Another Stage of the Demarked Map of Axeloth

[ThunderTitan]

We can be pretty sure that not all creatures in the H3 Inferno are Kreegans

Lucifer Kreegan was an arch-devil, right?

[Gaidal Cain]

IIRC, yes.

And SoC: I'm a bit rusty on all the H3 lore, but I don't think it's ever said in H3 that Inferno creature==Kreegan. Kareeah can probably give more insight on the matter. As I understand it, HoMM2/3 and MM6-8 are pretty consistent.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

IIRC, yes.

And SoC: I'm a bit rusty on all the H3 lore, but I don't think it's ever said in H3 that Inferno creature==Kreegan. Kareeah can probably give more insight on the matter. As I understand it, HoMM2/3 and MM6-8 are pretty consistent.

The thing is that Kreegans are essentially a political faction, not a race.

The Kreegans are kind of the demonic ruling elite perhaps/

[Gaidal Cain]

Indeed. Have I said different?

[HodgePodge]

I just replayed the entire Armageddon's Blade Campaign (with roland, Catherine & Gelu). After all this time, a few points were cleared up for me as far as the timeline goes.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I haven't completely forgiven 3do/NWC for destroying Antagarich with that lame Reckoning plot line. I'd sure like to discover that Roland, Catherine, Nicolai, Gelu, Kilgore, Sandro, Alkin, Thorgrim, Judge Fairweather and many other Heroes and citizens of Antagarich also escaped into the new world and went on with their adventuring lives.

[Gaidal Cain]

At least two of them certainly did

[ThunderTitan]

I'd sure like to discover that Roland, Catherine, Nicolai, Gelu, Kilgor, Sandro, Alkin, Thorgrim, Judge Fairweather and many other Heroes and citizens of Antagarich also escaped into the new world and went on with their adventuring lives.

Sandro was in H4, even if not in any campaigns... but his presence and bio says to me he

Gelu and Kilgor though were at ground zero, so they're pretty much atoms right now. Never really cared for either, so I'm fine. The rest of you can eat cake. regrets watching Marie Antoinette

[Kareeah Indaga]

The thing is that Kreegans are essentially a political faction, not a race.

The Kreegans are kind of the demonic ruling elite perhaps/

No, the Kreegan are a race. If you want political factions, you could count Clan Kreelah and any other Kreegan clans, and possibly the Sons of Erebus and/or the Fist of Unholy Might in the Kreegan military. Maybe the Temple of Baa before it was largely dismantled. But the terms ‘Kreegan(s)’, ‘devils’, and ‘demons’ are used interchangeably and it is outright stated a few times that the latter two are just more commonly used to refer to the Kreegan race. ‘Kreegan’ is not a political faction.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

No, the Kreegan are a race. If you want political factions, you could count Clan Kreelah and any other Kreegan clans, and possibly the Sons of Erebus and/or the Fist of Unholy Might in the Kreegan military. Maybe the Temple of Baa before it was largely dismantled. But the terms ‘Kreegan(s)’, ‘devils’, and ‘demons’ are used interchangeably and it is outright stated a few times that the latter two are just more commonly used to refer to the Kreegan race. ‘Kreegan’ is not a political faction.

They are a race in Might and Magic.

However there is a distinction made between Kreegans and Demons in Heroes of Might and Magic.

The Kreegans fled to another world, the demons are left behind.

The Kreegans are always used in a political context, they are a nation that makes alliances and fights wars. The creatures themselves, are merely called demons or devils.

[Kareeah Indaga]

They are a race in Might and Magic.

However there is a distinction made between Kreegans and Demons in Heroes of Might and Magic.

The Kreegans fled to another world, the demons are left behind.

The Kreegans are always used in a political context, they are a nation that makes alliances and fights wars. The creatures themselves, are merely called demons or devils.

No, they aren’t, there isn’t, they didn’t because they’re the same thing, and they aren’t. “Demons” “Kreegan” “Devils” and even occasionally “Devilkin” are all used interchangeably, as I just said, with no distinctions made between them. Don’t try to delude me on this, I have the text sitting right in front of me. If you want to prove me wrong, then find an example; all the theorizing in the world means nothing without some proof to back it up.

[Gaidal Cain]

Actually, Kreegans can't be the same as Inferno creatures, because if that's the case, NWC seriously goofed up (Gogs in MM8, inferno creatures in H4 and MM9). So there's something more to it than they just being creatures- they're certianly not the same as the units. They might be the MM7 creatures, but then they're strangely absent from the Heroes games in terms of visuals.

[ThunderTitan]

Kreegans are lvl 7's... unlike in Ashan race in the previous world didn't include 4 legged creatures or other completely different looking things. So it's the Devils that are the Kreegan race, the rest are servants and creations.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Actually, Kreegans can't be the same as Inferno creatures,

I don’t recall stating they were, universally speaking. Most of them certainly are, as Roland was captured by the Kreegan and, low and behold, Inferno towns were guarding the place he was supposed to be in RoE. And the Inferno and Dungeon towns were allied in RoE, and afterwards in MM7 there is mention made in Nighon about the Warlocks/Overlords of Nighon “overstepping themselves” and the Kreegan not helping them out. And the Kreegan were referred to in the Dungeons and Devils campaigns (Dungeon Overlord narrator:“Our Kreegan allies will enjoy the slaughter” and then you play as an Inferno town to kill the Gold Dragon Queen). But I know Efreets aren’t. (See below.)

because if that's the case, NWC seriously goofed up (Gogs in MM8, inferno creatures in H4 and MM9).

