Ubi and Copy Protection

[Thelonious]

To spam? you of all people should understand that!

[ThunderTitan]

I don't think that SF would outright lie, but I would like to see the full article, not just the stuff that makes good PR for SF. I would like to know if it still runs in the background even when the game is not running, how much memory does it eat, and stuff like that.

[Kilfire]

BTW do you have a link for the original article by Mark Russinovich, coz the link to the SF forum doesn't seem to work. And neither does the official site.

http://www.sysinternals.com/forum/forum ... PN=1&TPN=1 (near the bottom of the page)
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I've taken a look at StarForce and other than some unorthodox ways of monitoring Cd-Rom traffic and intercepting the creation of all processes and threads, there's nothing overtly unstable about its implementation.

What I did find is that the uninstall for Silent Hunter III does not uninstall StarForce, something that's absolutely inexcusable. That's Ubisoft's responsibility, however, not StarForce's.
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Short, but just enough to confirm StarForce's press release.

[Vision]

Nice.

That should alleviate ALOT of peoples issues

[Kilfire]

"Words", said the White Rabbit, "can mean whatever I want them to mean"
But the use of one word for two meanings at once is doing my head in, so for this post, any time I mean to refer to the company, I'll say "StarForce(co)" or "SF(co)".

Well, after a lot of heat and noise over the last few months, at last we've got real details. I3thHouR explainsin this post (his 2nd post, just over halfway down, posted 2006-01-09 08:12, last edited 2006-01-09 09:21) just how an interaction between StarForce and Windows XP can cause degraded performance, and eventually cause a CD/DVD writer to trash itself. I reckon there's sufficient detail there to make an attempt to reproduce the effect. Not that there's any point now. I3thHouR also posted this Microsoft link. It appears that if you have XP Service Pack 2 installed then your PC will be immune to this problem. MS don't go into the details of the fix, so I can't be certain, however it would explain how SF(co) could offer that competition with such confidence.

For anyone whose CD/DVD drive has been physically trashed, this doesn't provide much hope of compensation. If it came to court, I think StarForce(co) could quite reasonably point the finger at the drive makers. Even modern DVD-RW drives should have drivers that can understand the ancient "PIO Mode", seeing as Windows XP (pre-SP2) had retained support for that mode into the new millennium.

[ThunderTitan]

Well, after a lot of heat and noise over the last few months, at last we've got real details. I3thHouR explainsin this post (his 2nd post, just over halfway down, posted 2006-01-09 08:12, last edited 2006-01-09 09:21) just how an interaction between StarForce and Windows XP can cause degraded performance, and eventually cause a CD/DVD writer to trash itself. I reckon there's sufficient detail there to make an attempt to reproduce the effect. Not that there's any point now. I3thHouR also posted this Microsoft link. It appears that if you have XP Service Pack 2 installed then your PC will be immune to this problem. MS don't go into the details of the fix, so I can't be certain, however it would explain how SF(co) could offer that competition with such confidence.

For anyone whose CD/DVD drive has been physically trashed, this doesn't provide much hope of compensation. If it came to court, I think StarForce(co) could quite reasonably point the finger at the drive makers. Even modern DVD-RW drives should have drivers that can understand the ancient "PIO Mode", seeing as Windows XP (pre-SP2) had retained support for that mode into the new millennium.

Well last time i had SP2 i had to format my comp because it wouldn't see DirectX 9c and because of that games that needed it wouldn't run (the funny thing is that I think it has just because the comp told them that i didn't have it, as I recall that there was a game that needed 9c that worked). I did hear that if you install SP2 after DX9c it does work, but i'm not eager to test it out.

And what kind of unorthodox methods does SF use? I mean he was pretty much saying that SF is not a virus/rootkit.

[Kilfire]

Well last time i had SP2 i had to format my comp because it wouldn't see DirectX 9c and because of that games that needed it wouldn't run (the funny thing is that I think it has just because the comp told them that i didn't have it, as I recall that there was a game that needed 9c that worked). I did hear that if you install SP2 after DX9c it does work, but i'm not eager to test it out.

I tried SP2 once, and XP wouldn't boot (thank goodness for System Restore!). And just to add to the confusion, there's a now a DX9d - or rather, they've stopped adding letters and called it the "December 2005 runtime".

And what kind of unorthodox methods does SF use?

No idea, sorry! Mark never said, and I don't know enough to understand him if he did

I mean he was pretty much saying that SF is not a virus/rootkit.

Yes, that's just about as much as he said.

[HodgePodge]

Thank you Kilfire, for the link and the information.

[ThunderTitan]

I tried SP2 once, and XP wouldn't boot (thank goodness for System Restore!). And just to add to the confusion, there's a now a DX9d - or rather, they've stopped adding letters and called it the "December 2005 runtime".

There's a 9d! News to me. Oh, and my first try with SP2 ended in a similar way. That time with DX 9c i don't even know how SP2 got on the computer, as me and my bro decided to only d/l hot fixes. Man, i really hate Win.



WOW, HodgePodge behaving in a SF thread! I'm impressed!

[Kilfire]

Thank you Kilfire, for the link and the information.

You're welcome

...I've just looked at the list of StarForce-infested games thru the link on your banner. It's enough to put you off PC gaming altogether

[Orfinn]

Thanks for the link!

Oh my that list was huge!

[ThunderTitan]

Thanks for the link!

Oh my that list was huge!

Most of the games on there weren't worth buying anyway!

[Orfinn]

Most of the games on there weren't worth buying anyway!

I know but anyway.....

[ThunderTitan]

Here's something new:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/her ... pid=927207

And SF say's it the beta's fault! Right.

[Orfinn]

Here's something new:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/her ... pid=927207

And SF say's it the beta's fault! Right.

Seriously that was a scary problemo, im glad he got help and fixed the problem.
Yet again I ask myself "Why in the planets name do Ubi &Nival allow this kind of doomware, what idiotic purposes do the guys have?, To drive gamers nuts with damaging software from a copy-protection club named StarForce that may as well have could been in a conspiracy cult, turning ordinary gamers into pirates, then ruin the gaming industry with piracy? They seriously screwing everything up for many companies including Ubi & Nival, still U&N listen to SF idotic explenations for using their nutty software.

Yesterday after seeing all those wonderful new info and screenies from H5 I got threlled, man I will buy this game, cant wait to get it! Now after reading this, I got very suspicious again. Yes I have the freedom to not to buy the game but its so tempting because im a born gamer and SF know this thats why they got born too for ruin gamers life. Its not that I dont have anything more useful to do but sometimes there are days i want some fun without worrying about som s.o.b-software screwing my gaming experience up and think bad about the producers & developers that made the game.

So if you Ubi and Nival want to ruin your gaming industry, so fine by me you deserve it thanks to your ignorance of our fans advices and warnings about this famous protection System named Star Force the mighty screw-up software.
Man talking about hurting themself But still going on just as unaware as nothing have happened

*Sigh* Whats the world coming to, and this is one example of billions including not only games.

[Bandobras Took]

So out of curiosity, are those of you suffering from frequent disconnects/crashes in the Beta also those with CD/DVD burners?

Would be kind of funny if StarForce were making multiplayer unplayable in the name of copy protection.

I only ask because people with perfectly acceptable systems seem to be suffering from frequent disconnects, and I haven't had a one. So I'm throwing out the possibility that StarForce may not be screwing up my sytem because there's nothing for it to interact with (no burning drives/software). Just a thought, and likely totally wrong, but wanted to mention it.

[Fallen Angel]

I have burning software and haven't had a single problem with SF. Other than the current version of the beta simply not being stable enough to maintain multiplayer games, it seems to me that a lot of the problems are caused mostly on systems that are just barely adequate. Remember, when game companies comment on a game's requirements they are only referring to the bare minimum, and that's when the game has been completely optimized.

Also, consider the possibility that the problem may be on the other end. Of course, no one's proven that Star Force isn't to blame yet, but I'm leaning toward low system specs and coding that hasn't been finalized.

[Kilfire]

Well here's trouble for StarForce. Amongst other things, the copy prevention is rumoured to work by detecting the angle between different data sectors on the CD. Instructions for how to control that angle on your own home CD burner will shortly become public knowledge:

http://www.instructables.com/ex/i/6227E ... /?ALLSTEPS

And if it doesn't help, at least the pictures are pretty

[HodgePodge]

http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/ ... .php?t=916

My thread on the official has been deleted. DELETED!

Starforce, undecent beta, fascist behavior....they surely know how to make marketing...

Learn from bethesda...they actually listed on their new game's features: "This game has NO starforce"...learn ubi, learn.....

You're not the only one, UbiSoft's Official Forum is now actively deleting & locking any and all threads discussing StarForce and its negative side-effects.

It has even banned people who have had first-hand knowledge and experiences of damaged computers caused by StarForce. Also any who dare to disclose the technical how & why of StarForce … or just anybody at all who says they don't want StarForce on their computer.

UbiSoft has gone way off the deep end concerning this issue. [/url]

[SirGalrim]

You're not the only one, UbiSoft's Official Forum is now actively deleting & locking any and all threads discussing StarForce and its negative side-effects.

Well I don't care much for spam or for "haters" who make up as much bullshit as they can, and claim it for truth without evidence to back it up. Therefore I wholeheartedly agree with the locking and banning on the official forum.

It has even banned people who have had first-hand knowledge and experiences of damaged computers caused by StarForce.

Yhea sure. And all of them passed on a oppertunity off getting 10000$ for free.

Also any who dare to disclose the technical how & why of StarForce … or just anybody at all who says they don't want StarForce on their computer.

Spamming that you don't want to play a game several times over should earn the user a break no matter what forum. Good work moderators. Altough in my opinion they are to kind. FC should stop answering stupid assucations he already have spent all to much time proven faulty. These people don't care about facts anyway. Concentrate on the game itself FC ,not these people who probably never will be a paying custommer anyway. And the mods should just lock up the threads about no;. Stop beating a dead horse people!

Okey I am generalizing. I am just tired and darn sick of haters.