Starting resources in HOMM V

[LashtonBryth]

I used to play 1v1 set to impossible mode against a group of people who took the game very seriously in HOMM 3. Impossible mode in that game started each player with zero of anything and forced you to build up slowly/intelligently determine which creatures to attack in order to get the supplies for whatever you were trying to do. Needless to say I was very disappointed to see that HOMM 5 has no means for setting starting resources and gold to 0. Does anyone know how to do this or if Ubisoft is planning on offering this in a patch?

[PhoenixReborn]

It should be pretty easy to do with the cheat codes or also with a mod. If you ask in the modcrafting forum someone can help you.

Also, I believe if you both have the same mods you can play online together.

[Alamar]

It may be hard to find many maps that will allow you to progress properly like this.

Most maps are made with the assumption that you'll buy one extra hero and will have some extra L1s built soon. You may need to reduce the number of guardian nuetrals on the maps to compensate.

[LashtonBryth]

It does slow you down a bit but puts you in a position to have to decide when to take a chance to fight over something as small as a few resources or gold. Anyone can win fights against level 2 creatures if you have enough starting resources to build up to level 4 without adventuring at all. Its when you have to find money and resources to even get your second level that each decision becomes valuable both in terms of time as well as productivity.

I'll have to figure out if someone has modded this or if online play allows some kind of cheat that will remove the resources.

[Jolly Joker]

Actually I think that the idea for a difficulty level to start with no resources or money at all has been a rather bad one:
For one, whether a map will be difficult or not is solely for the map maker to decide: If he guards every single thing on the map with heavy guards you'll just waste time saving your 500 gold income until you can buy something and conquer something. If on the other hand there are a couple of chests lying around and things are guarded not so heavily things proceed very qucikly.
Second, the luck factor for that critical first piles/chests becomes enormously important which is simply bad.

I've always thought, that for Heroes III I would have liked a difficulty level like the Very Hard one in Heroes II (5000 Gold + 5/5/2/2/2/2 res) would have been best with guarding stacks a bit tougher than those they had in III.

For V I consider it a good thing that you'll start with something to work with, but guarding stacks are actually offering some resistance. That way you can actually do something from day 1 on, but constantly forced to invest in troops as well - since you need them. In Heroes III you'd need a couple key creatures only, Marksmen, Grand Elves, you name them, and you could basically conquer every neutral stack. This is not so in Heroes V and it's a pleasant change.

[LashtonBryth]

Luck plays a small role in any Heroes game from who has the best artifacts closest to which spells you get in your mage guild. I personally think you seperate the good players from the great players when you subtract starting resources and force players to make tough decisions throughout the entire game. Other people are free to feel otherwise of course but it still doesn't change the fact that I would like to be able to try Heroes V with 0 resources and see if it plays ok. If not then I'll work my way up from there till a comfortable level of resources balances with what I personally feel should be the speed at which a town is built.

I posted this same thread in the mod creating forum but it was closed due to duplicate.

[DaemianLucifer]

Luck plays a small role in any Heroes game from who has the best artifacts closest to which spells you get in your mage guild.

In previous heroes maybe.In HV luck plays a really substantial role.Getting zombies instead of gremlins on that first mine,or getting a lucky role in a combat changes the outcomes significantly.

[Jolly Joker]

Luck plays a small role in any Heroes game from who has the best artifacts closest to which spells you get in your mage guild. I personally think you seperate the good players from the great players when you subtract starting resources and force players to make tough decisions throughout the entire game. Other people are free to feel otherwise of course but it still doesn't change the fact that I would like to be able to try Heroes V with 0 resources and see if it plays ok. If not then I'll work my way up from there till a comfortable level of resources balances with what I personally feel should be the speed at which a town is built.

I posted this same thread in the mod creating forum but it was closed due to duplicate.

I don't think that's true. If you don't have any money it's extremely important whether you'll get a chest with 1000 or 2000 gold or a pile with 500 or 1000 and so on. DECISIVELY important in the beginning.
If you start with a BIT of everything, the luck factor drops because you actually have something to plan with NOT depending on the map and the actual layout, guarding creatures and so on.

[LashtonBryth]

Luck plays a small role in any Heroes game from who has the best artifacts closest to which spells you get in your mage guild. I personally think you seperate the good players from the great players when you subtract starting resources and force players to make tough decisions throughout the entire game. Other people are free to feel otherwise of course but it still doesn't change the fact that I would like to be able to try Heroes V with 0 resources and see if it plays ok. If not then I'll work my way up from there till a comfortable level of resources balances with what I personally feel should be the speed at which a town is built.

I posted this same thread in the mod creating forum but it was closed due to duplicate.

I don't think that's true. If you don't have any money it's extremely important whether you'll get a chest with 1000 or 2000 gold or a pile with 500 or 1000 and so on. DECISIVELY important in the beginning.
If you start with a BIT of everything, the luck factor drops because you actually have something to plan with NOT depending on the map and the actual layout, guarding creatures and so on.

And I'd argue the exact opposite. If Player 1 starts with 0 resources and is lucky enough to find a 2000 gold chest, he has a 2000 head start if the other player has nothing to find. In the beginning of the game that's worth the upgrade to 1000 a day, nice but definitely not game changing.

Now take a game where Player 1 and 2 can build up quick enough to kill everything around them without much issue. Then the game itself is much more map dependant (i.e. what is around you) than if you had started with nothing since there are no challenges as to whether you can get them and in what order. If one player has better resources and artifacts near him, he has a definite advantage in the game with resources. Without them there is no guarantee he'll be able to build fast enough, no guarantee he'll be smart enough to know when to attack this or that stack in order to get the next town upgrade in the most efficient time, no guarantee he'll build his town properly in order to get what he needs most.

Again, you are free to disagree and can play with whatever resource settings you wish. I simply wish for someone to tell me how to adjust the resources, create a mod to adjust them, or if there is any talk of a future patch creating a multiplayer difficulty that starts each player with nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

[Gaidal Cain]

In previous heroes maybe.In HV luck plays a really substantial role.Getting zombies instead of gremlins on that first mine,or getting a lucky role in a combat changes the outcomes significantly.

No difference there either- mages and golems or just golems? Cyclops or Ogre mages? Genies or Nagas? Grand Elves or stone golems? Marksmen or dwarves? There's always been huge difference between how difficult different creatures have been,

[DaemianLucifer]

True,but the initiative system and spell changes turned these into even bigger difference.Oh,and lets not forget the difference between fighting 30 druids in on and in 3 stacks.

[Sir_Toejam]

I'll have to figure out if someone has modded this or if online play allows some kind of cheat that will remove the resources.

both.

starting resource values can be modded in the defaultstats.xdb file, AND you can use the following code in the console to control your resources:

@SetPlayerResource(player #, res. #, amount #);

where player # is the number of the player you wish to change resources for, and where resources are numbered 0-6:

0 wood
1 ore
...
6 gold

example:

@SetPlayerResource(1, 0, 30);

would set player 1's wood resources to 30.

the value is a "set" value, not additive, so it will appear as whatever number you type there.

so use "0" instead of "30" to set wood resources to 0.

I don't know why angelspit closed your mod request, other than mistaking it as another discussion type thread, but there IS another thread discussing modding starting resources in the modcrafting guild:

viewtopic.php?t=5046

Again, you are free to disagree and can play with whatever resource settings you wish.

yes, JJ often gets confused about the difference between what he thinks "should" be for the game as a whole, and what any player wants for themselves.

[Jolly Joker]

yes, JJ often gets confused about the difference between what he thinks "should" be for the game as a whole, and what any player wants for themselves.

You are overstretching; I just don't share his opinion about the skills needed when playing with no money and resources at all against some. He can play whatever way he wants. However, if he combines it with a theory or an opinion I'm allowed to add my thoughts, whether you like that or not.

