Please explain "Irresistible Magic" to me

[Philoric]

Hello there

I've been trying to find information about this here on the forums but it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Can somebody please explain how the Warlock skill "Irrisistable Magic" works together with:

Luck -> Magic Resistance
Defense -> Protection
Artifacts of magic resistance
Artifacts of magic damage reduction (like Cloak of Sylanna)
Academy artificer artifacts that reduce magic damage

And while you are at it, please tell me if there are any difference between Heroes V, HoF and TotE.

[Jolly Joker]

It simply reduces the amount of magical resistance against Destructive spells by 20, 40, 50 and 75%, respectively depending on mastery. Which means, that with Expert Irresistable Magic a Warlock will AT LEAST deal 50% spell damage (against a completely immune unit).
For the workings of this there are no differences within the game versions.

[Metathron]

It stinks that this affects your own units as well, so no more soloing with blackies + armageddon.

[Wurtzel]

It stinks that this affects your own units as well, so no more soloing with blackies + armageddon.

No it doesn't, otherwise the warlocks would be unbeatable

[nevermindspy]

Luck -> Magic Resistance
Defense -> Protection
Artifacts of magic resistance
Artifacts of magic damage reduction (like Cloak of Sylanna)
Academy artificer artifacts that reduce magic damage

Magic resistance - blocks all magic by certain chance, without it unless other effects are present the magic damage is 100% , In case the resistence kicks in then the irresistible magic also kicks in and does damage according to its level.
Same principle in all resistence...

In case of magic reduction - protections , academy arts - If i'm not mistaken then it just kicks in all the time so the calculation is for example 25% protection and 75% irresistable then protection is only 25%* 3/4 (75% ) . - This is what i think i will check soon in the manuel to see if i got the magic reduction calculation right..

[Metathron]

It stinks that this affects your own units as well, so no more soloing with blackies + armageddon.

No it doesn't, otherwise the warlocks would be unbeatable

I disagree. This tactic was present in HoMM II-IV, and though it was tough to face such an opponent, it was certainly not unbeatable. It was actually great fun if you were the warlock, and a sizable challenge if you were his opponent. Why else have armageddon as a spell anyway?

[Jolly Joker]

It stinks that this affects your own units as well, so no more soloing with blackies + armageddon.

No it doesn't, otherwise the warlocks would be unbeatable

I disagree. This tactic was present in HoMM II-IV, and though it was tough to face such an opponent, it was certainly not unbeatable.

That's because there was no such thing as Irresistable Magic.

[Meandor]

You could always cast Anti-Magic on your bigger stacks.

[Jolly Joker]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Yes, it WAS not unbeatable. But that's because there was no such thing as Irresistable Magic which is, well, Irresistable.

[Metathron]

Before, "it WAS not unbeatable". But now that we have irresistible magic, it is unbeatable?

I have no beef with irresistible magic per se, I just wish it wouldn't affect your own black dragons, is all.

[Meandor]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

In H3 when fighting against Dungeon hero with BD+arma one of the better counters was anti-magic.

Metathron, it would be unbeatable if irresistable magic wouldn`t affect your own creatures.

[Jolly Joker]

Yes.
And that's why I answered this with, yes, but that was only because there was no Irresistable Magic.

[Saurus]

Luck -> Magic Resistance
Defense -> Protection
Artifacts of magic resistance
Artifacts of magic damage reduction (like Cloak of Sylanna)
Academy artificer artifacts that reduce magic damage

Magic resistance - blocks all magic by certain chance, without it unless other effects are present the magic damage is 100% , In case the resistence kicks in then the irresistible magic also kicks in and does damage according to its level.
Same principle in all resistence...

In case of magic reduction - protections , academy arts - If i'm not mistaken then it just kicks in all the time so the calculation is for example 25% protection and 75% irresistable then protection is only 25%* 3/4 (75% ) . - This is what i think i will check soon in the manuel to see if i got the magic reduction calculation right..

Let's see if I understand correcktly ..
When fighting VS a Warlock, then it is better to learn protection-skills than resistance-skills.
(For instance Sap Magic + Resistance since theese skills are not blocked and are in effect all the time regardless of the warlocks irresistable-ability?)

[danhvo]

In case of magic reduction - protections , academy arts - If i'm not mistaken then it just kicks in all the time so the calculation is for example 25% protection and 75% irresistable then protection is only 25%* 3/4 (75% ) . - This is what i think i will check soon in the manuel to see if i got the magic reduction calculation right..

No, I don't think that's how it works. For Magic Resistance, it says, "Increases magic resistance of all creatures in hero's army by 15%. Creatures are more likely to avoid enemy magic." I take this to mean that it gives you a chance to avoid enemy magic altogether, so by luck, you're either completely affected or not at all (all damage or no damage).

For Protection, it says, "Decreases damage dealt to your creatures by magic attacks by 15%". That means it does nothing for spells that don't do damage. I know that to be true, because I had a hero with this ability, and the enemy caster would cast Mass Slow repeatedly, and none of my creatures would ever resist it.

Irresistible Magic, per its description, appears to affect only Protection, so it shouldn't affect non-damaging spells either. For damaging spells, if a creature has both Protection and Resistance, when Resistance kicks in, the creature would still suffer damage because successfully resisting magic is treated as 100% Protection, and Irresistible Magic would reduce that accordingly.

[nevermindspy]

No, I don't think that's how it works.

See there's your problem right there.. You should first read what i said i think it was fairly clear..

I didn't think about anything but the exact formula numbers , About the way it works i was and am correct and ofcourse didn't mention thats anything rather than the exact way of how things work

[Naki]

To understand this, it is easier to give an example.

For example, if you try to attack Water Elementals with an Ice Bolt with a hero that does NOT have Irresistible Magic, then you will not be able to do it. Also, if you attack the Water Elementals with Circle of Winter, it will cause 0 (Zero) damage. The same goes for Fire Elementals and Fireball - it will not cause any damage. But, if your hero has Irresistable Magic, then you can attack Water Elementals with Ice Bolt, and use Fireball on Fire Elementals, and it will cause some damage.