Fortress Strategy Thread

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Fortress Strategy Thread

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 09 Jun 2007, 02:12

UNDER CONSTRUCTION

PROS AND CONS

PROS:

Defensive Hero: The Runemage develops a healthy defense that is often supplemented with light magic and defense skills, making your hero even tougher. A higher spellpower and light magic will make your troops last for a long time.

Runes:
The Runemage's racial ability is incredibly powerful and with the right hero, you rarely pay anything to cast your runes. Nothing better than being able to charge your troops to the enemy's front door.

Defensive Troops: Fortress troops have excellant abilities that allow a crafty player to divert an enemy onslaught, with the shieldguards, skirmishers, rune patriachs and magma dragons really standing out.

Defensive Structures: The wall upgrades and the guard post really supplement the castle well during a seige; nothing like getting a free legion of shieldguards to the chagrin of your enemy.

CONS:
Resource Demands: The Fortress suffers from a high demand for resources. A lack of crystals will be a thorn in your side on harder maps, making it even harder to get thanes and lava dragons.

Slower troops and no Flyers: The Fortress is stuck with a lot of lower-initiative troops, which can be especially dangerous (even more so when facing Slyvan armies, as the cpu was kind enough to point out to me). Much like the Inferno, the Fortress has only one unit capable of teleporting across the field and no flyers. This can really hurt a player hunting neutral shooters early on.

Odd Hero Growth: Fortress players will most likely be annoyed at rarely being offered the Sorcery skill which kills if you choose to focus on Destructive magic. Fortress players should also abandon hopes of getting a high offense because it just isn't going to happen. Even the Attack skill doesn't seem to be enough to save the Fortress's lack of offense. Also the Runemage has a lower Knowledge than other heroes, which can be a liability in long battles.

HEROES

Ingvar- Protector, Basic Defense, Vitality
•Specialises in Defenders. Defenders in hero's army gain +1 to their Offense and Defense for every two levels, and +1 to their Hit Points for every five levels of the hero.
•One of my favorite Rune Mages. Defense and Vitality will help immensely in the early stages of the game, plus the +1 hit point to Shieldguards really helps later on. With vitality and the additional hit points, shieldguards can get up to about 18 hitpoints which greatly adds to their effectiveness as a guard. If you are looking for a more might oriented Rune Mage, Ingvar is an excellent choice.

Helmar- Sacred Hammer, Advanced Light Magic
•Each time the hero casts a light magic spell on a friendly creature, there is a chance that the 'Righteous Might' spell will be cast freely upon the affected unit.
•Light Magic is probably the best choice for a Rune Mage. Helmar’s ability gives him a chance to cast Righteous Might after any light spell is cast. This ability is great because it works with mass spells as well. Nothing like getting +9 to Attack and Defense on a casting. Furthermore, the free Righteous Might can counter the effects of Suffering. If you are seeking a more magic oriented Rune Mage, I highly recommend Helmar.

Brand- Rune Artist, Advanced Runelore, Fine Rune
•Chances of success with Fine Rune feat are increased by 20% from the start and by +1% for every level.
•An excellent hero from a rune casting stand point. His special ability coupled with Fine Rune, pretty much ensures you’ll rarely pay anything to use runes. This hero only gets better when you try activating Greater Runes that have a triple cost. An all around excellent choice if you like to use Runes.

Inga- Master of the Runes, Basic Enlightenment, Scholar
•With each level-up, the hero can spontaneously learn one more Runic Spell.
•A very useful special ability on resource-tight maps. This special ability allows you to build only one level of the rune guild and learn runes upon leveling up. This can save precious resources that are needed more for building structures. Can’t say I’m too thrilled with the Scholar ability.

Erling- Keeper of the Flame, Advanced Sorcery
•Specializes in Priests. Rune Priests and Patriarchs in hero's army gain +1 to their Offense and Defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.
•The specialty isn’t anything outstanding but starting with Advanced Sorcery is great. Rune Mages have a very low chance of getting sorcery, which makes destructive magic a bit tedious to use in battle. Additionally, the Distract ability can be a royal pain for enemy spell casters. Another good choice for a magic oriented Rune Mage.

