Academy Strategy Thread

[Omega_Destroyer]

Oh, my apologies. I must not have read it carefully.

The Slayer falls.

[Elvin]

I added it a bit more clearly now, thanks Come on people bashing time! Err debating

[Omega_Destroyer]

I'll chime in later. I'm not feeling very critical today. I must be getting a cold or something.

[Corribus]

Great - It will take me a little while to read everything

Edit: I just read your first post. Pretty nice. I have some comments but I will wait until I read what follows. Actually I haven't played Academy yet so most of it is news to me.

[Elvin]

Take your time, the more time you have to process it the better. In any case I'll take a nap - I feel pretty tired

[Corribus]

Alright, as I said I have never played AS Academy. But I've played against academy. From the first post, faction overview, though, I would like to ask for some clarification from Elvin:

Its units are not very self sufficient

What exactly do you mean by this?

From my limited play against Academy, it has seemed to me that the faction stacks up very well against other magic-oriented factions, because of the spell immunity of its own might-based units (Gargoyles and Golems), and it is particularly well suited to fight against the Necropolis because several of its units are nonliving. I found this to be particularly vexing during the necromancer campaign, when my vampire lords and liches were next to useless (particularly the former). Unfortunately the academy really needs to compensate for its lack of ranged striking ability. Gremlins are a great first tier unit, but in later battles they don't have the fire power to heavily damage enemy walkers. Arch-mages are great, and their spells hurt - a lot - but they are also delicate and are a primary target for enemy shooters and spell-casters. The lone exception are titans, of course, and if you go up against a large stack of them, you are in trouble. But if you catch academy in the mid-game when they don't necessarily have many, then you can make quick meat of the academy lineup if you have many shooters of your own.

This is why I feel that the best factions to take on the academy are sylvan, haven and inferno (I haven't even installed the expansion yet so I cannot comment on Fortress). Inferno I think could be particularly troublesome for the academy because of the sheer numbers of tank-like units that the faction can produce. Because the academy doesn't have great ranged support, dealing with these large numbers of tough walkers will be difficult.

[Elvin]

That was my point, that they are not of much help vs might opponents unless backed up by magic. Of course that is partially because of the wizard's low attack and defense stats.
First three tiers inadequate damage, 4-5 vulnerable, 6 slow and 7 an easy to block shooter. Hard to play it just might way. They are meant to be boosted with arties.

[Corribus]

Oh yeah I also meant to ask: I take it arties are artifacts?

[Omega_Destroyer]

Titans can be blocked but they can still call lightning. A tactic I found most irratating when my Magma Dragons became lightning rods.

[Elvin]

Haha sorry! I'm kinda used from hc where artifacts are called arties for short

[Corribus]

Caradoc brought up some good points about how to flesh out your article:

It would help if you gave a specific build sequence instead of making general statements. Also consider resource requirements.

When we talk about creeping early in week 1, you ought to note which creatures you may be able to take on. If you get Peasants or Skeletons, you may get out OK, but Archers, Assassins, Gremlins, and Sprites are going to hurt you badly. Level 2s except for Zombies are pretty much out of the question.

Especially the former point. Given unlimited resources, what is your build order? What about very limited resources?

[Elvin]

According to how fast you lvl up on week 1 you should be able to take on all tier 1, most 2, some 3 and 4. Those I will avoid are:

Tier 2
Lots of blood furies(depends *).
Horde of marksmen/crossbowmen. On lots I will fight marksmen. Horde of archers manageable.
Lots of war dancers(depends *). Blade dancers usually manageable.
Horde of obsidian gargoyles(without fist of wrath). Horde of stone gargoyles manageable. The obsidians immune to eldritch arrow.
Others can be defeated on horde.

Tier 3
Lots of cerberi(depends *).
Lots of blackbear riders(without fire trap).
Lots of master hunters. Lots of hunters(depends *).
Lots of steel golems(without fist of wrath). Note that I have done it but it's risky without ammo cart. Horde of iron golems easily manageable.
Horde of spectres and ghosts. Lots of ghosts manageable.

Tier 4
Pack/lots of succubi and succubi mistresses.
Lots of vampires and vampire lords. Pack of vamps manageable.
Pack of mages or archmages(depends *) Lots no way
Pack of raiders and grim raiders(depends *).
Lots of druid elders. Druids manageable.
Lots of berserkers(depends *). Brawlers usually manageable.
Pack/lots of imperial griffins(without fire trap).

Tier 5 I may attack pack of djinns or hydras(depends *). Note that djinns waste some turns to cast dark magic.

