Builds?

[the_critical_process]

What are the standard power builds for a warrior-type hero and for a caster-type? I haven't played this game much, and I'd like a vet's view on things, if someone would lay it out for me. Thanks in advance.

[the_critical_process]

(I read some old posts about how the game offers its three choices per level. With that in mind especially, how do you build/in what order, for the two basic hero types.) (Are there other "basic types"?) Thanks.

[grumpy_dwarf]

Assuming you are talking H IV, the Lord's and Knights need to build the combat skills up first. In fact an arguement can be made to build combat to GM before anything else dependent upon scenario or campaign and what the hero mix is....

[the_critical_process]

Yes, sorry, 4, and how about casters?

[Psychobabble]

Combat is essential for pretty much all heroes. Get GM combat for all heroes quickly. After/while you're doing that, pick one other skill that you want the hero to get GM in (this will obviously depend the type of hero you have - get tactics with a knight, get order magic with a mage etc.). Once you've got high enough in that skill and its secondary skill (ignoring useless sec skills like seamanship, charm and diplomacy) then pick another skill to (grand)master... if your hero is primarily a magic user pick a passive skill (eg. pathfinding, tactics, nobility) or another magic school and if it's a passive skill user then pick melee/archery.

Don't try to spread your skills around too much until you get to very high levels, it's best to focus on a couple.

And don't worry about the hero "classes" which come with combinations of skills, they don't have enough power to worry about. Usually you'll end up with whatever the combat + hero skill is (eg. beastmaster for druids, paladin for knights, ranger for archers, assassin for necromancers...and this last one is even useful!).

[Corribus]

Combat is essential for pretty much all heroes.

And don't worry about the hero "classes" which come with combinations of skills, they don't have enough power to worry about.

As much as I liked the H4 skill/class system, these are pretty much the two things that ultimately killed it. I do hope they bring this back in future versions of the game and that they fix those two problems.

[the_critical_process]

But I understand if you take combat early on as a caster the game will force you into all the combat secondary skills by not offering much of anything else. Is that right?

[Corribus]

But I understand if you take combat early on as a caster the game will force you into all the combat secondary skills by not offering much of anything else. Is that right?

It certainly seems that way sometimes.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I too go quickly for GM combat for combat heroes. But for spellcasters I GM their magic first and often never GM their combat at all, chosing instead another useful skill. In fact I sometimes neglect combat entirely for spellcasters until I reach expert in their magic.

You are going to want tactics for creature boosts and scouting to move more quickly around the map too, but those ususally need to come after your primary skills or on secondary heroes.

GOW

[Psychobabble]

But I understand if you take combat early on as a caster the game will force you into all the combat secondary skills by not offering much of anything else. Is that right?

Yeah, once you get an advanced class (ie take 2 combat) your %age chance of getting combat skills increase and so other skills are correspongingly less likely.

I too go quickly for GM combat for combat heroes. But for spellcasters I GM their magic first and often never GM their combat at all, chosing instead another useful skill. In fact I sometimes neglect combat entirely for spellcasters until I reach expert in their magic.

Yeah, this does depend on map size, but I do this too. Depends on the cirunstnace. for me, though, I always get GM combat on my spellcasters at the very latest after getting one GM magic skill. And there's also some special cases, like necromancers where you'll go all out to get GM necromancy before anything else.

[SmokingBarrel]

Don't try to spread your skills around too much until you get to very high levels, it's best to focus on a couple.

Yeah. best to focus on a few, but for me, I'm always up to mischief and take whatever altars I can see. For me, you should at least get a little bit of the altars(of course take a skill which you might need later of you want) cause there was this time when I fought Vulcanic and the basic death magic saved me by offering cancellation. All level 1 spells are't that worthless...until later...

I rarely get combat for my casters because all the classes I like getting don't include combat, like nature with combat, order with combat, chaos with combat...like others more, so I get combat really late in the game. If I have to showdown I'll do my best to protect the caster.

[Banedon]

My personal preference nowadays is to master magic - any magic - without heed to anything else, compensating for the lack of Combat with Song of Peace, sacrificial units and Potions of Immortality. Works quite fine for me.