Ebba- Rider, Basic Attack, Tactics
•Specialises in Riders. Bear Riders and Blackbear Riders in hero's army gain +1 to their Offense and Defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.
•Bear Riders are excellent Fortress units that are only made better with Ebba. The tactics ability will really help get you to your enemies faster. Attack does feel like a bit of a waste seeing as how Rune Mages tend to have lower attack values. Lastly, Ebba starts with 10-12 bear riders, which is great for early creeping.

Karh- Sharp Blade, Basic Luck, Soldier’s Luck
•Specialises in Spearwielders and Skirmishers. Spearwielders and Skirmishers in hero's army gain +1 to their Offense and Defense for every two levels of the hero, starting on first level.
•A fair choice for a hero. Skirmishers are a decent ranged unit, but their damage output isn’t anything outstanding. The Luck skill is what helps Karh. Luck will allow your Warlords, Magma Dragons, and Rune Patriarchs to lay waste upon your enemies. Plus Soldier’s luck will really help the Blackbear Rider’s paw attack and the Skirmishers crippling wound.

Svea- Stormcaller, Basic Destruction, Master of Storms
•Lightning-based spells of this hero are irresistible for the enemies (immunities and magic-proof still apply).
•An ok hero at best. Master of Storms isn’t that great and few enemies have resistance to lightning. If you are going for the Absolute Protection, don’t bother picking Svea because you need the Master of Fire. I honestly can’t recommend picking Svea as a hero.

HERO DEVELOPMENT

There are 4 skills I consider essential to the development of any Rune Mage: Defense, Leadership, Luck, and Light Magic. As to the 5th skill, it depends on the situation or the hero's starting statistics.

Defense
The Rune Mage develops a high defense and this skill really supplements your units' staying power. Since your units won't have a high attack power, defense is important for outlasting your opponents. Vitality is excellant for early creeping and for making Shieldguards and Skirmishers last a bit longer. Evasion really helps out when you are facing a hero with lots of ranged units. Receiving 20% less damage from ranged attacks coupled with the 30% reduction in damage from Expert Defense and Shieldguards' Large Shield ability, a Rune Mage can expect a heavy reduction in ranged damage. Along the same vein, Protection will help against spell casters with its 15% reduction. Combined with the Resistance, Dwarven Luck, and some runes, it'll become very difficult to damage Fortress troops with spells. As to Defensive Formation, I have not really noticed a difference in the defense of my troops. Preparation is ok when you have Shieldguards defending against attackers due to its nullifying effect on No Retaliation. The two attacks for units with Unlimited Retaliation is nice but it only affects two units, Golems and Griffins, so its use is limited.

Leadership
Fortress units have mediocre initiative and factions like the Slyvan will run circles around them. To compensate, Rune Mages can rely on haste but it's not always a guarantee in the mage guild, so Leadership is a must. The abilities of Leadership aren't anything great, but they are nice to have. Recruitment is ok but, more often than not, you won't be at your Fortress on day 7 to get reinforcements. Estates isn't bad; 250 extra gold a day is always nice, but there are better abilities. Diplomacy can be great when you find a group willing to join you but I've found that happens infrequently. The main reason to take Diplomacy is to open the door for Runic Attunement and Empathy. Runic Attunement is a great ability because it adds +2 to the morale of a unit every time a rune is attached. Getting good morale after applying a Charge rune is wonderful. As for Empathy, it can be downright brutal. Every time positive morale is triggered for a unit, your hero gets +10% jump on the bar. This is great when you are a caster and you lack the sorcery skill. The only drag about the empathy skill is that you need the Mentoring ability of the Enlightenment skill.

Luck
With 3 units capable of hitting multiple targets, Luck is a wonderful skill to have. A Warlord with the Berserk Rune that gets lucky can absolutely decimate a group of enemies, often killing off 3 or 4 stacks. Rune Mages suffer in the Attack department, so luck really helps fill the void for damage out put. The main ability to be concerned with is Resistance. A 15% chance to avoid a spell is nothing to scoff at and with Dwarven Luck, you are looking at a 30% to avoid a spell. Not too shabby. Of the remaining two abilities, I'd pick Soldier's Luck over Resourcefulness. Resourcefulness is good early on in resource scarce maps, but Soldier's Luck will greatly benefit your Blackbear Riders and Skirmishers.

