HoMM II: Best level 6 creature

[Metathron]

[Suleman]

It says War Troll where it should say Cyclops.

[Jolly Joker]

I think the Black Dragon beats the Titan: same speed, Flyer, high damage, double hex attack, magic immunity. If you just compare creatures.
If you see the whole game I'd say Phoenix is best. Superior speed gives you first cast, Elemental immunity, double hex attack. Higher base damage than Titan. Cheap, as a unit as well as the building. No upgrades.

[darknessfood]

Black dragons rule. Magic resistance kicks ass and the speed and damage are insane. Titans are good second...

[Darmani]

IMHO level 6 is really three tiers in cost, stats, and when they come into play: Crusaders and Cyclopes are tier 6; Bone Dragons and Phoenixes are tier 6.4; Black Dragons and Titans are tier 7.

I voted for the Crusaders. They cost in the area of the more expensive Level 5s, yet they do more damage than a Titan.

All you Black Dragon lovers, just remember: Magic immunity is a curse as well as a blessing.

[Meandor]

Pheonix.

I think the Black Dragon beats the Titan: same speed, Flyer, high damage, double hex attack, magic immunity. If you just compare creatures.

These two can be used against you.

[darknessfood]

IMHO level 6 is really three tiers in cost, stats, and when they come into play: Crusaders and Cyclopes are tier 6; Bone Dragons and Phoenixes are tier 6.4; Black Dragons and Titans are tier 7.

I voted for the Crusaders. They cost in the area of the more expensive Level 5s, yet they do more damage than a Titan.

All you Black Dragon lovers, just remember: Magic immunity is a curse as well as a blessing.

Nah, no curse. Most damage the lvl 6 units take is magic damage. When a high lvl caster does so, you can kiss your creatures goodbye. Dragons can sweep away a BIG part of the army, because he can fly and has a 2 hex attack...

[Meandor]

2 hex attack is overrated, good player might even force you to harm your own troops more with it than you`ll hurt him. Also you should consider the fact that you have to upgrade dragon tower twice in order to get them.

[asandir]

I went with the phoenix, not because it's the "best level 6 unit" cause on stats alone it isn't by a long shot, but because of the ancillaries, you can get them fast! you can have a few of them very early and cause absolute havoc, they are the fastest level 6 unit in the game and that should never be underestimated, plus it can be buffed - there's a lot to like!

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I voted the the King: the Black Dragon.

Too bad he was dethroned in H3 (both the Archangel and Ancient Behemoth can own him, and he just barely can beat a H3 Titan and only if he attacks first... Titan's damage was DOUBLED to a massive 40-60 in H3.)

Metathron, again nice table, you forgot to highlight Titan's cost in purple since he's the worst in that category

(and highlight Crusaders or Cyclops in red, depending whether which one you think is cheapest (what's worth more, 250 gold or 1 crystal? depends on your resources, I guess))

Shameless Self-promoting plug:

Folks you have no idea how much more fun H2 is since I lowered Titan and Black Dragon growth to 2 per week!

Since I also lowered Giant growth rate, I made the basic Cloud Castle much cheaper to compensate (8K gold). I could actually have made Giants stay the same growth (3) and lowered only Titans, but it would have felt weird.

[Banedon]

Vote Phoenixes. They may not be as strong as Black Dragons / Titans, nor are they as cheap as Crusaders, nor are they as easy to deploy as Bone Dragons - but they are very integral to Sorceress's blitz force, guarantee the first move in battles (well, except against Knight), deal considerable damage and overall are the best units in the tier (in my opinion at least).

[Metathron]

I went with the phoenix, not because it's the "best level 6 unit" cause on stats alone it isn't by a long shot,

You should consider cost as well. If you've got only 4000 gold, which has better stats, 4 crusaders or 0 titans?

Folks you have no idea how much more fun H2 is since I lowered Titan and Black Dragon growth to 2 per week!

That was a really good change, since it's like Darmani says: The tier 6 creatures are 3 very much different categories.

I also voted for the phoenix, mostly due to its amazing speed, which allows your hero to cast spells first. Something as simple (and ever accessible to a sorceress) as bless goes a long way for the wide damage range of the phoenix, not to mention casting some other high-level spells such as mirror image...Yikes!

P.S.: One of the specials for the crusader should say: double damage against undead, but I can't be bothered to edit again.

[Pitsu]

As everything, it depends on situation. On small maps dragons/titans are just pointless, because they need long investment and start to pay back only in long run. On large maps they, on the other hand, are next to a must have.
In fast games the phoenix could indeed be the best. Mainly due to its speed, since the speed and first strike are of high importance in this game. In long games titans and dragons are better due to their durability. It is just so much harder to take a 300HP creature stack down than a stack of n*100HP. From titan/dragon comparison, I would pick titans. Although they are vulnerable to direct damage, the game lacks implosion or spell power that could take more than a few titans in one hit. At the same time there are rescurrection and mirror image for titans.

Out of this comparison, a lvl6 creature that is nice to have in your army in both, short and long games is the genie. By stats he is one of the weakest lvl6, but low cost, high speed + flying and halving special make him an annoyance for the enemy.

[Meandor]

As everything, it depends on situation.

I doubt, imho Pheonix is clear winner on any situation. It`s buildable on small maps and on large ones and in both cases Pheonix kicks ass. Of course late game on large map you`ll include Titans and Dragons in your army but thing is that Pheonix is extremely useable at any point in the game. Even late game you`ll want them for Flying/Ultra fast.

[Metathron]

I voted for the phoenix, but I disagree with your assessment that it is "the clear winner on any situation". I don't think there is any such thing as clear winners, or I wouldn't have made a poll out of this question, obviously.
To be fair, the negative aspects of the fiery bird need to be taken into account: the phoenix dwelling needs quite a hefty sum of resources to be constructed, i.e. 10,000 gold, 30 ore, 20 mercury IIRC, and with 100 hp it is somewhat on the weaker side as far as level 6 creatures go (average: 166 hit points).

[Meandor]

I voted for the phoenix, but I disagree with your assessment that it is "the clear winner on any situation". I don't think there is any such thing as clear winners, or I wouldn't have made a poll out of this question, obviously.
To be fair, the negative aspects of the fiery bird need to be taken into account: the phoenix dwelling needs quite a hefty sum of resources to be constructed, i.e. 10,000 gold, 30 ore, 20 mercury IIRC, and with 100 hp it is somewhat on the weaker side as far as level 6 creatures go (average: 166 hit points).

Of course "clear winner on any situation" is a bit too much. Its cost doesn`t really matter, it`s still most cost effective and with protection from elemental spells its more durable than other "lower tier 6" creatures.

[Pitsu]

I doubt, imho Pheonix is clear winner on any situation. It`s buildable on small maps and on large ones and in both cases Pheonix kicks ass.

I think they are somewhat in pair with genies. From some point forward, it is good to have a few of them in your army, since their special (ultrafast speed or halving) gives you an advantage, but they rarely form the backbone of your army. I.e. phoenix is a good supporting unit. Using it as a damage dealer or absorber is questionable, however. Its durability, particularly under native hero isn't good. Even more, without the possibility to wait like in h3 or having other flyers in your army (sprites die fast too), moving the phoenixes to enemy lines for fast damage leaves them as the only available target for enemy walkers.

In conclusion, phoenix is possibly the most useful lvl6 creature, but it is not the best in the means of quality.

[Kristo]

In an unmodded game, Black Dragons are tops.

Folks you have no idea how much more fun H2 is since I lowered Titan and Black Dragon growth to 2 per week!

I should try that. That change alone only takes about 30 seconds to do and sounds like it would make a huge difference.

[Darmani]

Nah, no curse. Most damage the lvl 6 units take is magic damage. When a high lvl caster does so, you can kiss your creatures goodbye. Dragons can sweep away a BIG part of the army, because he can fly and has a 2 hex attack...

I'd disagree with that. I mean, the Titan's HP-to-damage ratio is the highest of anything, and the Bone Dragon's isn't too bad either. Crusader and Cyclopes are another story though.

Anyway, direct damage spells scale poorly. They are certainly extremely useful for the entirety of every game (unless your hero has poor knowledge and you're deep into a game on a map such as Lost Continent), but, with large armies, they become insignificant compared to the damage dealt by creatures.

However, blesses and curses do scale. The fact that your 10 Black Dragons can't be Lightning-bolted is a little less important than the fact that they also can't be Steelskinned, Ressurected, Blessed, or Bloodlusted if they're up against 60 Steel Golems.

IMHO Titans get the best of both worlds as far as immunity is concerned. Their high HP-to-damage ratio makes direct damage ineffective already, and they can be Blessed and Cursed. The only magic that can counter large amounts of strong creatures are spells such as Blind, Berserk, and especially Paralyze - but Titans are immune to those.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

The only magic that can counter large amounts of strong creatures are spells such as Blind, Berserk, and especially Paralyze - but Titans are immune to those.

100% agreed - and it is the reason in Heroes 3 why I always maintained Archangels were not as godly as people made them out to be - a simple Blind spell can put them out of combat for the whole battle if your spell power is high enough and the opponent can't cure/dispel! It's in a Knight/Cleric's best interest to collect artifacts that prevents this condition (Badge of Courage, Pendant of Second Sight)

Only three other Level 7 creatures in Heroes 3 can be blinded: devils, behemoths and hydras, and the latter two are much cheaper.

On the other hand, Heroes 3 has Implosion to counter those Titans...