Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War

[ThunderTitan]

You forgot that Necrons only need Energy, and capture points to speed up their build cycle.

[Campaigner]

Wh40k: Dark Crusade has so many things that make it unique and better then other RTS games. The strategic point system f.e. makes it impossible to bunker up in the traditional sense, you have to capture strat points to get resources and defend and build listening posts on them (doubles requisition rate).
ALL maps are completely symmetric though, so both players got equal distance to everything.

All strat points get taken the first two minutes of the game, and if your enemy gets two more then you (can't be one, since all of'em are always taken) for just a minute, it can very well mean game over. So sitting back and relaxing will cost you the game.

I don't think there's a demo of Dark Crusade (the latest expansion), but the older versions aren't "complete" (f.e. stealth only works the way it was supposed to in Dark Crusade) so if you try the DoW demo, remember that balance and gameplay have been changed quite a bit (overhaul of the Eldar techtree happened in Winter Assault, its first expansion f.e.) so you don't that f.e. Eldar are as utterly broken as they were in DoW.

To summarise, I HIGHLY recommend this game! But get the complete version which holds the full game and its two expansions since you need a valid serial for game to play the associated races in multiplayer.

[ThunderTitan]

The strategic point system f.e. makes it impossible to bunker up in the traditional sense, you have to capture strat points to get resources and defend and build listening posts on them (doubles requisition rate). All strat points get taken the first two minutes of the game, and if your enemy gets two more then you (can't be one, since all of'em are always taken) for just a minute, it can very well mean game over. So sitting back and relaxing will cost you the game.

Not always a good thing. But isn't the IG meant for turtling? And the Necrons don't really need more SPoints after they reach 100% build speed.

(f.e. stealth only works the way it was supposed to in Dark Crusade)

I do like it better in DC, but invisible until you attacked can have it's uses too.

[vhilhu]

i asked about similarities with wc3 because the graphics style was similarly cartoony (and for some time i thought it was a quasiripoff of wc3).

iirc i have played a similar game "Dark Omen", but i didnt enjoy that one. played only the demo of it.

[ThunderTitan]

i asked about similarities with wc3 because the graphics style was similarly cartoony

Bite your tongue... it's really not as cartoony as WC3. Well maybe the orkz.

(and for some time i thought it was a quasiripoff of wc3).

Warcraft and Starcraft are WH and WH40k ripoffs. Always have been. WC3 is where they started to differentiate them more (even if Burning Legion = Chaos).

[Omega_Destroyer]

No kidding. Warcraft and Starcraft majorly ripped off Warhammer and WH40k.

[Campaigner]

i asked about similarities with wc3 because the graphics style was similarly cartoony (and for some time i thought it was a quasiripoff of wc3).

No you didn't :p And I don't understand how you can see the graphicsstyles as similar. I think they're very different. Is it because of the 3D camera?

The only thing it got in common with WarCraft III is what it got in common with every highquality fastpaced RTS on the market. Build buildings, troops, research technologies, take over the map and kill the enemy.

But if you want a more indepth guide then sure.

Firstly, there's heroes, but you don't _really_ need them like you do in WarCraft III (but without them your chances of winning goes down a bit) but they're very powerful and are a force to be reckoned with. Everybody uses them since it's easier to control one powerful guy instead of three squads (to get the same power) and their abilities are a great help.

The other similarity is that (like in other fastpaced RTS games) you need to be FAST and effective to stand a chance on the harder A.I settings. Micromanagement is also extremely important since any squad that can to melee can tie up another squad. It works like this, that if one of my units (any character that can melee) attacks one of your squads in melee, then your squad can't shoot and must therefore run, fight in melee or use special abilities.

It's so different that you should try it out. Here are links:
Dark Crusade

Winter Assault

Dawn of War

[ThunderTitan]

The only thing it got in common with WarCraft III is what it got in common with every highquality fastpaced RTS on the market.

That and being based on the same original intelectual propriety.

