it good.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 25 Jun 2007, 04:06

A good way to take care of them, with the Fortress anyways, is to use Warlords and attack a unit standing next to them or use the special. The spectres can't avoid the additional electrical damage. Also I'm sure Titans could take care of them with Call Lightning.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 25 Jun 2007, 08:39

Usually they are numerous and the titans can only kill so many.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

Hocoino
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 May 2007

Unread postby Hocoino » 27 Jun 2007, 22:49

Ok, first post… lil nervous cuz you all seem to really know your stuff.

I am going to go a little backwards and talk about how I would face Academy in battle if from the perspective of each of the opposing factions. I will also list useful skills to take when facing academy

Sylvan: As a might town my troops are generally stronger than his. He makes up for this by having far superior magic skills. My tactic would be to collect Light Magic and cast mass buff spell on my troops on every turn. The best scenario would be to have him try to counter my buffs with curses of his own. If he casts mass slow, then simply recast mass haste. You have the high knowledge to be able to match him spell for spell, and because sorcery won’t effect mass spells you’ll be able to cast about the same speed too. Trading curses like this might seem annoying, but it will work to your benefit. Your troops are better b/c of your higher stats and your luck (every sylvan goes for luck, or should especially with all the creature abilities sylvan has) you will have the advantage. If he tries several summons, then ignore them, continue to bash his troops and buff your own, and you’ll eventually finish him off.
Useful Skills (in order of importance): Soldiers Luck, Master of Wrath, Master of Abjuration, Master of Blessing,

Inferno: If you are sure he doesn’t have Banish, then I recommend you gate everything you have on your very first turn. If there is even a doubt that he might have it, then I recommend you stagger your Gates. Start with Pit Fiends, and Horned Demons, and then after he clears them off w/ Banish then use your Imps, Nightmares and Cerberus, if he clears them I’d then Gate my Sucbusses. When he is banishing he’s not casting and that’s what you want. Use Luck and leadership and hopefully your nightmares can have soldiers luck trigger several instances of Fear. Full Speed Ahead! Charge into them and finish them off. Obtain the Cleansing spell in case he uses puppet master, and MotD Titans or Mages, I like to avoid Rakashas because if they use Dash the mark is not triggered.
Useful Skills (in order of importance): Soldiers Luck, Swift Gating, Battle Frenzy, Swarming Gate, Gate Master, Hellfire, Expert Luck,

Haven: Haven have a huge gap in min and max damage, so it’s important to use Mass Divine Strength. If he casts mass weakness try to cast Divine Strength, a magic stalemate isn’t as great for Haven as it is for Sylvan but we’ll make do if that’s what happens. We also have benediction (a super nerfed prayer) which is decent if you cast it initially but after that you’ll want to use your divine strength. Always battle dive your gryphons onto titans, if they take the damage, fine; you’ve hurt his stack w/o being counter attacked, if he moves, also fine, he wasted a turn he should have used attacking. If he blocks in any ranged unit then target that one if it worth killing. Inquistors can outshoot mages and gremlins combined. High morale will be very useful for you. Paladins who trigger morale boosts are lethal weapon.
Useful Skills (in order of importance): Master of Blessings, Expert Leadership, Protection, Archery, Evasion, Expert Defense, Expert Attack,

Dungeon: When he sees you are Dungeon, he will load up on resistence and magic protection, so I like to go Summoning magic. Get a phoenix, and hope he does too. Look forward to some hot phoenix on phoenix action! You have much higher spell power and your phoenix will crush his and move on to another target. Sorcery is mandatory of course. The trouble will be your mana pool. Keep it as high as you can, through artifacts or whatever you can. Intelligence is a very good skill for Warlocks. Teleport Assault your hydras into his ranged units and cast Arcane Armor. Watch the fun begin. His magic res. will be useless. Now that your Hydras are in his midst, cast Phantom Force on them. It’s not ideal use of your awesome spell power, but he won’t expect it, and it will hurt.
Note: if playing against somebody you know will have little magical protection like an easy comp. then just do the normal boring build of Expert Destruction, keep everything but Hydras and Dragons off the field and just cast til they die.
Useful Skills (in order of importance, Expert Sorcery, Teleport Assault, Intelligence, Expert Summoning, Master of Conj. Expert Attack,


Necropolis: Max your racial skill ASAP(as always), get Skeleton Archers production up quickly(again as always), and then buff your stats. Because of your low mana pool I wait til late about 3 to 4 turns in to try to raise dead, until then I’ll use Banshee Howl and curse his troops. He can’t use puppet master on your undead so he might try to curse you. If he curses you then you’ll just have to live with it. Power of speed will cost you archery skill but against academy it’s worth it. Phantom Force on your skeletons is obvious but useful against anybody, bring down the upper tier units first. Be cautious with vamps, b/c when they are in close they can be gangbanged down real quick, send some specters and wraiths up at the same time even if you have to wait to do it. Alone they are too vulnerable to 3 ranged stacks hitting you at full force.
Usefull Skills: Pwr of speed, Vitality, Expert Summoning, Master of Life,


Now that you know what your enemy is capable of hopefully you’ll be able to deal with it and shut him down.

I’m working on one for sylvan, should have it up tomorrow,


If these are not helpful then tell me, I’ll keep writing them as long as they are doing some good.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 27 Jun 2007, 23:23

Actually the approach is pretty interesting though I don't have a clear head to comment on it right now. I'll be sure to make a post about it within the next few days, maybe tomorrow but in the meantime I'd tell you to go on.

Actually I have thought it from the same approach - at least to an extent - what you want to prevent your opponent from doing and what he is likely to aim for. However it's not very clear so your post should give some insights to the readers.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests