Necropolis Strategy

[ed dunk]

Thanks for the insight and discussion starter. We all benefit from this kind of discussion. It also takes guts to offer your analysis to this nitpicking group.

[Bandobras Took]

It also takes guts to offer your analysis to this nitpicking group.

Not necessarily; an overinflated ego will do just as well.

But I agree that civil disagreements about the nature of the town will prove fruitful in the long run.

[Sir Charles]

So from what I gather, you'd suggest a build something along the lines of this.....

Attack: Battle Frenzy, Archery, none (Tactics if left with no other choice)
Logistics: none (scouting or pathfinding if forced to choose)
Summoning Magic: Master of Life, Master of Conjuration, Haunted Mines
Dark Magic: Master of Curses, Master of Mind, Spirit Link
Enlightenment: Intelligence, none

this tells me 2 things, first is you're most likely a MP player. Secondly, you're not planning on developing your hero completely. Take Logistics for example. If you're only going to take it for the basic movement bonus and nothing else, why not shoot for a movement artifact instead of wasting 6 potential skill/ability slots for something you don't want to really develop? Wouldn't it make more sence to get Defense and a bonus of 30% less melee damage, 20% less ranged damage, 15% magic resistance, and +2 hit points for all your troops instead of just a 30% movement bonus? That one baffles me. And then there's Enlightenment. Again, it's a great skill, but why just go for intelligence and nothing else really? You talk about Dark Revelation for some reason and you say that going for that will block you from intelligence. So then...don't go for Dark Revelation. Instead, go for Intelligence, Scholar and Lord of the Undead. While scholar might be fairly useless (it's quite nice when you fail to get raise dead in your guild...then you can trade for it with Vladimir) but Lord of the Undead gives you another 10 spell points and another 5% bump to your prime skill...necromancy. In my mind, that's a no-brainer if you're going to take Enlightenment.

But of all the things you say, the one that I understand the least is your take on Sorcery. Being able to have your hero's turn come around 30% quicker, reducing the spell costs by 20%, regenerating mana twice as fast, and gaining access to level 3 spells is simply HUGE for a necromancer. Summoning magic is very nice, but what are you really getting out of it? Summon Elementals? You can get that via an artifact. Summon Phoenix? Yeah, I hate losing access to that as well. Boosting the effectiveness of raise dead? Heck, with the spell power you'll have even the basic raise dead will raise nearly everything you'll need. The rest is overkill. It's all just a matter of tastes I guess.

I've tried a necro with your setup (nearly) before and it does succeed. But I suggest you try mine as well. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how much more effective it is. Okay, enough long posts from the long-winded Genie. :O)

[bishop]

And what about a hero who casts Banshee Howl twice affective - minus 2 to morale and minus 20% to initiative?

[DaemianLucifer]

And what about a hero who casts Banshee Howl twice affective - minus 2 to morale and minus 20% to initiative?

I dont think it stacks.

[Gaidal Cain]

Banshee Howl: Not a weak skill.

Compared to most dark magic spells: yes, a weak skill. It's not bad early on when you're having trouble with spell points and wants to do something else than attack with your hero, but once I've got past that point, I'm not using it.

As for Logistics...sure, it's a great skill. But definitely NOT a high priority one for the Necromancer.

Logistics is a high-priority skill for everyone. 30% movement bonus is basically 30% more of everything- XP, resources, artifacts.

Raise Dead is a level 2 spell, so you can get this with NO magic skills at all. As for it’s potency, with the vast Spellpower you’ll get…potency with Raise Dead is rarely an issue.

I'd take a double-power Raise dead+Summon Phoenix with necro's spell power over defense 11 times out of 10.

Extra experience should NEVER be turned down.

IMHO opinion, the extra 15% at expert is not worth the slot. The extra skill points are, though.

Necro will, in general, have more resources than other towns (due to not having to purchase troops as often) so by the time purchasing level 7’s comes around…you’ll have the gold to spare most likely.

I'm not avare of the Necro having a Dwarven Treasury. One gold is one gold, no matter when you spend it.

If you're only going to take it for the basic movement bonus and nothing else, why not shoot for a movement artifact instead of wasting 6 potential skill/ability slots for something you don't want to really develop? Wouldn't it make more sence to get Defense and a bonus of 30% less melee damage, 20% less ranged damage, 15% magic resistance, and +2 hit points for all your troops instead of just a 30% movement bonus?

If I could get 6 skills/abilities in 3 level-ups, I would most likely as well. Most of the time, you're going to have to make choices about what not to take as well. Pathfinding and Death March are both very good, but only given the right map, and if it isn't the right map, I would go for other stuff first as well.

Leadership is worthless with an undead army, and I did cover Destruction Magic. Individual spells are kinda worthless to review, though, because they're all basically self-explanatory.

I do agree that leadership isn't worth much, but Diplomacy and Herald of Death do sound like a potentially useful build, even if it costs you four level-ups that aren't put to any use. Heck, only going for Diplomacy might seem to be a good choice depending on the map.

And the only place you talk about destructive magic is in your comment for Raven...

[Orfinn]

"And what about a hero who casts Banshee Howl twice affective - minus 2 to morale and minus 20% to initiative?"



nope that dosent work at all. you only penalize the enemy once with that ability.



A nice guide btw

[kingcomrade]

I talk about Destructive Magic right after Decay.



@Charles

I think the difference between us is that you try to capitalize on the Necromancer's strengths, while I try to make up for his deficiencies compared to the other heroes. I would usually prefer to have my natural bonuses + parity in the other skill zones. Just a difference in play style, I think.

[Gaidal Cain]

I talk about Destructive Magic right after Decay.

Oh, right. Looks like someone forgot to bold it it though.

[Mightor Magic]

Here's the skills I use for Necros: Attack, Defense, Dark and Logistics are always my top skill picks but I have to add a couple of remarks to Logistics: Death March is probably the most useful perk in the game as it makes the Hero-centric skill Logistics into one that general forces your flying units over Castle walls on their first move and with Vampires and Ghosts, that is better than good. Silent Stalker is a MP killer as it hides the number of skeletons you have.



Secondary skills depend on the Hero. Lucretia already has Sorcery so she would get that Kaspar with War Machines and Zoltan with Enlightenment. However, I tend to find Luck {and its opposite of Bad Luck} to be more useful for Units than can't get Morale bonuses. Doesn't Banshee Howl also lower Luck or was that changed?







Hero selection: Well, the best overall selection for me is Lucretia as she makes the Necro's best unit even better and plain Sorcery makes for a good open ended Hero. Orson is my second pick, not because of his specialty {yet 200+ Plague Zombies can do some damage if you use the right mix of Dark Magic} but because he starts with Vitality.



I don"t use Summoning Magic and that includes Raise Dead as I just don't see the need for it {Skeletons are a waste to raise and Vampires do it themselves so why bother?} so Vlad and Naadir are at the bottom on my list. Raven has a good Weakness spell that also lowers defense but since she also has Destructive magic {instead of starting with Master of Curses would make a lot more sense} she has some limitations. Deidre is average all the way, yet much worse than Orson as her special is not much better at level 20 than it is at level 5. Kasper would be great if he got three uses of First Aid Tent and unlimited uses of Plague Tent rather than 3 split between the two. So until the number of uses of First Aid Tent or Plague Tent go up, he's not much.



Zoltan: He starts by gaining more experience so he'll get more and higher levels of Necromancy sooner. He can stop Raise Dead and Resurrection {and the players who use that as strategy} after the first cast at higher levels and he's pretty good on heroes that specialize in single Destructive spells. I don't understand why he isn't a more popular Necromancer. Third on my list as Enlightenment is only a side skill in my mind, even if it is usefull.



Note: Don't confuse the best unit you purchase with that weak archer you get after killing living opponents. The only thing that makes skeleton archers work is that you get a lot of them.



Eventually.

[mmontgomery]

Here is my view of the best skill set for a Necromancer:



Necromancy: Skeleton Archers, Bashee Howl, Eternal Servatude



This is a good skill to raise quickly, along with Skeleton Archers. Defer Eternal Servatude and Bashee Howl and pick them only to avoid picking something that you really don't want.



Dark Magic: Master of Mind, Master of Curses -> Spirit Link



Mass Slow and Mass Confusion are more than enough reason to pick Dark Magic and Master of Mind. Master of Curses is also very useful, and Spirit Link helps to recover mana. Spirit Link can really be abused in an easy battle to fully recover all mana by allowing the linked stack to be pounded on, and using Raise Dead at the end.



Enlightenment: Intelligence, Scholar -> Lord of the Undead



Enlightenment is fine for the experience boost, but the people often miss the value of the attributes bonus. At level 20, your character gains an average of +1 Attack, +3 Defense, +4 Spellpower, and +2 Knowledge. Even if you did not get an experience bonus, these attributes increases would be worth 3 picks. At level 30, you get +5 more scattered around. Intellegence is often equivalent to gaining +4 or more knowledge, which is good for a character with low knowledge to start with. Scholar can be useful, but is really more of a stepping stone to Lord of the Undead's +5% Necromancy and +1 Knowledge.



Attack: Battle Frenzy, Archery, Tactics



Attack is mostly useful for enabling Battle Frenzy and Archery. If it were only the +15% melee attack, I would not bother. But Battle Frenzy increases average damage of Skeletal archers from 1.5 to 2.5, a 60% increase in damage. Archery adds another 20% cumulative, which increases average damage after Battle Frenzy to 3.0. This results in double damage from skeletal archers. Tactics seems only moderately useful for an army that primarily gets its power from range strikers; I would defer it.



Logistics: Pathfinding -> Death March -> Silent Stalker



Unline the other skills, Logistics does nothing for battles (other than Death March). But it more than makes up for it by speeding up the hero. This means he gets into more battles, gaining more experience, gets to more artifacts, gets to skill improvement locations, etc. If I can get done in 3 turns using Logictics/Pathfinding what would otherwise take 4 or more turns to do, I am way ahead! Always go for Death March -> Silent Stalker instead of Scouting. Silent Stalker is twice as good at scouting as Scouting, plus conceals your army details, which is very important when playing other people.



This leaves one skill slot for your favorite skill. I don't have a strong preference here, but I lean toward Summoning Magic.



Summoning Magic: Master of Life, Haunted Mines, Master of Conjuration



This double the effect of raise dead, and enables Phantom forces, summon elementals, and summon Phoenix. Phantom forces can be incredible when copying a stack of 500+ skeleton archers doing an average of 3 damage each with Battle Frenzy and Archery. Adding a Phoenix or some elementals is always useful.

Master of Life is not much to brag about (extra 120 HP on Raise Dead), but it is important in enabling Haunted Mines, which is a great ability for raising an army of hundreds of ghosts for free. Master of Conjuration is not worth much either; just skip it.



Other good choices are:



Defense -> Vitality, Evasion, Protection



30% less damage is always nice, and Vitality increasing skeletal archer hit points from 5 to 7 hit points is a 40% bonus! Evasion is nice for 20% reduction from ranged attacks, and Protection is OK for a 15% reduction from magic damage. But Defense in general seems to be to be less important due to the effectiveness of raise dead for the Necromancer (this is unique to the Necromancer), and the high defense level Necromancers have naturally. (If it were up to me, I would switch the Necromancer's attack and defense stats, since Necromancers can always raise dead, so they have less need for defense in my opinion).



Sorcery -> Magic Insight, Mana Regeneration, Arcane Training



30% faster cast rate is a great ability. Magic Insight I find mostly useful to learn Phantom Forces and Circle of Winter. The mana boost from Mana Regneration and Arcane Training is useful, but I usually find Spirit Link provides sufficient mana recovery.



Luck -> Resourcefulness, Soldier's Luck, Magic Resistance



+3 to luck is always handy as well, since your army will end up averaging 30% more damage. My problem with luck is that my tactical planning does not take into account luck, since it is unpredictable. So often I will be attacking a stack with just enough to kill it or almost kill it without luck, and the double damage from luck is wasted. Resourcefulness is very useful for gold and resources, since this translates to a larger army. Soldier's luck affects Ghosts/Spectres, making them avoid damage much more often. This may not seem like much, but combined with Haunted Mines, it can making Ghosts into a real nuisance as they block range strikers. 15% magic resistance is alway nice as well.

[mmontgomery]

It appears that attempting to edit my post did not succeed in actually changing my post, but instead double posting it. Could an administrator please remove the offending extra post! (And see what is going on with edit, please.)

[Fraudatio]

Against some opponent even light and defence can be chosen - I find that that is the beauty of the game; there is few skills that are a complete nogo - for me it is only war machines, leadership and destruvtion i never have used as necro.
Edited on Sun, Sep 03 2006, 01:37 by Fraudatio

[Sandro123]

My perfect necro hero would be:



1.Sorcery: allows you to curse the enemy much faster, ensuring you curse the enemy with everything you have. Buffs:

Magic insight: for spells like phamtom forces

Boneward: especially useful against warlocks and wizards

arcane training: it speaks for itself; necros don't have much knowledge.



2.Defense: except zombies, most of your units are quite fragile; defense provides them with a longer afterlife. Buffs:

Evasion: this enhances life of your ranged units

Protection: useful for ghosts and other low-levels

Vitality: ghosts and archers "live" a lot longer.



3.Attack Maximises damage output for weak units. Essential for skeleton archers. Buffs:

Archery: a no-brainer.

Battle frenzy: skeletons rule!!!

Tactics: slice the enemy with vamps on their first turn. quite useful against archers.



4.Luck an essential for practically every hero. Maxes damage output. Buffs:

Soldiers luck: worth only for ghosts(at least i think so)

Dead man's curse: although it actually requires something(banshee howl, you can get it always even at early game), it is useful against enemies with no luck bonuses at all.

Magic resistance: again a no-brainer.



5.Dark magic your main weapon as an undead hero are your curses, particularly because they last for the whole battle(mostly) and because no-one can use them against you. Buffs:

Master of Pain: Decay isn't very useful as a single-target spell, but granted area effect, it can really pack a punch.

Master of curses: mass effect is not to be overlooked.

Spirit link: since mass spells require twice the mana, it would be really useful to have spirit link.



6.1Enlightment +30% exp!!! why not? Buffs:

Scholar: merely a stepping stone towards...

Lord of the undead: +5% necromancy(!!!!!) and a tiny bit of knowledge. cool for mid game.

Intellegence or Dark Revelation: not much knowledge, provides quite a boost to spell points; good in combo with mass spells or if you would have 50000 exp till the next level...



6.2 Logistics only useful on larger maps and multiplayer. Buffs:

Pathfinding: though there aren't many maps without that much roads, one can never know...

Death March: in combo with tactics it means that dragons and vamps can go anywhere(at least during sieges).

Scouting or Silent Stalker: useful throughout the whole game and especially in multiplayer games or useful only for fooling the enemy human player in mid and end game.



6.3. Summoning magic school Useful only if you want to raise a few more hit points out of the dead or summoning a more powerful pheonix, but really NOT a must(though in h4 nature magic was a must for an undead... the good ol' days are long gone:) Buffs:

Master of life: since the undead are revived permanently, it is quite useful to buff up the RD spell(raise dead for the unenlightened)

Master of conjuration: a more powerful pheonix and (though you will summon them on extremely rare occasions) more elementals

Haunted mines: who doesn't want free ghosts?





Each of three #6 slots could be filled with any three of those. I would normally choose 6.1.



Necromancer=a lot of units=low hp=they die quite easily=the skills of a hero must protect his units.

or

Necromancer=skeleton archers+liches+vampires(my favourite unit). All you need is a legion of each of these and every map is yours!



If you need to choose a particular hero at the start, go with lucretia; she is the best of all necros for me since she not only buffs vampires, your main attack force, but also starts with sorcery.
Edited on Sun, Sep 10 2006, 05:26 by Sandro123

[Mr.Cold]

I'm trying a necro with this setup:



Defence : Protection : Vitality and Evasion



Attack : Battl Frenzy : Archery and tactics



Light : Wrath : blesings -> Twilight



Dark: Mind : Curses ->Spirit Link



and one open for either



Summoning(with the 3 basic)

or

Enlightment to Revalation thing

or

sorcery to Arcane Excellence



Twilight raises power of both dark and light spells



and doing mass slow, mass speed and mass righteous might is awesome :p

[Faiz]

Why didn't you compare leadership with the others? It is a petty good skill to have with a Necromancer. The morale bonus is great if you want to use units from other towns (like replace useless dragons with devils or such things). And Diplomacy + Herald Of Death is very good. The only time it is useless is if you are fighting against other Necro players. I would give Leadership a medium priority on the list.





And Vladimir is a joke. The spellpower of this spell is increased by 1 for every five levels of hero, starting on first level! Not every level! All Necromancers start with Raise dead, not only him. Lucretia is probably the best necromancer, sure she starts with half-decent sorcery, but she have the best specialty and can focus on other skills...

[aaelgr]

Could someone explain this 'Dark Energy' thing to me, does it depend on the Hero's level or something like their Spellpower?

[Grail Quest]

I'm about to start the Necromancer campaign, and I was wondering if anyone has tried a potential synergy with:



Mass Slow + Mass Haste + Banshee Howl + Howl of Terror



You'll be giving up Archery (which would be nice because you have 2 shooters), but a net Morale penalty of -7 is insurmountable unless your opponent has nice artifacts. A Haven hero comes closest with their free Benediction, but even then probably has a small net negative Morale. Mass Slow them, Mass Haste your own troops (especially the fast Skeleton Archers), and if the negative morale effects kick in against your enemy, theoretically you can dominate the initiative bar indefinitely.
Edited on Mon, Jul 30 2007, 10:55 by Grail Quest

[Grail Quest]

I'm in the early weeks of Necropolis mission 2, and so far, I must say that all this talk about hundreds of skeleton archers is absolute baloney.

What am I doing wrong? After a battle, I am offered skeletons about half the time, and of those times I am offered them, only about 1/3rd of the time am I allowed to choose Skeleton Archers, even though I have the Skeleton Archer skill.

The rest of the time, I get a mix of units, mostly zombies.

In mission 1, where they give you tons of free skeletons, I only got about 300 at most (before the big boost just before you encounter the final fight), and they were worthless all the way through. In fact, I ended up most of the time fielding only a stack of 32 Vampire Lords and topping up their numbers toward the end with Raise Dead.

How do I get these hundreds and hundreds of skeleton archers everyone's talking about??

[aaelgr]

The original Necromancy raised skeletons after every battle, and one of the Necromancy abilities you could choose was to raise Skeleton Archers instead (which was a little overpowering as you could have 100's of them in 2/3 weeks!). When they switched to the Dark Energy model (1.5 and 2.1 respectively I think) it was replaced by Mark of the Necromancer (though if you're going for Howl of Terror you only need Basic Dark Magic and Corrupted Soil now).