H3: Logistic problems

[Contraband2004]

Okay, I love Homm but I don't seem to really master it and this is (I think) mainly because of logistic problems. I'll explain:

I have one superhero (see the hints in the Homm1 win95 helpfile ) that has the big army and is out conquering other territories. But my starting castle would turn into a capital and al the creature dwellings. But it gets taken a lot when my superhero is at the other end of the adventure map taken enemies out. But then I lose my capital, my main income, and my high level creatures. Most of the time I don't get town portal and stuff so that doesn't work. How do you cope with this?

[Contraband2004]

Oh this question is about heroes 3 btw, but the logistic problems are in all homm games, but thanks to the capital it's most irritating in 3

[Bandobras Took]

It can be profitable to leave certain creatures "at home" to guard against attacks. Arrow towers and moat damage can amplify defending potential. For example, leaving Battle Dwarves and Dendriods in your Rampart will make even a reasonable army think twice about attacking. Especially since your main hero will be over in their territories, and your opponent will need to have his strength there. It's really a matter of outguessing your opponent.

[Kristo]

The real key is exploration. You need to explore as much of the shroud as you can to know where the enemies are moving. If you can see the enemy heroes coming, you'll have time to prepare a defense. This "defense" doesn't need to be a castle garrison. It can be a hero at a suitable choke point on the map. If you're playing against the AI (and I assume that you are), often the mere presence of a strong hero will often be enough to keep the enemy heroes away.

[Nucleon]

I have one superhero (see the hints in the Homm1 win95 helpfile ) that has the big army and is out conquering other territories. But my starting castle would turn into a capital and al the creature dwellings. But it gets taken a lot when my superhero is at the other end of the adventure map taken enemies out. But then I lose my capital, my main income, and my high level creatures. Most of the time I don't get town portal and stuff so that doesn't work. How do you cope with this?

With no map exemple, here is what Nucleon suggest.

First, you need two "superheroes": A General, and a Defender.

The General should have good mobility and ranged attacks. Give him the fastest troops you've got, including ranged attackers and fliers. This guy's task will be to attack, invade your ennemies.

The Defender, for his part, should stay near your Capital at all times. Often, in Nucleon's case, this hero will be the first one to get experience around the castle by taking mines and stuff. Once he is at lvl 4-6, with interesting enough skills, switch to invading mode with the General. Give your Defender slow, sturdy walkers as well as the troops the dwellings around your castle can provide. Often, the Defender also does the "mill run".

Second, you need a supply train. As soon as you general is more than two days far from his base, hire a hero, any hero, who will serve as a troop relayer and supply train. If he gets overwhelmed, hire another one to assist him.

These are on top of every hero you will hire to secure the towns you will take.

Good luck!

[csarmi]

always have at least 8 heroes
and your main can go home easily with all troops, just chain your troops home and retreat and rebuy your main

and nver have two main heroes

[Corribus]

Usually when I have a "superhero" you only need certain troops in his/her army. When you have a big stack of level 7 creatures and a powerful hero, you don't need all those other creature, too. I leave those at home. And the slow defenders like dwarves and dendroids (as has been mentioned) and weak ranged troops (like archers) I leave behind for defense as well. They get slaughtered on the road anyway.

[Derek]

always have at least 8 heroes
and your main can go home easily with all troops, just chain your troops home and retreat and rebuy your main

and nver have too main heroes

This cannot be stressed enough.

There are always a few units types in each town that are worth leaving behind. They often time slow you down, and they may not be too much of an advantage in the open field. Low level or weak walkers, such as Gnolls, Magma Elementals and Zombies, are prime candidates for leaving as 'town defense'.

Nucleon's idea of having a second hero that is moderatly powerful guarding your castle is also a good strategy. It's easy to get to level 6 or so with a hero, and you just make sure to give them skills more suited for defense than offense. (Archery instead of Logistics) I've found that magic specialty heroes, such as Deemer(Meteor Shower) are good choices for town defense situations. Your primary opponent is going to be ranged troops, unless they have an overwhelming amount of fliers, and so you can take them out easier.

Also just remember: if your opponent has their uber army at your gate then that means their town is unguarded.

[Contraband2004]

Thanks for all the advice! I think I'll stick with the two heroes strategie

[Banedon]

I wholly support Bandobras Took and Kristo; that is what I do. I never keep two main heroes - all experience and creatures go to one hero alone. It is extremely risky to use two heroes, only to have one of them get knocked out by your opponent's single main force.

csarmi - That is certainly extreme, and I don't think it can be done in a turn. You need all your transporting heroes to be within range of each other; with your main army probably sporting Logistics, chances are it will be too far to chain. It can be done in two turns though - more reason to explore.

[Nucleon]

I wholly support Bandobras Took and Kristo; that is what I do. I never keep two main heroes - all experience and creatures go to one hero alone. It is extremely risky to use two heroes, only to have one of them get knocked out by your opponent's single main force.

This sounds quite strange; Maybe on linear maps and one-on-one. As soon as you have two fronts and many towns, or simply an intricate map, a single hero just can't do it.

Even in the small ones, a single hero is an invitation to a merry-go-round of lost and won towns. For the xp price of one level beyond 20, Nucleon thinks a new hero could get to lvl five. And most of the times, that's a much better deal.