[Sir_Toejam]

[Jolly Joker]

Disagree as much as you like.
This was in the initial post:
"Impossible mode in that game started each player with zero of anything and forced you to build up slowly/intelligently determine which creatures to attack in order to get the supplies for whatever you were trying to do."
This is what I disagree with. Having zero of anything means you are totally dependent on the grace of the map maker and sheer luck.
I didn't argue against him wanting a mod or something for that.

[ThunderTitan]

And this is why a Custom Dif Lvl would be so usefull... we'd all get what we want.

[Sir_Toejam]

JJ, my, and the author's point was:

Does anyone know how to do this or if Ubisoft is planning on offering this in a patch?

and even reiterrated here:

I simply wish for someone to tell me how to adjust the resources, create a mod to adjust them, or if there is any talk of a future patch creating a multiplayer difficulty that starts each player with nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

not ANYTHING along the lines of what you volunteered.

get it?

[val-gaav]

I share JJ opininon.

I play on normal in h5 ... and in h3 I played on 120% ( all against human not AI )

Anyway having resources on start in h5 still leaves planing you must get mines in 1 week or 2nd ....
H5 needs a lot resources on creatures buildings ... A lot more then h3 needed starting with zero would just made the games to last longer ...

I played on impossible in h3 and it's ridiculous and boring ... it only makes the game longer, and favours some of the towns ...

..........
on point about luck h5 is less luck dependant in some ways then h3 was ... It does not have a game breaking spells (DD Fly TP) ... H5 has nerfed TP but it's available for everybody in every castle (same for other adventure spells)

Furtermore artifacts in h5 are less powerfull then in h3 so once again there is no luck in one players got the +12 to attack thing while the other one has sandal of saint ...

on point of fights genraly it's harder to fight neutral stacks in h5 ... though each castle has some tricks for every neurtral creature ...

In h3 it was much the same ... Stronghold was nice for fighting fast creatures even archers but low on hp ... while rampart was good for slow tanks and not so good on fast units and archers.
So while rampart would have no problem with denrdroid soldiers , it wuod be a bigger problem for stronghold etc etc ...

[DaemianLucifer]

on point about luck h5 is less luck dependant in some ways then h3 was ... It does not have a game breaking spells (DD Fly TP) ... H5 has nerfed TP but it's available for everybody in every castle (same for other adventure spells)

Yes,summon phoenix,phantom forces,raise dead(well at least this one got nerfed),are not overpowered at all.

on point of fights genraly it's harder to fight neutral stacks in h5 ... though each castle has some tricks for every neurtral creature ...

Depends on the fights.Fighting zombies,treants,giants and the like is a cake walk,while fighting pixies,mages,druids and other casters is always a nightmare.No matter what faction you play.

[val-gaav]

Yes,summon phoenix,phantom forces,raise dead(well at least this one got nerfed),are not overpowered at all.

well what is so good about pheonix ? I mean, it's great for fight against neutrals and allows a mage with it to visit utopia without loses , but in the final fight it is not so great ....
No good player will ever attack pheonix , he will rather focus on normal troops ... and when those are dead ... .well the pheonix unsummons and fight is over ....

Though I agree that nerfing the raise dead was a good move ... it's still a great spell as it is now...
I do not see imbalancing about phantom forces ... It also was nerfed ... and now is just fine.

Depends on the fights.Fighting zombies,treants,giants and the like is a cake walk,while fighting pixies,mages,druids and other casters is always a nightmare.No matter what faction you play.

Nope you are wrong ... what's so hard about necro vs pixies ? druids ? just give me some thanes and some nice runes ... Academy can also deal with them nicely with gargoyles .

and generaly with animate dead there are actually almost no neutrals that make a problem for necropolis. Just a strenght of the faction it gets no loses in fights with neutrals , but generally it units are worse then other faction units.