Looking backward: First impressions on HoMM4

[Jolly Joker]

@ Qurqirish Dragon

I'm not going into detail here because I don't want to spoil the experience, but you may want to take another step back from everything you know about the other Heroes games so far when playing H 4. One thing to realize is that the might stats are working differently because attack is divided by defense and then the result ist multiplied with the damage which means that level 1 creatures are fairly useless already against level 3s.
The main thing to realize, though, is that Heroes 4 is definitely NOT about having armies that see all your TROOPS employed (which is the first thing that comes to mind: 5 armies, 1 might and 1 magic hero). There are differences here for the factions, of course, and you should put some thought into the question what type of hero will use your remaining armies best considering what magic your town has to offer. Life town, for example, offers Order and Nature spells as well, and BOTH of those have spells that allow putting additional creatures onto the BF, while Nature offers the additional chance for getting one of the neutralizer spells (Wasp Swarm) which could come in handy in case you don't get Song of Peace in the Life guild.
Since I see that I'm already going into detail I'm stopping here. So simply again the point I'd wanted to make: don't play "mechanically" that way that you go the "logical" way. Consider the worth of your troops and consider the potential worth of heroes and act accordingly.

[ThunderTitan]

The potions are spell school affiliated, that's why you get some of them next to the spells.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

@ GC: I guess I missed the griffin in the town lists. That would have helped in gauging their strength.
About the seige: I have a typo. it should have said "flying or the main gate." Basically I meant that you have to invade through the main gate - a choke point, rather than being able to smash the walls as in other games. I think it is silly that you can melee through the wall.

@JJ: I am already working very differently on map 2 of the campaign. Having just the 4 heroes and no other troops is making a very different battle (guardian angel, regeneration and the mass wards are really saving me in these battles!) I'm glad I got GM life magic for one of my heroes in map 1, since the ressurrection skill is useless without stackable forces.
I did find that low-level troops were not completely worthless in map 1, but if I were to do it again, I would probably go with two heroes, all of the level 3 and 4 troops (from two towns, of course) and one of the range striking creatures from levels 1 and 2. Possibly with an unled army of the other three troops following to be swapped in specific circumstances.

@TT: I have no problem with the potions being spell-affiliated, but I would like to be able to see JUST the spells (there is a tab to view everything other than spell, I just want the reverse also.)

[gravyluvr]

I have no problem with the potions being spell-affiliated, but I would like to be able to see JUST the spells (there is a tab to view everything other than spell, I just want the reverse also.)

Actually... on the right of the spell book you should see a tab for each school of magic (Life, Nature, Chaos, etc.) by color. Also for potions. If you click on that it will filter only those school's spells. That should help.

Plus, the top tabs are for Direct Damage (DD), Curse, Bless, and Summon Spells.

[ThunderTitan]

The potions still show, i checked before opening my mouth. (the game looks so much better on a 19" monitor).

Oh, and QD, if you feel that there are too many spells per page click on the ? next to them, i love the descriptions myself.

[Corribus]

Qqd - where did you get your copy of H4 complete?

[BoardGuest808888]

I also found that I really need to learn the strengths of the new creatures- and even some of the old ones were very surprising. a moderate stack of griffin caused a lot more casualties to my forces than their other-HoMM game couterparts would have against a similar stage army.

Of course, just knowing the level of a creature didn't make things too easy either. A group of venom spawn made quick work of a secondary force. Fortunately, I had the foresight to save before that battle so I wasn't set back several weeks.

Might be one new experience from multitude of layers and upgrades in previous games simplified into 4 layers without upgrades at which you should even choose for 3

[Psychobabble]

Interesting project!

I must say I agree with what hodge said earlier. You don't really appreciate H4 until you start playing custom maps. I was lucky in that I had enough time when H4 came out to be able to play a very high percentage of custom maps on CH right from the start (at one stage I had played and reviewed every map bar one in the database - about 30). This not only gave me some great game experiences, I was able to get excited as new techniques were discovered and watch as those ideas spread in the next wave of maps. It was truly amazing to watch as the community used the editor to take the game far beyond where NWC/3DO had gone. If you get a chance once you've played the campaigns, do check out my map picks page (think it's still listed on the left menu on the H4 section of the main page) and play through at least my top 10, and also some of the innovative or other good ones. That's where the game really shines imo.

[Bandobras Took]

I'll restrain my comments to things already mentioned.

The town screen seems muted. I find it difficult to find individual buildings. Fortunately, there is a quick-menu at the bottom. Still, the atmosphere is a bit less than I would have liked. However, this is really no different from H5, so I can't fault it. I think mouse-over highlighting, as in H3, would have been nice, however.