[Pol]

Just to clear that a bit.

Sometimes you may got equally strong heroes, usually after someone stupid (AI mostly ) attacked your weaker hero and totally lost. (or even roschade may come to mind, when the second hero become the most powerfull, yes indeed it's happens)

On big maps, depends exactly on scenario, you may have also two big armies (or more, or to be without main one...).

But normally here is only one main hero, tons of servants and few of aspirants.

Uh, and always watch your tavern.

As a result strategies vary, what's count is if you won, or make to your enemy so big losses that s/he will instantly suffer to another player, that's a real lesson. Threaten him/er or bluff but best to do both at once.

[Kristo]

I wholly support Bandobras Took and Kristo; that is what I do. I never keep two main heroes - all experience and creatures go to one hero alone. It is extremely risky to use two heroes, only to have one of them get knocked out by your opponent's single main force.

This sounds quite strange; Maybe on linear maps and one-on-one. As soon as you have two fronts and many towns, or simply an intricate map, a single hero just can't do it.

Even in the small ones, a single hero is an invitation to a merry-go-round of lost and won towns. For the xp price of one level beyond 20, Nucleon thinks a new hero could get to lvl five. And most of the times, that's a much better deal.

It's not that suggested you only play with a single hero - rather a single superhero. Two superheroes implies that the bulk of your army is split in half. For a very large map this may eventually be necessary, but only after your total forces significantly outnumber your opponents'. Remember the key principle of warfare: "He who gets there first with the most, wins."

[RK]

another lame offensive / defensive tactic that my friend adopted is creating a bunch of caster heroes with high speed units as sacrificial stacks.

they engage in combat. fire off the most destructive spell they can cast and then retreat. this will effective whittle down the opponent's strength, and he can't really do anything about it (a flaw in H3 imo)

another is to use Logistics expert hero such as Kyrrie. I love using ky. i carry troops ...then near the end of my movement..i find a mine and parked every single unit except the fastest one on the mine. the next day i will recieve a huge boost and pick up the army again. this buys a day or two of movement. (another flaw in H3

[Kristo]

another lame offensive / defensive tactic that my friend adopted is creating a bunch of caster heroes with high speed units as sacrificial stacks.

they engage in combat. fire off the most destructive spell they can cast and then retreat. this will effective whittle down the opponent's strength, and he can't really do anything about it (a flaw in H3 imo)

Ah, Spell and Run. Love to hate it, hate to love it, and it just might save you if you have the gold to pull it off. The Heroes II AI was particularly good at it.

another is to use Logistics expert hero such as Kyrrie. I love using ky. i carry troops ...then near the end of my movement..i find a mine and parked every single unit except the fastest one on the mine. the next day i will recieve a huge boost and pick up the army again. this buys a day or two of movement. (another flaw in H3

Yes, that'll buy you some extra movement, but at what cost? You need a convenient mine, and you have to waste real time and energy shuffling the creatures around. The extra movement won't make up for bad strategic decisions. If you win with this cheap trick, I'd say you likely would have won without it. IMHO, assuming you can't do that will make you a better player.

[RK]

lol it works when the opponent is not expecting it imo. when an army carries a slightly slow shooter but still moves 1.5 faster, then something is bound to be off.

[Banedon]

This sounds quite strange; Maybe on linear maps and one-on-one. As soon as you have two fronts and many towns, or simply an intricate map, a single hero just can't do it.

Even in the small ones, a single hero is an invitation to a merry-go-round of lost and won towns. For the xp price of one level beyond 20, Nucleon thinks a new hero could get to lvl five. And most of the times, that's a much better deal.

No choice. To divide is to get conquered. It's not a problem of experience - of course 2 level 20 heroes is better than one level 23 hero - but of creatures. If you split your army, you are going to suffer if your opponent attacks one of them. You can, however, "split" your army eventually if you have two or more different town types.

Spell-and-Run is definitely not fair. It's become a custom in my house to ban this strategy - without a faster unit or the Shackles of War, it is impossible.

[Nucleon]

No choice. To divide is to get conquered. It's not a problem of experience - of course 2 level 20 heroes is better than one level 23 hero - but of creatures. If you split your army, you are going to suffer if your opponent attacks one of them. You can, however, "split" your army eventually if you have two or more different town types.

But you've got to split your (one-town) army in order to be faster or more effective anyway. Unless you are going to tell Nucleon that you pack Zombies/Dwarves with your main army? Nucleon would prefer to have two stacks of Squletons/Centaurs than to pack slowpokes with His main army, slowpokes who will never strike a shot in an invasion anyway; When they get there, the battle is already over.

[csarmi]

Nucleon, I strongly suspect you would be better off playing heroes IV.
First of all, there this maxim - the more heroes the better - is true.
Second, roleplaying and such plays a bigger role and it has a stronger aura.
In addition, now there are VERY good rpg maps around, and in h4, it is much more possible.

[Banedon]

I don't quite think you can call an army made out of Dwarves and Dendroids a second "main army". Such an army will be curiously impotent, and any reasonable army with a powerful Ranged stack can beat it. It applies to every race, because only the slow units are left behind - and the slow units cannot take on Ranged stacks.

Besides, I don't think you'd have the Gold to spend on buying these creatures; I'd definitely prefer channeling that Gold to level 7 dwellings.