Looking backward: First impressions on HoMM4

[Gaidal Cain]

Centaurs, on the other hand, are very nice, even with their short-range problems. (which are compunded by the berserkers not allowing the enemy to come into medium-range for them).

Even though it might be counter-intuitive, try putting the centaurs in the First row and Berserkers in the second. The Centaur's will have less problems with range, and it'll take a while longer for the Berserkers to reach the enemy.

Several battles (mainly seiges) began with the enemy getting morale rounds with their 400+ centaurs and 20+ cyclops, which quickly killed Wearjik twice before I got an action. Without any spellcasters to raise him in battle, that meant game over, even if my forces could win. In an individual scenario, I could have won the battle, and then raised the hero in the town.

if it's a siege, there's nor problem- Waerjak will be raised at the end of the battle, before the loss condition is checked.

Now, in map 2, I have maked out my level, so I may relegate Wearjik to a defensive role, so that getting a hero killed in battle will not lose the map.

That may prove a bad idea, as you might find you need to use Waerjac later.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

Centaurs, on the other hand, are very nice, even with their short-range problems. (which are compunded by the berserkers not allowing the enemy to come into medium-range for them).

Even though it might be counter-intuitive, try putting the centaurs in the First row and Berserkers in the second. The Centaur's will have less problems with range, and it'll take a while longer for the Berserkers to reach the enemy.

I'll try it, but I still don't like the total lack of control on them.

Several battles (mainly seiges) began with the enemy getting morale rounds with their 400+ centaurs and 20+ cyclops, which quickly killed Wearjik twice before I got an action. Without any spellcasters to raise him in battle, that meant game over, even if my forces could win. In an individual scenario, I could have won the battle, and then raised the hero in the town.

if it's a siege, there's nor problem- Waerjak will be raised at the end of the battle, before the loss condition is checked.

That's good to know. It should make things a little easier.

Now, in map 2, I have maked out my level, so I may relegate Wearjik to a defensive role, so that getting a hero killed in battle will not lose the map.

That may prove a bad idea, as you might find you need to use Waerjac later.

Well, if he is needed for a quest, I'll obviously bring him forward. I'll probably also take him out of retirement once I get a second hero to max level. (actually, since I only have 5 creature stacks, I might just take him with the new hero and be done with it

[Bandobras Took]

One interesting aspect of the Barbarian Campaign is that Waerjak has the opportunity for several buffs from the Barbarian Town's Wrestling Pits and whatnot, allowing him to reach almost obscene levels of attack and defense. I would bring him along for those free attack/defense points alone.

[ThunderTitan]

He could keep him in the back of the main army so he could lvl another hero...

[gravyluvr]

I still don't like the total lack of control on them.(Berserkers)

QD - not a spoiler but a gooid tactic - box the Berserkers. Try to set up a 3-3-1 formation. and stick Centaurs on the left/right of the middle row. I seam to recall using the following a lot:

Front: Waerjak - Harpies - Nomads (or 2nd hero)
Middle: Centaurs - Berserkers - Centaur
Back: Cyclops

Also, very early I used F=Waerjak - Centaur- Centaur. M = Centaur, Berserkers, Centaur. B=Centaur.

Then you can "unleash them" when you are ready.

Now, in map 2, I have maked out my level, so I may relegate Wearjik to a defensive role, so that getting a hero killed in battle will not lose the map.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your hero is maxxxed out then all the XP goes to the other heroes. If you leave him in the army you get the BONUS and you level your secondary heroes.

[Chorus]

Several battles (mainly seiges) began with the enemy getting morale rounds with their 400+ centaurs and 20+ cyclops, which quickly killed Wearjik twice before I got an action. Without any spellcasters to raise him in battle, that meant game over, even if my forces could win. In an individual scenario, I could have won the battle, and then raised the hero in the town.

if it's a siege, there's nor problem- Waerjak will be raised at the end of the battle, before the loss condition is checked.

That's good to know. It should make things a little easier.

Wait, I thought heroes could only be resurrected if the town had a mage guild. How can your heroes be resurrected after a successful siege of a barbarian town?