*Depends=on spellpower, mastery, an early artifact, if I have ice bolt.

Note that here I rely only on eldritch arrow, motw and occasionally fist of wrath/firetrap and icebolt. Fire trap if I have advanced or expert summoning which is easy to get fast - yes, week 1. Also I assume you have stone gargoyles and master gremlins boosted both from town and secondary hero.
Nathir with fireball can kill pack of mages (:O ) and Havez can easily kill some of those listed above.


Edit: Actually with a beginner's wand, expert sorcery and motw/eldritch arrow you can kill pack of archmages I just tested it. Jhora had 5 spellpower, 7 with the wand and I used 5 stacks of 1 stone gargoyle. Not easy to do it often though, map plays a role.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Town building with numerous resources.
Starting at lvl 3 with fort and tavern.

Week 1:
Gremlins, master gremlins, mage guild 1, town hall, mages, gargoyles, djinns.

Week 2:
City hall, library, rakshasas, citadel, castle, , capitol, colossi.
...........................................................................................................

With poor resources

Week 1 same and:

Week 2:
Mage guild 2, city hall, treasure cave, library, citadel, capitol, castle.

In the first case I did not build mage guild 2 so that I could squeeze in the colossi with castle and capitol. The main difference is that with many resources I'll get rakshasas.

Master post updated

[Caradoc]

I appreciate the attention to the build sequence, but I think it still needs some work.

Town building with numerous resources.
Starting at lvl 3 with fort and tavern.

Huh? Fort is a level 6 building. Your sequences are not much use if you assume you start with a Fort. This is not Heroes IV.

[Elvin]

You mean you have never played a town starting with fort and lvl3? Do you play only random maps?
In any case don't expect me to cover all situations, the ones I have cited serve as guidelines. I am positive that you or anyone else for that matter can modify it to fit your strategy.

[Caradoc]

You mean you have never played a town starting with fort and lvl3? Do you play only random maps?
In any case don't expect me to cover all situations, the ones I have cited serve as guidelines. I am positive that you or anyone else for that matter can modify it to fit your strategy.

I don't know about 'never', but I'd say starting with a Fort is highly unusual. Maybe you could list a few maps like that. The level 3 starts I have played were almost always Village Hall, Tavern, and the level 1 dwelling.

My point is that by basing your strategy on a start that appears to be quite rare, you are not helping anyone -- and you may be misleading them. There are important issues regarding build strategy that players need to understand and your guidelines seem superficial at best.

[Elvin]

My point is that by basing your strategy on a start that appears to be quite rare, you are not helping anyone -- and you may be misleading them. There are important issues regarding build strategy that players need to understand and your guidelines seem superficial at best.

That is because each map's needs are different. I added some things to the building section anyway but the general idea is mage guild 2 and tiers 1, 2, 4, 5(if possible) by the beginning of week 2, capitol during week 2 and if possible citadel - fort or no. No matter how you may see it that's wrong for some maps. Maybe due to length, lack of money or resources etc. I can only give a hint, the rest is on the player's judgement and needs.

[Corribus]

I think we need to focus here on specific strategies against other factions. In addition to what Elvin has written, there's also a lot of basic strategic information on CH site already (Caradoc pointed me to it).

So... apart from battle strategies, how do you approach the different factions from a strategic standpoint? Obviously the Academy is probably not a great rush town, given the resource requirements and its heavy reliance of spell development. I guess you have to worry more about BEING rushed, particularly by might-heavy towns like the Inferno. So... do you focus on defense against these factions?

[winterfate]

Pretty nice...I'm not much of an Academy player myself...but let's see if there's something I can add...

I saw your master post...the only thing I could think of adding to it...is perhaps a Mini-Artifact section where you explain which artifacts work best for which units.

Otherwise, I like it a lot.

Good work Elvin!

(Now I have to keep working on mine...)

[Elvin]

Thanks, keep working on it cause you'll get bored before you know it

[Miru]

I think we need to focus here on specific strategies against other factions. In addition to what Elvin has written, there's also a lot of basic strategic information on CH site already (Caradoc pointed me to it).

So... apart from battle strategies, how do you approach the different factions from a strategic standpoint? Obviously the Academy is probably not a great rush town, given the resource requirements and its heavy reliance of spell development. I guess you have to worry more about BEING rushed, particularly by might-heavy towns like the Inferno. So... do you focus on defense against these factions?

This is old, and they have balanced things more since then, but going by this, au contraire, my friend. (that is French for on the contrary, and no I'm not French)