Light Magic
Rune Mages have a very high spell power, but often get cheated on the Sorcery skill. Since successive casting is mostly out of the picture, a Rune Mage needs to make his/her spells count. This is where Light Magic comes in. Light Magic allows a Rune Mage to compensate for low initiative and attack with spells like Haste and Righteous Might. Resurrection and Teleportation will really give you an edge in battles, and Word of Light can be a good way of whittling down the darker armies. If you use Helmar, you also get the nice bonus of a chance to cast Righteous Might any time you use a Light Magic buff. This is an excellant speciality that truly shines when you cast mass spells. As for abilities, I tend to stick with the mass versions. Eternal Light is a good choice, but you miss out on casting Mass Haste and Mass Righteous Might. Unless you are playing Helmar, I recommend ignoring Eternal Light and focusing on Master of Wrath over Eternal Light.

Other Skills
The last skill depends on your style of play. Here's a brief run down.

War Machines
A decent skill that can help supplment your attack. The Ballista, Runic War Machines, and Triple Ballista are really nice abilities to have. The major problem I have with War Machines is that Attack and Knowledge contribute to Ballista damage, both of which your Rune Mage will be lacking. Catapult is useful for seiges especially since you have only one unit capable of getting behind enemy walls easily. First Aid is always nice to have a back up. All and all, not a bad ability to have.

Enlightenment
Never a bad skill to pick; bonus experience and stat increases are always nice to have. Intelligence will help supplement a low knowledge and only get better with the more knowledge you get. I never take Scholar. It just feels like a waste of an ability. Arcane Intuition is almost as bad. It's nice to learn spells in battle, but you only get them after battle and after they are used. I'd rather not learn Implosion by having one of my units blasted with it. What saves Arcane Intuition is the Tap Runes ability that allows a Rune Mage to get mana back after a rune is used. This can be a real life saver in battle when your mana reserves start to run out. Arcane Intution leads to Mentoring, which allows an experienced hero to train weaker heroes up to a 1/4 of their experience. It's an ok bonus, but the real reason you'll take Mentoring is to get the Empathy skill. If you can get Empathy, you're going to have a fun time watching your Hero get to act faster and faster in battle.

Logistics
Always a good skill due to the extra movement points. Every Faction can benefit from increased movement points. Of the abilities, Navigation is pretty much useless. Scouting is ok for figuring out what you are up agaisnt, but not much else. Pathfinding is all you are left with and the 50% movement in rough terrain is great. Pathfinding leads to Snatch which allows you take objects without wasting movement points. This is more useful than it seem. Way too often I have found myself just out of reach of something and Snatch compensates for the loss. Lastly, Swift Mind allows your Rune Mage to act faster at the start of battle. It's an ok bonus but seeing as how it has a one time effect, I don't recommend it.

Attack
A 15% increase in damage never hurts, but with a lower attack, you are better off taking Luck. Tactics is a nice skill for helping your Blackbear Riders and Berserkers, but Runes of Charge are usually much more efficient at getting to your enemy's door step. Batlle Frenzy is an ok ability that only really helps your lower end units. The +1 increase in minimum and maximum attack damage could help your Sheidlguards a lot, especially if you using Ingvar. Archery is a really good choice for heroes who specialize in ranged units, such as Erling and Karh. As with Defensive Formation, I haven't really noticed a huge offensive increase with Offensive Formation, so I can't comment on how effective it is. Lastly, I don't reccomend going for Retribution due to the requirements needed. To get it, you will need the Mentoring ability of Enlightenment, Empathy of the Morale line, and Exorcism of Summoning. If you like those skills and have been going for them all along, by all means take Retribution and watch counter attacks become really painful. The problem with Retribution is that your units need to be attacked to receive a benefit in most cases. Personally I prefer to avoid damage to my units if I can and that coupled with steep requirements, I can't recommend Retribution.

Sorcery
A great skill for any Rune Mage, especially if you are going the Destructive Route. As with any mage, the 30% increase from Expert Sorcery can be a real life saver in any battle. Unfortunately, unless you pick Erling, there's a really low chance of you ever getting offered Sorcery. But if you do, I highly recommend it. With lower knowledge, Rune Mages really benefit from Arcane Training and Mana Regeneration. Magic Insight is ok but the level 3 spells you don't have any mastery in won't be anything outstanding. Distract is an excellant ability when facing another mage. The 20% penalty to iniative will really hurt any mage by capping their Sorcery skill at 10%, which can really give you an edge as battle drags on. Since it only requires Arcane Training, there is no reason not to get Distract. If you can get Sorcery, strongly consider taking it.

Summoning Magic
Taking summoning magic will definetely throw your opponent for a loop because Rune Mages are more prone to specailizing in Light and Destructive. Summoning Magic has some nice spells that can really keep your enemies off guard like Fire Trap, Fire Wall, Phantom Forces, Wasp Storm, and so on. Earthquake can really help out in castle seiges since you only have one unit capable of breaching walls. Using Phantom Forces on a Warlord could easily prove to be the downfall of your opponents. The major problem wtih choosing this line of magic for your Rune Mage is that Fortresses do not get Summoning Magic after the 3rd level. So unless you manage to take over a different castle, find some alters, or luck out and find a Book of Summoning, you are pretty stuck. As to the initial abilities, it depends primarily on what spells you are going to focus on. Taking Master of Life allows you to get Runic Armor, which is an interesting ability to have early on. Getting a 5th level spell early on is great and the +4 spell power only helps. Taking Runic Armor and Greater Rune will allow you to get Exorcism, which just baffles me. Exorcism makes all Destructive spells do double damage to summoned and gated units. I find this unusual because this ability doesn't help the Summoning skill tree at all. There is also a really good chance that you won't be specializing in both Summoning and Destructive magic. If Exorcism was placed in the Destructive tree, then I could understand taking it. I only recommend it if you are going for Destructive magic as well as Summoning.

Destructive Magic
The other main magic school for a Rune Mage. Destructive Magic offers many spells for blasting your enemies. Fireball, Implosion, and Meteor Shower can really turn the tide in any battle. As for the ablities, Master of Ice and Master of Lightning are ok, but most will overlook these in favor of Master of Fire. The armor reducing abilities of Master of Fire are ok, but what makes the ability really shine is where it leads. Master of Fire allows you to get Ignite, which can be a major pain for your opponent if you use Fireball or Armageddon. Ignite causes any enemies hit by a fire spell to continuously take fire damage for the next 3 turns in the amount of the initial spell damage; it's like a Destrutive version of Decay. Taking Ignite allows a Rune Mage to take Mana Burst, which is a really fun ability. Mana Burst allows you to indirectly damage any enemy spell casing unit for 10 x Rune Mage's level of damage each time they cast a spell. So if you have a level 15 Rune Mage and an enemy stack of Sprites cast Wasp Swarm, they will take 150 damage. Such an ability will make an enemy think a lot more carefully about how they use their spell casting units. Lastly, if you are trying to get Absolute Protection you have to take Destructive Magic.

Dark Magic
Another skill that you will rarely be offered as a Rune Mage. Most enemies won't expect a Rune Mage to have Dark Magic, so it could really wreck their strategy. Spells like Blind, Berserk, and Puppet Master are really fun for disabling strong opponents, while Weakness, Suffering, Slow, and Vulnerability are all excellant mass spells. Due to the usefulness of the mass spells, as with Light Magic, taking all the basic abilities of Dark Magic is strongly recommended. Shrug Darkness is an ok ability to have, but Dark Spells cast with 50% effectivness can still be quite the pain. If you are looking for some more defense, I'd take it, but other than that I can't recommend it.