[Pol]

Wait, I thought heroes could only be resurrected if the town had a mage guild. How can your heroes be resurrected after a successful siege of a barbarian town?
... but they can. And message sounds that is a local temple service.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

I just want to let everyone know that I haven't forgotten this thread. I've just spent most of my game-playing time the last few days playing Twilight Princess on the Wii. I'll be getting back to H4 tonight - unless I feel the urge to scale death mountain, now that I have my iron boots and can Sumo wrestle...

[Qurqirish Dragon]

I just want to let everyone know that I haven't forgotten this thread. I've just spent most of my game-playing time the last few days playing Twilight Princess on the Wii. I'll be getting back to H4 tonight - unless I feel the urge to scale death mountain, now that I have my iron boots and can Sumo wrestle...

Well, I did go back to Zelda, but only because my computer decided it had to download avious software updates - and I am on dial-up at home. (How big is the most recent Windows update? It only got to about 50% before I decided I really wanted to do other stuff. It's still going now. meybe I should have left the computer on overnight!)

Anyway, I did finish map #2, and got my secondary hero up to level 19, and only 3000 xp shy of level 20 (the cap), so things are decent here. I did come to the possible problem of not getting the hero I wanted, as I did fight one large battle with my defending force, and the hero attached to it got 12 levels off the battle. Fortunately my true secondary hero (a druid, so I'd have some magic ability) surpassed the level. However, this does pose the question: which hero is considered strongest in H4? Highest level? highest stats? most skills? most advanced class? Since heroes in the garrison do not appear on the hero list, I assume only active heroes count, and since I only had the two active heroes at the end of the map, I had nothing to worry about. However, should I dismiss extra heroes (if possible) when finishing the map. I say "if possible" because there could be a loss condition that prevents it, or in a map with few creatures (such as an RPG map), the extra hero might be needed to win.

On the bright side, with my druid gaining levels (while being escorted by Wearjik), I dropped the berserkers in exchange for the elves that were being summoned each day. If I had gone back to the nature town, I probably would have dropped the centaurs and harpies for phoenix and mantises (I had over a dozen each built up), but as I was pushing just to get experience and finish the map, even caravans would not have been able to catch up with my main force.

So it is now on to map 3.

[Akul]

As far as I know, dismissing heroes in H4 is impossible. Once you hire it, that hero shall be on your side for the rest of the map.

[pepak]

However, this does pose the question: which hero is considered strongest in H4? Highest level? highest stats? most skills? most advanced class?

Depends on who does the considering, the map, the purpose of the hero etc. The game only considers level.

However, should I dismiss extra heroes (if possible) when finishing the map.

You can do that. Even easier would be hiding that hero in a Sanctuary, and possibly in a mine as well (haven't tried that).

As far as I know, dismissing heroes in H4 is impossible.

Not quite. Go to the army screen, choose your hero and press D.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

However, this does pose the question: which hero is considered strongest in H4? Highest level? highest stats? most skills? most advanced class?

Depends on who does the considering, the map, the purpose of the hero etc. The game only considers level.

That, of course, is what I wanted to know, since the game will determine the carry-over hero(es).

However, should I dismiss extra heroes (if possible) when finishing the map.

You can do that. Even easier would be hiding that hero in a Sanctuary, and possibly in a mine as well (haven't tried that).

So, a hero in a garrison (or otherwise not in one of the active armies) doesn't count? That's good to know. I forget if previous Heroes games count them.

[pepak]

So, a hero in a garrison (or otherwise not in one of the active armies) doesn't count? That's good to know. I forget if previous Heroes games count them.

I never said that. I said a dismissed hero doesn't count, a hero in sanctuary doesn't count and possibly hero in a mine doesn't count.

[HodgePodge]

So, a hero in a garrison (or otherwise not in one of the active armies) doesn't count? That's good to know. I forget if previous Heroes games count them.

I never said that. I said a dismissed hero doesn't count, a hero in sanctuary doesn't count and possibly hero in a mine doesn't count.

Except in Heroes IV there isn't anyway to dismiss a Hero. In one Campaign (I believe it was The True Blade - The Wheel Scenario) I had two heroes which I wanted to keep from the first & second maps. But then I released another Hero from a prison which I didn't want to carry over to subsequent maps; so I got him killed off. Unfortunately, even though he was a "gravestone" in The Wheel map, he still was one of the Heroes which carried over to the next map.

[pepak]

Except in Heroes IV there isn't anyway to dismiss a Hero.

Did you actually read my post at the top of this page?

[ThunderTitan]

Except in Heroes IV there isn't anyway to dismiss a Hero.

Did you actually read my post at the top of this page?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say she didn't...

[Qurqirish Dragon]

I am now into the 4th map of the campaign (and I assume it is the last, since there is no carry-over listed in the scenario description)

I have found that my heroes are dominating the maps. I have Wearjak with his buffed-up combat and tatics (and basic summoning) for nowing down enemies, and another hero (I forget her name) with a complete nature magic, and a lot of combat.

Through the nature magic, I am summoning creatures into my force every day, and have found that the water elementals are key. Between fatigue for flying troops and quicksand for walkers, even one or two of them is enough to cripple most enemies, while the heroes (with grandmaster archery on one and master on the other) can quickly dispatch enemy ranged troops, or clobber the others at leisure. To speed up the battles, I have been taking centaurs, cyclops, and thunderbirds into battle as well, but the thunderbirds more often then not just defend. They are only useful in seige, and even then summonning a few wolves to take down the drawbridge is usually more morth it. Mass fortune in larger battles reduces my injuries to pathetic levels. The only thing that would make this easier would be if I could choose the creature summoned each day (to guarantee that I always get a water elemental; as long as I have one already I can do this by making certain there are no empty army slots, but if I don't have one, it may take several days before I get one.)

Comparing with the other elementals, I think water is by far the strongest. It is definitely the most versitile (fatigue, weakness, and quicksand, along with good spell points, makes even one of them great. Once they are in any quantity, ice bolt becomes good also!) Teh summoning spells are also great. The few that Wearjak has can be used for distractions, while my beastmaster calls up the waspworts for range or wolves in large quantity for drawbridge-smashing.

Since a similar situation (although with different hero types and abilities) happened in the last campaign, I can see that heroes are definitely overpowered, even without immortality potions or guardian angel spells. In single scenarios, where you are unlikely to buff them up so much or gain high levels this may not be the case, but for the campaigns it is too much. I'll see how the single scenarios work after the campaigns, but I feel that until I start with the fan-maps things will be too easy. I like having heroes on the battlefield, but these put to shame any commander that appears in WoG. I would guess that a good campaign should have very few sites or jewels that improve the attack and defence skills. Spell points are plentiful enough anyway that I don't think that is a problem.

As for summoning, I haven't used all the different magics yet (I haven't even had access to chaos or death magic yet), so I cannot say anything about its relative power. However, I do find I am using summoning spells a lot more than I have in any previous HoMM (and remember, as I have said repeatedly, that HoMM5 is considered previous for me!). The power of fortune also has me using that spell a lot (I NEVER used it in H3, except to see what the animation looked like) It is like a super-stoneskin spell. The mass version is spectacular.

Unless something really unexpected happens, I do not expect to comment again until I have started the next campaign (which will likely be today or tomorrow, so not too long a wait). I'll see whatever is third in order, but I may try out the chaos or death campaign even if they are not up next, just to try out them. You'll all have my decision in the next installment.

[HodgePodge]

Except in Heroes IV there isn't anyway to dismiss a Hero.

Did you actually read my post at the top of this page?

Not quite. Go to the army screen, choose your hero and press D.

Well, I did but I must've missed that part. This is news to me. I didn't know you could dismiss a hero by just pressing D in the army screen Thanks for the info.

*going right now to test out this theory*

Wow! It works! I can't believe I've played Heroes IV for all this time and never knew that a Hero could be dismissed. Thanks again Pepak.

[Akul]

You learn new things about this game every day, don't you HP?

I bet that there are still many of those who don't know that they can change the names of heroes in taverns

[pepak]

You learn new things about this game every day, don't you HP?

I bet that there are still many of those who don't know that they can change the names of heroes in taverns :)

Was just about to mention it :-)