Though one aspect that Heroes 4 town-building leaves out is making a dwelling look like an organic part of the whole -- when I build the Dragon Cliffs in the Rampart in H3, the cliffs extend from a nearby mountain range. When I build a Magic Forest in H4, it's a magic forest completely isolated from every other forest in town -- ofttimes growing in lava. For a player who values theme as much or more as strategy, that's a bit of a turn-off.

GM Combat + Potion of Immortality when ever it's your turn. Use MR against the Dragons.

Speaking as someone who did not give up on the game after the first week (played it for a few years); you've effectively stated one of the reasons I grew disenchanted.

[Sir Charles]

The one item I'm curious to know is your opinion on the addictiveness-factor. It's easy to play a game for hours when it's unknown and brand new to you....but after some time passes, do you still maintain that desire to take "just one more turn"? While I enjoyed the game and thought it had MANY interesting new features, it was that missing "something" that led me back to h3. I never felt inclined to stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning just to finish off just one more objective. Anyway, let us know where your desire to play level is as you move along. And have fun. The campaigns are BY FAR the most polished and well done aspect of the game IMO. Top notch.

[ThunderTitan]

GM Combat + Potion of Immortality when ever it's your turn. Use MR against the Dragons.

Speaking as someone who did not give up on the game after the first week (played it for a few years); you've effectively stated one of the reasons I grew disenchanted.

It's munchkinism, but IMO it's better then "wait a few weeks 4 enough troops"!

[Qurqirish Dragon]

Qqd - where did you get your copy of H4 complete?

Check this thread. I also have my impressions of the store in there.

[Corribus]

Qqd - where did you get your copy of H4 complete?

Check this thread. I also have my impressions of the store in there.

Thanks. I'm not sure I need another copy of H3 complete, since I've already got about 4.

[Bonzer]

Hi QD, I remember you and your reviews / articles from the Astral Wizard site of several years ago. Read and enjoyed them all, soaked them up like a sponge. Which is why I am very interested in your take on H4.

I wouldn't say I bashed it, not my style, but it was very short lived on my hard drive. However, I knew why and am waiting to see how you feel about the main problem I found....AI strategy and tactics.

I remember well the times I would approach enemy territory only to find they hadn't claimed mines, had recruited few creatures, and were busy still riding right past them as I uncovered the map. I found too many occasions when the maps played as though they were designed to be unopposed until the end (like some custom H3 / H5 ones can be), but even then, there was not enough of a force waiting. I am not what you would call a power gamer, I really am referring to small stacks of weak creatures several months in. I tend to play all my H* games on standard difficulty.

There was an interview / article I beleive with one of the designers who explained that there were too many variables for the AI to choose from (or something like that), and yes, AI in game prioritising was a problem.

So QD, in the light of your illuminated experience, do you find the AI a bit dumb (compared to H3)?

and, (to those who have played many custom maps), was the AI ever impoved as the mapmakers / modders learned more about the game?

I would like to give it another shot, but not without the AI being better than I remember. (Unless I'm missing something).

Bonzer

[Meandor]

IIRC some custom maps have "decent" AI but it`s more due to map design that AI itself.

[Caradoc]

IIRC some custom maps have "decent" AI but it`s more due to map design that AI itself.

The main thing mapmakers had to learn was to use the AI as a way of enhancing set encounters rather than as a pseudo-human opponent. After that, ways were discovered to make AI heroes more aggressive and to make AI towns stronger.

[Elvin]

The one item I'm curious to know is your opinion on the addictiveness-factor. It's easy to play a game for hours when it's unknown and brand new to you....but after some time passes, do you still maintain that desire to take "just one more turn"? While I enjoyed the game and thought it had MANY interesting new features, it was that missing "something" that led me back to h3. I never felt inclined to stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning just to finish off just one more objective. Anyway, let us know where your desire to play level is as you move along. And have fun. The campaigns are BY FAR the most polished and well done aspect of the game IMO. Top notch.

QFE! That's exactly how I felt. The initial excitement wore off after some time and I began to see things I didn't really like or were badly balanced. I didn't feel like playing as much as I did with H3 but the campaigns I remember still as an example of great storytelling. My final view on H4 was as a fun experiment that in the end proved disappointing.

[ThunderTitan]

I hated it in the beginning... but then again i had to play without sound and sht just so it would only crash every 30 minutes.

[PhoenixReborn]

Elvin did you try equilibrus mod? I'm really looking forward to Gotp, but some day I'm going to go through heroes iv equi.

[Jolly Joker]

I belong into the Sir Charles and Elvin group. After some weeks of playing I seemed to be missing "the kick". Since then I've made 3 major attempts to try and find the kick, but it simply doesn't work.
While I really liked the campaign STORIES in H4 I just couldn't bring it over me to actually play out the campaign maps. The gameplay is simply boring and so I didn't finish neither the Nature campaign I started with nor the Death campaign which I tried due to the interesting story.