[vhilhu]

ok, i tried downloading a demo right now, but it says "Selected mirror is currently full as capacity was reached." even if the server is only 50% full. grrr.

personally, i think of AoE2 as the single best rts ever (a good combo of AoE and stronghold), its only drawback was that it was very hard to completely destroy an enemy, it always took looooong. what i really hated about wc3 and sc was the massive clickfest. most units have some non-auto abilities, so you must have masses of autokeys in mind all the time, that imho shouldnt be so important factor. a good rts would have most of its unit specials attached to the default attack. WHY CAN NO LARGE COMPANY EVER SEE THAT?

[Omega_Destroyer]

Speaking of rts games, has anyone played Supreme Commander? I would like to, but I fear my laptop wouldn't be able to handle it on the lowest settings.

[ThunderTitan]

Speaking of rts games, has anyone played Supreme Commander?

Played the demo... didn't run very well. It's rather weird and the interface needs a big overhaul, but it feels pretty fun.

[Omega_Destroyer]

Maybe I'll give the demo a shot. Maybe it won't chug as much as I think it will.

Oh, and have you tried Command & Conquer 3 yet?

[ThunderTitan]

Oh, and have you tried Command & Conquer 3 yet?

It's out?

[Omega_Destroyer]

The demo should be here:

http://www.3dgamers.com

[Campaigner]

Vilhu - If we divide RTS games in two parts - slow and fast ones - then it's clear that the Warhammer 40.000 franschise is not for you since time is a vital resource and if you're not fast you lose.

I always disliked Age of <insert random empire here> cause it was so frickin slow. Buildup peroid always took 10min and THEN the fighting started. Even Age of Mythology (which was the fastest Age of x ever) was too slow for my taste.

I liked WarCraft IIIs UI features such as autocast spells, tabbing through groups etc since it made it easier to control. No surprise, the "pros" at StarCraft was fanatically against these features since it required less skill. They argued that there was a difference between the nr.1 and 10 in the world because of the amount of clicks needed, and if WarCraft III features would turn up in StarCraft, there would be less of a difference and more people could be good....

*Sigh*. While I do agree that skill is making fast decisions and making them happen quickly, they never had a good answer on why the original WarCraft wasn't more "professional" since there wasn't alot of hotkeys for attack, patrol etc....

Try another mirror. They've always worked for me.

[ThunderTitan]

The demo should be here:

http://www.3dgamers.com

I used the official site... http://www.commandandconquer.com/

Will play shortly (damn school).

[vhilhu]

I always disliked Age of <insert random empire here> cause it was so frickin slow. Buildup peroid always took 10min and THEN the fighting started. Even Age of Mythology (which was the fastest Age of x ever) was too slow for my taste.

the town hall in AoE2 was a bad slowing thing, but in wc3, too, humans have militia and orcs have burrows. you really dont have to advance all the way to imperial age to attack someone. and, (the best note ever), use smaller maps

what i also dislike about the fast rts, you cant improvise much, if you try to do some small task force attack for some specific reason, your base or main force is certain to get attacked in the meantime, and you cant control them both at a time conveniently.

kekekeke. i just lost my status as 666.

---

hmm. i checked wikipedia about c&c3 now. they added aliens? into c&c? thats a dangerous way, it might make the devs include more aliens and before you know it, it has klackons, space orcs, amobeas etc... i didnt search much about them, but imo better is either all-human or total fantasy scifi. such mixes might end up bad.

[ThunderTitan]

they added aliens? into c&c?

Where do you think Tiberium comes from?! From the "final frontier" of course.

Oh, and pls use this one for C&C3 talks: viewtopic.php?p=129037#129037

[ThunderTitan]

Wow, Relic takes patches very seriously:
http://www.relicrank.com/bloggo/2007/03 ... changelog/

I wonder if they'll ever finish balancing it.

[Omega_Destroyer]

No kidding.

Way too many changes to make the game "balanced." Plus it doesn't really help having a patch for a game that I've played to death.