*considers* Casting aside for a moment the simplest explanation (‘They’re there because we needed more fire-based monsters.’), MM8 Gogs could be like Efreets; from the Plane of Fire, and not demons themselves, but allied with the Kreegan for the purpose of giving the Inferno town 7 tiers (naturally the in-game explanation would be different). Alternatively, they could be Kreegan but of a low enough power not to set off Escaton’s demon-dar*, and either a splinter group from one of the two major infestations (fled from Enroth, maybe, after the Ritual of the Void was cast?), survivors from the Demon War who had gotten locked in the Plane of Fire and escaped when the portal opened, or…hmmm…maybe they were the tail end of the retreat to the world Gauldoth found them on?

I’ll check my notes for anything pertinent.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with H4 and MM9, though. Do you mean their presence there after being removed from Enroth? Axeoth could have been invaded separately (and perhaps more discreetly than Enroth), and with Escaton gone there wouldn’t even be the threat of the planet being blown up for having them there. (Unless he had multiples of himself like Corak, though he refers to himself in the singular so he may not.) Let me know if that’s not what you meant.

So there's something more to it than they just being creatures- they're certianly not the same as the units. They might be the MM7 creatures, but then they're strangely absent from the Heroes games in terms of visuals.

Kreegan are like ants; they don’t have to all look or act similar, unlike humans, elves, dwarves or whatever else. (And yes I do have reference, here:

"Most of the devils you see in Pleasant Valley are in fact worker or soldier devils. They are organized like ants, only they have intelligent leaders. The leaders can fly, and their best leaders can use human speech and writing."

*assuming he has one, and didn’t just come because Melian phoned him on the Wire that there was an infestation that had been there for too long. Must make note to look that up…

[Avonu]

About Kreegan:

From H3 manual (my translation to English - may be not correct) - Inferno discribe:
Infernoes are paleced in ruined areas where underworld get out to the world. Demoniacs and Heretics are in forced alliance with this city.

Devils from Inferno are Kreegan but other units may be in natural inhabitants of Antagarich or Plane of Fire or other places - not realated directly with Kreegan. For some reason they allied with Devils (or maybe Kreegan conquered they races).

Xyron felt the Kreegan demons failed all too often, so he convinced his fellow efreeti to end their alliance with them. Now, his people are freer than they have ever been.

Axeoth could have been invaded separately (and perhaps more discreetly than Enroth)

No - Kreegan weren't on Axeoth before Galdouth bring them (or rather they not survived to H4 time).

(...) My observer learnt that they ["monsters from stars arrived in boat from metal" - probably Ancients] said to ruler of that country when Day of Heavens come, he will be know what to do with this building [huge building with spire aiming sky].
(...)
During (archeological) excavation in Beldonian Province I saw pictures in caves imaging people fighting with demons on sky/air. It isn't know who they were and what was reason of they fight but I doubt that primitive beings which created these images can individually think out something that.

[Marzhin]

During (archeological) excavation in Beldonian Province I saw pictures in caves imaging people fighting with demons on sky/air. It isn't know who they were and what was reason of they fight but I doubt that primitive beings which created these images can individually think out something that.

Funny, for you it is proof Kreegans didn't came to Axeoth while I understood the contrary : Kreegans and Ancients did fought on Axeoth before, the primitives witnessed their fight and painted it in their caves.

[ThunderTitan]

Funny, for you it is proof Kreegans didn't came to Axeoth while I understood the contrary : Kreegans and Ancients did fought on Axeoth before, the primitives witnessed their fight and painted it in their caves.

He did say: (or rather they not survived to H4 time).

[Marzhin]

Funny, for you it is proof Kreegans didn't came to Axeoth while I understood the contrary : Kreegans and Ancients did fought on Axeoth before, the primitives witnessed their fight and painted it in their caves.

He did say: (or rather they not survived to H4 time).

Oops, I had misread this statement I think. Sorry.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Axeoth could have been invaded separately (and perhaps more discreetly than Enroth)

No - Kreegan weren't on Axeoth before Galdouth bring them (or rather they not survived to H4 time).

(...) My observer learnt that they ["monsters from stars arrived in boat from metal" - probably Ancients] said to ruler of that country when Day of Heavens come, he will be know what to do with this building [huge building with spire aiming sky].
(...)
During (archeological) excavation in Beldonian Province I saw pictures in caves imaging people fighting with demons on sky/air. It isn't know who they were and what was reason of they fight but I doubt that primitive beings which created these images can individually think out something that.

Ooo, thanks. I guess I can scratch that theory then. Any objections?

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

I don’t recall stating they were, universally speaking. Most of them certainly are, as Roland was captured by the Kreegan and, low and behold, Inferno towns were guarding the place he was supposed to be in RoE. And the Inferno and Dungeon towns were allied in RoE, and afterwards in MM7 there is mention made in Nighon about the Warlocks/Overlords of Nighon “overstepping themselves” and the Kreegan not helping them out. And the Kreegan were referred to in the Dungeons and Devils campaigns (Dungeon Overlord narrator:“Our Kreegan allies will enjoy the slaughter” and then you play as an Inferno town to kill the Gold Dragon Queen). But I know Efreets aren’t. (See below.)

The Kreegans as I said earlier, are more of a political faction than a race.

"The Kreegans" is a political designator.

The Kreegans are pretty much your traditional hellish demons in Heroes III. They are not space aliens from the sky, angels come from the sky.

[Gaidal Cain]

The Kreegans as I said earlier, are more of a political faction than a race.

Most likely, they're both.

The Kreegans are pretty much your traditional hellish demons in Heroes III. They are not space aliens from the sky, angels come from the sky.

Denial is such a wondrous thing...