More later.
Last edited by Omega_Destroyer on 03 Oct 2007, 20:17, edited 21 times in total.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 09 Jun 2007, 04:52

Before posting, please read the latest in the Ironing thread. In there, Miru suggests allowing one person to "present" each week. Discussion ensues, and then the next person posts the next week. Elvin/Miru will go first, since Elvin has a limited amount of time to participate. O_D if you are close, I can give you second slot. If you want some more time, I will give 2nd to Winterfate, as he's obviously thought a lot about his already as well.

Cool?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 09 Jun 2007, 06:35

Of course.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Caradoc
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1780
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Marble Falls Texas

Unread postby Caradoc » 12 Jun 2007, 22:40

Fortress is also a lot of fun to play, mainly because of all the neat specials. As to Attack, you have to use the same approach as Sylvan, which is to boost your Attack level with artifacts. As to Crystal, I play Marketplace>Resource Silo on Day 1/2, which will make enough to meet the basic needs. For the Magma upgrade, you get a break in that no more Crystal or Gems are needed. I'm sure readers will appreciate some specific build sequences and notes on what resources they should be going for.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 12 Jun 2007, 23:17

Thanks for the input Caradoc. I don't want to get started on a debate at the moment, but I'm going to disagree with you on the marketplace>resource silo build order. While the boost in crystal will be invaluable no doubt, I find it better to get a blacksmith as soon as possible to make spearthrowers useful in the early game.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 12 Jun 2007, 23:36

Agreed, I used to do that before I got to play Karli. After all it's required for the town hall and you need it early. Still it's your shieldguards that will get most of the creeping done, spearwielders are just support and unless getting Karli or soldier's luck you won't get many wound effects anyway.
Of course that's more suited to my style. It is possible to go for warmachines->ballista that works just as well.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Caradoc
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1780
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Marble Falls Texas

Unread postby Caradoc » 13 Jun 2007, 04:04

The Ammo Cart is important, but not a necessity early. How many shots do you need to kill some Skeletons or Peasants? By the time you are out of ammo, they are usually within melee range. Besides, you don't get very many Spearchuckers to start with, except with Karli, so you have to wait a couple of turns anyway to build the dwelling.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 14 Jun 2007, 03:53

Necessary or not, you need to build a blacksmith to get a town hall so you might as well make use of the ammo cart. But like I said, I'll get into more of this later.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 15 Jun 2007, 02:35

I have to give props to Caradoc. Building a resource silo in the first week is very sound advice on harder difficulties.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Re: Fortress Strategy Thread

Unread postby Elvin » 20 Jun 2007, 10:47

Agreed on your skill assessment.
Due to starting initiative you will be forced to take the first hit occasionally so defense is very important. I take vitality and defensive formation that gives an extra bonus vs chargers.
Also with the runes tied to unit initiative leadership and light magic for haste are an obvious pick. I rarely pick abilities save diplomacy, after all getting empathy requires too much for my taste.
As a damage booster luck seems to be the best way but also righteous magic and it is no wonder that my best heroes are Karli and Helmar :) Dwarven luck is sick but I like the basic skill because you get may attacks with this faction and its rune combos.
In a lategame warmachines won't be as useful and I will feel cheated of those 6 skills I could have picked instead of triple ballista.
Destructive only on short maps or with Erling.

As for swift mind I feel you underestimate it. If your hero acts first, before enemy units of 12 initiative and casts mass haste with rune of charge/battlerage you can do a fearsome all-out assault that is hard to prevent. It may not be as devastating for some factions, say haven but it is pretty decent at worst.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 15 Feb 2008, 22:26

*bump*
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

HOMMV_N00B
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 55
Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Unread postby HOMMV_N00B » 16 Feb 2008, 14:05

Is this a non tote thread? Or do you just never pick the new creature updates?

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Unread postby Metathron » 16 Feb 2008, 14:13

Check the dates; obviously pre-TotE.
Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

User avatar
Omega_Destroyer
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 6939
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Corner of your Eye

Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 16 Feb 2008, 19:21

I thought I had the Fortress units updated. Turns out I was thinking of the Stronghold info. I have the old Fortress creature info. Just never got around to incorporating the alternates.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests