Holy crap-You MUST see this! (academy strat)

[raistlinz]

Necro doesnt have to pay for mini artifacts and for mage guild,so it can put all those resources in town development.As for the phoenix and implosion,what if you get neither?
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Well, if necro want to beat academy they must build mage guild, if not, what's the point of expert dark magic? Curse is one of necro's superiority so the mage guild should be seriously considered.

If no phoenix and implosion, there will be other ways to fight. Academy don't live on phoenix and implosion, but the combination of magics, destructive/summon/dark, there are lots of options.

[okrane]

Wow... I woke up a little late today and I seem to have missed all the fun

First of all when playing academy I always take 3 magic schools, even if I usually went for Light dark and summon. I believe that this strategy can work. But still it would have to be tested out.

Secondly I don't agree to the fact that there were imposed conditions. I mean: hey... this is the game... the rules of the game were implemented by the devs... (if you don't like it play another game ). So my point is I'd like to see the results of a game with absolutely NO rules. I think this is the only relevant test.

I guess I'll try out the fast creeping as you said... It would be interesting if we'd saw some of your fast creeping strategies with all the towns... to actually see the reason why academy advances so much faster than the others...

[DaemianLucifer]

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Well, if necro want to beat academy they must build mage guild, if not, what's the point of expert dark magic? Curse is one of necro's superiority so the mage guild should be seriously considered.

Not against academy that can boost MR of all its creatures.Getting logistics,archery,frenzy and protection is priority here.Sorcery and master of life helps a lot too.Btw,how does banish fair against phoenixes?I didnt try it,but my guess is that it would do wonders.

[raistlinz]

Not against academy that can boost MR of all its creatures.Getting logistics,archery,frenzy and protection is priority here.Sorcery and master of life helps a lot too.Btw,how does banish fair against phoenixes?I didnt try it,but my guess is that it would do wonders.

All you list is good and crucial skills for necro, but you still don't know what magic academy can have. If I have dark I can curse, summon I can do Phantom Forces combine with motw, or Rakshasa Raja with Arcane Armor, also I can use Lightning Bolt /Chain Lightning with master of lighting or ice bolt/Circle of Winter with master of ice. Like I said, there are lots of option.

About the banish fair, I'm sorry I don't know either because I never get a chance to try.

[86wyp]

For necros (not much starting magic) you pretty much have to have a hero with skellies as special to rush. Raise dead helps if you have the spell (if not it will be at least day 3).

We have tried a few heroes, up to now the best hero we think is Naadir because he(or she?)can get high level magic easily(which is vital for necro army without many archers) and soulhunter is excellent both in leveling and in the big fight)

One big problem for Necroplois in a game of rush is that it won't make enough archers, and heros won't get enough time to fully accomplish their skill trees, normally only 3 or 4 skills including Necromancy can be fully developed. So the opinion on our forum is that it might be better to focus on magic skills than on attack/defense. In the first few weeks,a couple of cursing spells would be better than defense skill and a phoenix would be better than attack skill. Thus the prefered skills are dark, summoning and sorcery.

Haven suffers because it is their level 2, not their level 1's that need upgraded (though only a little mind). Archer special or training special would be the best here.

One of our players managed an army of 281 marksman and lots squires in third week with only one haven town. The only problem is that the hero have to learn light magic and have enough mana to counter magics.

Inferno has a tough time because no shooters for a bit (but if you get somebody with a succubi special you are gold ). Gating helps tremediously however.

Deleb would be horrible in the first week.

Dungeon do to low spellpoints, even if more spellpower. They also have a 1st level shooter, but it suffers extra range penalty (makes up for it with posion but undead is their bane).

Now the faction that has the most problems maybe Dungeon, there is no time for them to get enough mana and high level destructive magic like meteor shower cost too many mana points! In a rush game low level creatures are very important but low level creatures in Dungeon are week in the big battles considering their low growth rate. Also it's impossible to fully accomplish destructive, sorcery, enlightment, luck and IM in a rush game, other skills are automatically abandoned.

Sylvan really is hampered. Sprites are good and all but they die easy. However many wasp swarms can't hurt. Once they get hunters and druids (which might take a bit) though, they will rip through neutrals like nothing. Hope for somebody with a hunter or druid special.