[csarmi]

Easy. You pick a hero type and take only the skills required for his GM level until you reach that. After that, you build up combat skills (only bother with combat and resistance obviously) and take some auxiliary magic.

Don't bother with 4th skills (diplomacy, resurrection, summoning, stealth) - they will slow your developement down by a lot and getting GM magic 3 days later can be the differnce between losing and winning. A hero should absolutely focus on one area - first GM skills are too good to be delayed and dual developement slows you down; second, you will be using only one skill tree per combat round anyways. You should have as many heroes as possible, all of them GM in what they are good for - the more heroes the better for two reasons: XP scaling and more hero actions per combat.

What you always need is a tactician (hero with GM offense, defense at least) - they boost troops more than you'd ever think, a pathfinder (hero with GM pathfinding) - 50% more movement, spellcasters (that's usually determined by your starting town, GM in some magic, then combat); maybe a combat hero (combat, melee, resistance in that order).

One more thing you should keep in your mind: it's not effective to mix troops from 3 town types (big morale penalties and morale is the backbone of this game, much more so than in h3), that also means that for example if you are nature, in the beginning you have to decide whether you want nature+life troops (and heroes!!) or nature+chaos. Once you picked from one, forget the other (unless in special cases). Alignments can't be changed and while troop morale can be raised by tactics (leadership, artifacts), hero morale is much harder to change (and morale artifacts are rare).

What I described up there is the optimal way of playing. But!.
Against the AI you don't need to play good at all. You'd better experiment with lots of things, learn to fight effectively, learn to keep your heroes alive, etc. Get your own experience. Until you get good fighting skills, focus on combat skills some more, you'll needd it. Once you feel you are good, come back, read this post again and adjust your playstyle accordingly. You can learn a lot from the campaigns btw, or from user-made maps (don't touch maps that come with the game at all, you've been warned! - the game was rushed and the maps all sux).

One more general advice. Your low level troops are dispensable. They are only there to die for your heroes.

[Gaidal Cain]

In addition to what csarmi said: if you find map sites that hands out skills, give some magic skills to your might heroes, and give combat to your might ones. This allows you to put Libraries and Guilds(name?)- the sites that gives 1 level in a magic or might skill- with all your heroes without slowing them down. Magic heroes can be given basic level of a magic skill as well, but nothing more.

[Corribus]

One more general advice. Your low level troops are dispensable. They are only there to die for your heroes.

Ah, csarmi you think like a true general.

[gravyluvr]

the_critical_process

csarmi's ideas are generally accepted as terrific strategies so I'll just comment and add a few things...

Don't bother with 4th skills (diplomacy, resurrection, summoning, stealth)

Since thief starts with Stealth - you will have to have the basic level of that skill, but you should take Pathfinding and scouting (in that order) before upgrading stealth if that hero is going to be your army's pathfinder.

more heroes the better for two reasons: XP scaling and more hero actions per combat.

I would also add that additional heroes will save creatures and allow you to take advantage of carrying the "best" creatures and develop various skill trees without sacraficing splitting skills. "Best" can change depending on the situation and numbers available, but typically they are the highest level creatures available to you at the time.

One more thing you should keep in your mind: it's not effective to mix troops from 3 town types

While I was not aware of this, I have noticed how much better my armies perform when they are from one or two town types.

But as most have noted, you would do well to carry a tactician and a pathfinder in your army, so this is where I go off the page a little. With almost all of the towns, I would just go for the two heroes of the town (druid/archer for nature, knight/priest for life, etc.) although there are some exceptions. Use both heroes early game and develop by clearing your area. By the time week #2 comes around, you might have a better idea of which second town's troops (and thus heroes) heroes you'd prefer using.

But I still develop a tactician, pathfinder and lords whenever possible. I use the pathfinder to move the army around and then to pick up stuff as the main army fights. I hire lords (after I've come up with the main army) to hit all the skill powerups, to handle homeland defense (clear nuetrals from blocking dwellings) and to add some creature growth and income.

You can use a tactician with Order in either direction, Chaos/Death, Life/Nature.

[Milla aka. the Slayer]

Personally I find it very annoying that I'm stuck in combat-affiliates just because I gave my magic hero basic or advanced combat....

I guess it's a thing we have to live with