Alone in the universe?

[Pol]

In fact we may actually stumble on beings more like us then we might anticipate. Sure they may look different, but the basic personality traits might be similar. This might be a bad thing, however, for mankind has a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later.

Yeah, silence is best reply ever. In name of humanity!!
[Of course, that's from some movie ]

Cooperation between people is low, it can be enhanced, but people mostly ignore it.

[ThunderTitan]

Kinda like Occam's Razor.

Nope, not at all.

Using Occam's Razor as proof is pretty much a fallacy. Just like using that equation.

But is there any forward planning? My knowledge of the this is pretty bare-bones, but isn't evolution merely an issue of continuous mutations, where the advantageous ones make the mutated individual successful and able to get offspring to carry on the mutation, whilst the unsuccessful mutations result in the "mutants" death?

It's prob more about the most succesfull mutation for that niche. But there are many a "how evolution works" theories.


And GC, it's not a question of how long mammals have been around vs dinosaurs, but one of how long life has been around.


But leave the "what is evolution" talk for the other thread, for this thread evolution on it's own is a given, as any other model makes life (or at least intelligent one) unique to Earth.

[Caradoc]

The term "intelligent life" is hard to nail down. It's pretty damned arrogant to define 'intelligence' as the ability to communicate with us. And whatever behaviors we employ as the criteria for 'intelligence' are certain to be equally self centered and arbitrary.

'Life' is even more slippery. Does it require DNA (or maybe RNA)? If we limit the definition to what we see on Earth, then we impose some pretty stiff limitations on temperature, atmosphere, radiation levels, and so on. If fresh liquid water is a requirement, we rule out virtually all other planets. It is a scientific mystery how the Earth has managed to retain so much of its water, given the extreme heat that prevailed early on.

So is the Earth so unique that it is the only place intelligent life could have appeared? It is fallacious to reason than an infinite universe guarantees that all possibilities must be realized. (This mean that there must therefore somewhere be a cubical world inhabited by pink kangaroos.)

My conclusion is that 'life' itself came from 'out there', but 'intelligence' as we know it emerged here. There may be other slants on intelligence elsewhere, but they may not be recognizable to us. However, sometimes I get depressed and think of Charles Fort's hypothesis: we are being fished for.

[Mytical]

[quote="Corribus
(And it's not being discussed in the religion thread any longer because everyone who doesn't believe in it ran away due to the whole "based on logic" thing. )[/quote]

More like most not even giving two seconds to let go of their ego and even consider that they may be wrong. Why continue to discuss when neither side is even willing to listen. . But I digress.

One day we will come to understand that what we know is so limited it is not even funny. Yet instead of working together (everybody) we get so wrapped up in ourselves that we don't even consider that somebody who thinks different from us could have valuable input. To fully know our potential both competition and cooperation is needed. Maybe then we will be able to break through some boundries in space travel. Right now we are like bacteria, we spread/devour/multiply and repeat. Why would any sane intelligent life, if it exsist want to chance being infected by approaching us. People can be smart, and helpful, and 'nice'. Mankind so far has proven to be unintelligent, destructive, and meanspirited. Maybe one day when we 'evolve' we can actually be as benificial as a species as we can be as individuals.

Right now though, everybody thinks they know better then anybody else. Never going to get anywhere that way. Yeah I know, you think I want everybody to hold hands sing kumbia and everything will be peaches and roses. No, I know reality doesn't work that way. We want to know what is out there? We have to put aside our differences. Like I said before, those lifeforms that have ceased wars and such will have a much better chance of expanding into space (at least great distances). Give us a couple thousand years, we may get to that point. So I honestly think if we have been found by an alien race they are quarenteening us until we get past our bacterial stage.

[Ethric]

Using Occam's Razor as proof is pretty much a fallacy.

Yep. Good thing I didn't.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

But leave the "what is evolution" talk for the other thread, for this thread evolution on it's own is a given, as any other model makes life (or at least intelligent one) unique to Earth.

How so? The Bible for instance makes no reference as to whether or not GOd created life on other planets.

Given the vastness of the universeI think that it is highly likely that there is life on other planets.

GOW

[ThunderTitan]

The term "intelligent life" is hard to nail down. It's pretty damned arrogant to define 'intelligence' as the ability to communicate with us. And whatever behaviors we employ as the criteria for 'intelligence' are certain to be equally self centered and arbitrary.

Tehnological intelligence of any kind should do. Otherwise we should just stick to dolphins.

It is a scientific mystery how the Earth has managed to retain so much of its water, given the extreme heat that prevailed early on.

What?! You know how rain gets made?! Unless there's some method in which evaporated water can leave the atmosphere that shouldn't be a problem.

So is the Earth so unique that it is the only place intelligent life could have appeared? It is fallacious to reason than an infinite universe guarantees that all possibilities must be realized.

Not all posibilities, but all probabilities. If it happened once it's fallacious to think it can't happen again or it hasn't happened before.

My conclusion is that 'life' itself came from 'out there', but 'intelligence' as we know it emerged here. There may be other slants on intelligence elsewhere, but they may not be recognizable to us. However, sometimes I get depressed and think of Charles Fort's hypothesis: we are being fished for.

Well we are talking about intelligence as it is here, otherwise i could say bacterias are intelligent coz they're good at surviving.

How so? The Bible for instance makes no reference as to whether or not God created life on other planets.

The universe, then earth, then life then humans... after that he rested. No mention of going back to work somewhere else.

Yep. Good thing I didn't.

No one said you did.

[Veldrynus]

How so? The Bible for instance makes no reference as to whether or not GOd created life on other planets.
GOW

The Bible is actually proves the existence of aliens!

They are here, and they can even fly (most likely by using flying saucers) :

The alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. (Deuteronomy 28:43)

They have helped humanity in times of need.

together with your children and your wives, and the aliens living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water. (Deuteronomy 29:11
)

Their original diet was blood:

Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood. (Leviticus 17:12)"

They had sex with humans:

David said to the young man who brought him the report, "Where are you from?" "I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite," he answered. (2 Samuel 1:13)

[Ethric]

No one said you did.

Ah, so your comparison wasn't meant as anything but pointless spam then. Good to know

[theLuckyDragon]

Vel, you should be careful when quoting English translations of the Bible. "Alien" doesn't necessarily mean "non-terrestrial". From those contexts, it seems more likely to refer to non-Israelites.

The Romanian Bible uses "strangers" in all those contexts you gave. (I haven't found the Book of Samuel though , so I won't comment on that).

[Ethric]

Well you should be extremely careful in drawing any sort of conclusions from whatever the bible has to say on a matter such as this no matter what language it is in

[theLuckyDragon]

That too. IMO, no translation of the Bible can be fully trusted. Words have a way with being tricky...

[Veldrynus]

That too. IMO, no translation of the Bible can be fully trusted. Words have a way with being tricky...

Yep. That was my point too. I do realize that "alien" in that context means "foreigner".

[theLuckyDragon]

Then maybe I was hasty in interpreting your words

The Bible is actually proves the existence of aliens!

It might as well mean "strangers" here too...

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

How so? The Bible for instance makes no reference as to whether or not God created life on other planets.

The universe, then earth, then life then humans... after that he rested. No mention of going back to work somewhere else.

And there is no scripture that says that God was not doing the same thing on another planet at the same time either.

GOW

[Wildbear]

And there is no scripture that says that God was not doing the same thing on another planet at the same time either.

Right, he probably forgot to mention it when he dictated the books because he was too busy.

[Veldrynus]

I think, we're not the only, first and last creations of God. Everytime he screwed up, he decided to retry, and created a new star system somewhere else. Therefore the vast number of stars.

[winterfate]

I think, we're not the only, first and last creations of God. Everytime he screwed up, he decided to retry, and created a new star system somewhere else. Therefore the vast number of stars.

Well, that's a critical way to put it...


But, yeah, I agree...we CANNOT be the only beings existent in this universe.

For all we know, other races may not be carbon-based (part of the biology definition of life). For all we know, that rock next to you may be an alien lifeform.

It's a very fascinating subject.

[ThunderTitan]

For all we know, that rock next to you may be an alien lifeform.

Quick, keep it away from our womenfolk, don't want them impregnationg them with little rock babies.

Right, he probably forgot to mention it when he dictated the books because he was too busy.

Does it really say anywhere in the Bible that God dictated it all? As far as i remember only the 10 commandments were written by HIM. Everything else is hearsay, not admisible in court and all.

[Veldrynus]

Nope. All of the Bible is God's creation.