Maybe the split sprite wasp swarm tactic would be the best counter for this tactic (ugrade those pixies?). Since they can hit from far (a couple of times) and no retal, just might work. Avoid undead though .

Not much to say about Sylvan(I seldom played it ) but others on our forum said in early game Sylvan is slow, and they are beging for light magic too.

[Pitsu]

I could imagine that teleport assault or even simple teleport would be quite dangerous counter to MMR wizards. To win a battle one needs to have real HP left. As long as there is hope to finish wizard real troops before he finishes yours, one could ignore the phoenixes and curses he summons. And since ranged stacks can be blocked or confused a high HP melee stack with teleport spell could be more efficient...

[okrane]

One big problem for Necroplois in a game of rush

why game of rush... that I don't understand... I agree with your strategy, and I say it can work... did not test it yet but I will...

but why rush... I mean, maybe you are stronger than your oponent in week 5 but maybe 3 weeks later he will make up for this... why make him fight you now? If you want ro rush him, do it but don't impose any rules...

I would like to see a game with absolutely no rules in it... that would fully convince me of what you are trying to proove

[86wyp]

One big problem for Necroplois in a game of rush

why game of rush... that I don't understand... I agree with your strategy, and I say it can work... did not test it yet but I will...

but why rush... I mean, maybe you are stronger than your oponent in week 5 but maybe 3 weeks later he will make up for this... why make him fight you now? If you want ro rush him, do it but don't impose any rules...

I would like to see a game with absolutely no rules in it... that would fully convince me of what you are trying to proove

I didn't make that rule, someone else did that because they wanted to encourage offensive moves.

Actually we will have new game based on different rules(maybe no rules) in the furture.

[okrane]

ok... I'm looking forward to the comclusions of that game

[Jolly Joker]

Necro needs destructive for bannish, so it's out.
As I said, Use Naadir, starting with Dark and Summoning, getting Haunt Mines fast. Concentrate on Magic and go for the guilds BUT you need Offense and Frenzy because those two will simply boost your damage output a lot. As I said, I'd go for Offense and Defense plus Basic Enligtenment (no further Enlightenment skill necessary except maybe Intelligence). Sorcery is well and good, but Frenzy plus Archery is better. Moreover you need to guard against Phantoms and Cold Steel si pretty good at that.

[DaemianLucifer]

Necro needs destructive for bannish, so it's out.

Oh yeah,I forgot about that one.

As for rushing,necro is excelent for this because hes not tied to the town like the rest.And you can flag cruical mines on your way.If you get logistics,you can even force your enemy to either go back to its main town to reinforce while you take his mines,or take his town while hes away.You need to criple him only for a day or two in order to gain the advantage.True,rushing may not max your skills,but you can do that later when you make a foothold in your enemies land.

[86wyp]

Necro needs destructive for bannish, so it's out.
As I said, Use Naadir, starting with Dark and Summoning, getting Haunt Mines fast. Concentrate on Magic and go for the guilds BUT you need Offense and Frenzy because those two will simply boost your damage output a lot. As I said, I'd go for Offense and Defense plus Basic Enligtenment (no further Enlightenment skill necessary except maybe Intelligence). Sorcery is well and good, but Frenzy plus Archery is better. Moreover you need to guard against Phantoms and Cold Steel si pretty good at that.

I think dark+summoning+attack/defense make sense. I have translated that and maybe some players will use that combo in the furture. For other skills, you know you won't have enough time do learn all of them. However, Necropolis lacks mana in early games that arcane training and mana regeneration can help a lot, so if sorcery appears early i wil still get it.

[Jolly Joker]

No, Logistics suck - paradoxically - in a rush game like that. No helpful abilities and you'd have to sacrifice another one.
The skill you really need with everyone else except Necro (2% probability only to get) is Luck, of course.

[DaemianLucifer]

However, Necropolis lacks mana in early games that arcane training and mana regeneration can help a lot, so if sorcery appears early i wil still get it.

Carefully managed mark of the necromancer is far better in that case.

[Mytical]

Well I am missing something hehe. I played with the sorcery specialist, got mark of the wizard first thing (because only attack, advance artificer, mark and consume artifact was offered). Maybe it was because I was playing HoF version but my poor little mage was getting hammered by bears . And this was on hard (not heroic). Was running out of mana to keep my frail critters alive . Oh and Havez could not go the route you suggested do to War Machines. May have to forgo a spell school (any suggestions) if I want to play him. I split my gremlins (to help cut down on casualties). I could take most stacks (even marksmen) relitively easy, but bears/plague zombies tore me up. Didn't even want to attempt the horde of crossbow men... mark of wizard is a must (as soon as humanly possible) to have a chance. .

[86wyp]

However, Necropolis lacks mana in early games that arcane training and mana regeneration can help a lot, so if sorcery appears early i wil still get it.

Carefully managed mark of the necromancer is far better in that case.

　

Yes, but sometimes master of curses never appear

Well I am missing something hehe. I played with the sorcery specialist, got mark of the wizard first thing (because only attack, advance artificer, mark and consume artifact was offered). Maybe it was because I was playing HoF version but my poor little mage was getting hammered by bears . And this was on hard (not heroic). Was running out of mana to keep my frail critters alive . Oh and Havez could not go the route you suggested do to War Machines. May have to forgo a spell school (any suggestions) if I want to play him. I split my gremlins (to help cut down on casualties). I could take most stacks (even marksmen) relitively easy, but bears/plague zombies tore me up. Didn't even want to attempt the horde of crossbow men... mark of wizard is a must (as soon as humanly possible) to have a chance. .

eh.. yes motw is a must have. To counter bears normally you will need fire trap or swarm, otherwise, just use gremlins to block them from your main stack, and then fire with hero, and god bless you. And, you can see my post on Aoh what nur did with just motw and arrows, however I am not that player oh nur also got a ballista. I don't think havez is the best hero for MMR, try nur if you have mana issue, nur has endless mana even in the first week. zombies are easy, use gargoyles to lead them away from gremlins. Oh, and go to heroic plz

[raistlinz]

Well I am missing something hehe. I played with the sorcery specialist, got mark of the wizard first thing (because only attack, advance artificer, mark and consume artifact was offered). Maybe it was because I was playing HoF version but my poor little mage was getting hammered by bears . And this was on hard (not heroic). Was running out of mana to keep my frail critters alive . Oh and Havez could not go the route you suggested do to War Machines. May have to forgo a spell school (any suggestions) if I want to play him. I split my gremlins (to help cut down on casualties). I could take most stacks (even marksmen) relitively easy, but bears/plague zombies tore me up. Didn't even want to attempt the horde of crossbow men... mark of wizard is a must (as soon as humanly possible) to have a chance. .

I don't know the map you've played, if I use havez, first thing I do is enhance your war machines(ballista/first aid), with these 2 skills you can rush most of the creatures(bears/plague zombies is walking exp to me). And you don't mention the use of Gargoyle. Trust me it's a really good army, really helpful to protect gremlins and block the shooters. Without motw you can still use him really well.

[tb5841]

The Haven/marksmen strategy has been mentioned a lot here, but no academy players have mentioned supress light... Makes mass cleansing cost 40 mana, not sure what magic immunity would cost, but I doubt a knight could use it more than once.

Supress light + dark magic could be lots of fun with academy's high knowledge.

[Gaidal Cain]

Well, if necro want to beat academy they must build mage guild, if not, what's the point of expert dark magic? Curse is one of necro's superiority so the mage guild should be seriously considered.

Not against academy that can boost MR of all its creatures.Getting logistics,archery,frenzy and protection is priority here.Sorcery and master of life helps a lot too.Btw,how does banish fair against phoenixes?I didnt try it,but my guess is that it would do wonders.

Except that the bonus from the mini-artifacts only affects damage spells, so they're useless against Dark.

(Damn. I'm gone for a day and a 10-page MoaT appears here...)

[DaemianLucifer]

The Haven/marksmen strategy has been mentioned a lot here, but no academy players have mentioned supress light... Makes mass cleansing cost 40 mana, not sure what magic immunity would cost, but I doubt a knight could use it more than once.

Supress light + dark magic could be lots of fun with academy's high knowledge.

Yes,but as far as I understand this is fighting multiple opponents.You cannot specilize in routing out just one of them.