Renagades as Alternate Upgrades?

[Angelspit]

Do you think the Renegades will be used as alternate upgrades for Haven? What would you like the most?

(borrowing a topic from the official forum)

[Omega_Destroyer]

I'd bet on the Renegades being the new upgrades. Nival already made the units, so why waste more time on creating alternative "alternative" upgrades?

And if that is the case, you can kiss goodbye to the conscripts, marksmen, and squires because I doubt anybody will bother using those over the Renegade versions.

[Mirez]

all I can do is hope so

[Gaidal Cain]

I can see me using Squires. Extending the missile protection can be a huger boon than being able to strike twice with a rather slow unit.

[Omega_Destroyer]

I could see that.

I wonder how many would chose Battle Griffins over Imperial Griffins? I'd probably chose the Imperial because Battle Dive is great for seiges.

[Elvin]

I sincerely hope not. JJ's prediction was right in that the renegades were a sign of what was to come and the logical thing to expect is to see them as alternates. Still I would prefer to see something from scratch and better balanced from the beginning. And...renegades along with the regulars? Does not compute.

[Mirez]

yeah imperial griffins > battle griffins by alot

but irena let's battle griffins battle dive If I'm not mistaken...

[arturchix]

I'm very confident that Renegade troops will be the alternative upgrades for Haven, it just has to be so.

P.S. I always mix up renegade units with rebels.

[okrane]

What are the stats of the renegade units?

[Angelspit]

Here are the stats

[okrane]

thanks Angelspit

Looking at them I would say that there is no doubt that Renegades are stronger than Haven units.
Personally I would choose:

Brute - no brainer
Crossbowman - Precise shot is too casual to be considered in stead of No Range Penalty
Squire - Frankly I find this a no brainer too. They are defensive units not assault ones. Maybe with laszlo it could change.
Imperial Griffins - 4 points in attack really hurts those other griffins, and they are not meant to retaliate too much since later on they fall pretty fast.
Inquisitors vs Zealots: I would take half on one type and another half from the other to abuse spells.
Champions: 4 in defense Hurts them, true: but the new damage output is just wild, and Haven is an assault faction
Fallen Angels: Here it's pretty easy. Resurection is good, true, but these are monsters: a 75 damage vampire. Divine Strength is really easy to get with Haven.

I think the renegades should be tweaked a little

[Monteniger]

I can see me using Squires. Extending the missile protection can be a huger boon than being able to strike twice with a rather slow unit.

I can see me using fallen angels They will surely leave Renegades but will tweak them and male them more balanced...
I would love smth new but I doubt that we'll get smth fresh...

[King Imp]

Here was my post from over there (plus a change as my analysis was wrong on something).

Here is how I see the breakdown in Haven vs Renegades.

Conscript vs Enforcer: The Enforcer has better stats than the Conscript and has the Bash and Taxpayer ability. Who would ever take the Conscript in this case?

Marksman vs Crossbowman: The stats are exactly the same, except that the Marksman has 2 more shots. If you have the Ammo Cart though, that doesn't matter. The Crossbowman has No Range Penalty and that alone makes them better. Who would ever take the Marksman?

Squire vs Vindicator: The Squire has 1 more Defense, but the Vindicator has 3 more Attack. I'd say advantage Vindicator there. Plus, the Vindicator gets a double attack as long as he kills 1 measly unit. I'd say it's almost a given that he will automatically get that 2nd attack. I'm sorry, but that Shield Allies ability isn't very impressive to me. First off, you have to initially place the Squires with the units you want to protect. Being they are so slow, you aren't going to get the chance to move them around to protect different allies. Clear advantage in favor of the Vindicators, IMO.

Imperial Griffin vs Battle Griffin: Now here there is definitely enough of a difference to say you could go with either of them. I personally love the Battle Dive and unfortunately the Battle Griffin can't do that. Will be interesting to see though if you can make them do it while in Irina's army since she can make regular Griffins do it. If so and you have Irina, it's a no brainer to go with the Battle Griffin over the Imperial Griffin.

Inquisitor vs Zealot: Once again, you could go either way. One has higher Attack, while having less Defense and has more shots, while having less mana. Take your pick here.

Paladin vs Champion: Sure, the Paladin has 4 more Defense, but the Champion does more overall Damage and this is mainly an offensive unit. The Champion loses the Jousting ability, but lets be honest, how often do you get to use that in a battle. I'd say your first attack all the way across the battlefield and then that's it. In the case of the Champion though, they can hit two units if one is directly behind the other. Clearly advantage Champion.

Archangel vs Fallen Angel: If you have the Resurrection spell, then I'd definitely go with the Fallen Angel. If not, I'd probably go with the Archangel. I say probably because unfortunately it only works once, while the Fallen Angel's Life Drain works on every attack. This one definitely comes down to personal preference.


So, that's 4 out of 7 levels that there is a clear cut advantage with one over the other, IMO. There will be no reason to ever go with the weaker unit and thus if these are the alternate upgrades, then they need to be tweaked.

[PhoenixReborn]

I think the analysis posts are pretty accurate.

It's clear that as of now, the renegade units are stronger.

We just learned this,

- Alt.upgrade and original upgrade will be available at the same time, for every creature individually. Also, player can re-train one to another.

So there is no reason not to pick the stronger unit.

I think that the renegades will be the alternates, but that they will bring the stats more in line with the regular haven units. If you look at the stats already released for the other alternates that seems to be the pattern.

Or you could leave it at is, but have the costs for the renegade units be much higher.

[captain of haven 3]

i would like to see new units(not renegade)

but its still ok either way

[watcher83]

I love the renegades, balance them a bit and they are the best choice for haven alternates

[Elvin]

Hmm in the case they DO become the alternates the renegades would be better balanced for the adventure map at least.

[Orfinn]

If the renegades are gonna be the alternatives, and hopefully tweaked, which units are gonna be the new neutrals? Quite alot of room to add old favorites on the adventure map then with beholders, yeti (the one that didnt make the cut in HoF), harpy, troglodytes, crystal dragon etc...

[Omega_Destroyer]

I'd like to see some Sea Monster and Mermaids make a come back. As things are now, the seas are really dull.

[Orfinn]

Agree Omega, oh and pirates and maybe even neutral nagas (since this is the last expansion after what I heard, the nagas may not get a town until H6)