Lightning bolt vs eldritch arrow

[Metathron]

Kwik kwestion:

Why does the first do less damage than the second, when it's the higher level spell??

[Elvin]

It's up to spellpower and destructive mastery.WIth higher spellpower and mastery it becomes a lot stronger.Likewise with lower spellpower icebolt comes on top of lightning.

[Metathron]

I'm all for spells becoming stronger with mastery and/or hero level ups. But an arrow stronger than a lightning bolt? And I spend less mana to cast the first one? I built the second level mage guild in order to get a stronger destructive magic spell - the way things are, why would I possibly want the lightning bolt?

[Mytical]

Well I don't know how you got this, but my lightning bolts always did more damage. Through in Mastery of Storm and it is even better (though Chain Lightning just rules with this). I've never seen an eldritch arrow able to pack the punch of a LB, with or without MoS. However, it maybe the case in some instances (regardless of actual damage). Some creatures are resistant to LB, while very few are to EA.

[Metathron]

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I have no mastery whatsoever, not even the destructive magic school. But despite that, I fail to see why a level 1 spell should do more damage than the level 2 spell, when it should clearly be the other way around.

[Mytical]

Weird, even without the skill mine never has. I honestly can not tell you why this is.

[Jolly Joker]

Eldritch Arrow is simply a useful Destructive spell in the beginning and no matter the spell power or level of magic because this is the formula.
48 + 8*Power (no Destructive)
56 + 8*P (Basic)
64 + 8*P (Advanced)
72 + 8*P (Expert)

ICE Bolt is basically the same, only better (the better version)
60 + 12*P
.
.
96 + 12*P
This means, Ice Bolt will always be better than Eldritch Arrow.

LIGHTNING Bolt however is this:
11 + 11*P
14 + 14*P
17 + 17*P
20 + 20*P

That means, a Necromancer WITHOUT Destructive Magic and Power 12 will do 144 with the Arrow, 204 with Ice and 143 with Lightning.

A Warlock with expert Destructive and Power 12 will do 168 with the Arrow, 240 with the Ice Bolt and 260 with Lightning.

[DaemianLucifer]

This has been done(probably)to make lower level spells more usefull.Thus more might oriented characters and beginer casters would prefer using lower level spells not just because of lower mana cost,but because of better damage as well.And if you want some logical explanation,how about:Its far easier to conjure eldritch arrow than lightning bolt,thus casters with less skill can do a better job casting the first one than the second one.

[Metathron]

Thanks for the clarification, but it makes little sense.

So a hero looking to cast some level 2 destructive spells can only hope he doesn't get the stinker that is lightning bolt, but ice bolt instead. I was playing a map with academy on heroic difficulty, and building a mage guild 2 was basically money down the drain.

Lightning bolt is basically useful only with a hero who possesses destructive magic, and by the time I'm proficient with this magic, I think I'm gonna want to cast more useful spells than lightning bolt.

[DaemianLucifer]

For the making sense part,I gave the explanation above

[Sir_Toejam]

for the pragmatic part...

can you imagine neutral druid stacks with an even MORE powerful lightning bolt attack?

[Metathron]

Why should druids have anything to do with this? Isn't their damage calculation different (but just as illogical)?

[Alamar]

I don't mind lightning bolt too much as is. It would be nice if the base damage of the other spells [esp a L1 spell] were much lower so that once you got past SP 6 or 7 then lightning bolt should be the clear winner overall.

[myythryyn]

i agree with metrathron and alamar, a lvl one spell should do less base unskilled damage than a lvl 2 base unskilled damage.

they should instead use the same kind of formula where lightning bolt does greater maximum damage with skills than eldritch arrow, but the base beginning damage of lighting bolt should be more than eldritch arrow.

that would make alot more sense.
a lvl one spell should never do more damage than a lvl 2 spell, at a less mana cost.

[soupnazii]

this is one of those rare times when i actually agree with DL (assuming i understood him correctly). it makes perfect sense, even though it might be tweaked a little. a lower level caster should be able to cast an easier spell more efficiently than a complex spell, but a powerful caster would be able to cast both spells at top efficiency, thus the higher level one wins. just restating what DL said before.

[Jolly Joker]

Why should druids have anything to do with this? Isn't their damage calculation different (but just as illogical)?

No, actually it's the same. They cast Lightning Bolt with Basic proficiency, and the number of Druids is used to determine the spell power with which the Druids cast the spell (this is done in a logarithmic way, so that in the beginning each Druid adds 1 point of spell power, but later on it gets less).

[tb5841]

So a hero looking to cast some level 2 destructive spells can only hope he doesn't get the stinker that is lightning bolt, but ice bolt instead. I was playing a map with academy on heroic difficulty, and building a mage guild 2 was basically money down the drain.

Getting destructive magic with academy still works excellently, and would make lightning bolt very effective. And there are lots of other excellent L2 spells from other schools - summoning magic + wasp swarm + motw is an excellent creeping combination.

[okrane]

Is there a point to this thread... ?
I mean as I see it, it is like it is... nothing we can do about it... so adapt you strategy to the game
(or go play another game )

[ThunderTitan]

Such a defeatist attitude okrane...

We can certainly send death threats, those always worked.

[PhoenixReborn]

Sir_Toejam got it right.

Everyone and their mother complains oh my god Druids are too strong. Give me Lizard raiders please, anything but druids guarding my mine.

Nival nerfs lightning bolt (but allows it to become stronger with higher spellpower) and all of a sudden it's oh my god "lightning sucks" instead of lightning becomes stronger as your hero gets more powerful but druids can't hurt as much.