Starting to play M&M

[Ya5MieL]

I finally got my hands on Might and Magic game, specifically M&M 6, and started playing it.
My RPG experience is mostly based on DND-rules games (BG, IWD, KOTOR...), so i might have troubles adjusting to a new system.

OK, I installed the game on Vista, and it works perfectly (who would have thought).
Downloaded patches from Celestial heavens.

Launched the game....
oookkkk... what have we here, 4 characters, seems similar to icewind dale setup.
I studied the stats and skill for a while to get a feeling of how they work.
After a while i decided to go with Knight+Archer+Cleric+Sorcerer.

A half week of playing later:

I'm still in first town,.. managed to beat some goblin horde and aprentice mages that were outside on the map. After some trouble managed to clean out the goblin fort as well. But here is where problems start:

In the temple NW of town, there seem to be quite strong monsters for my level. Specificaly cobras. Now, since i use the rest option like madman i suppose i will clean the dungeon up eventually but i wonder if i'm missing something, something that should make this easier. Or is hit and run what you are supposed to do in the first stages of the game.

Can someone more experienced answer?

[jeff]

I envy you playing MM 6 for the first time and 7 & 8 waiting. I prefer a Paladin to a Knight, as he can also have healing spells which helps you fight longer before having to rest. There are several quests all around that first city and you can explore several areas in that region where goblins, mages, clerics of baa and lizardmen occur in large numbers. In addition to the experience they have some teasure chests to help the coffers. The cobras can be tough on a low level party, but the payoff in experience does add up.

[Ya5MieL]

Oh well, since i don't want to start over, knight will have to do.

My worst nightmare is getting poisoned or diseased, my cleric doesn't seem to have the way of countering that.

Also, are there stat caps? (My sorcerer clicked on barrel giving +1 might while i got +1 intelligence with knight)

I guess in M&M7 i will be prepared for those, but there is long way to go in 6 still.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

- There are no stat caps, but after you reach 30 in any stat you need more and more to have an effect. For instance, for low Might, every 2 points increase dmg by 1 but it slows down after 30: you now need 5 points to increase dmg by 1.

- The best party IMHO is CDSS. MM6 is really Magic & Magic. The "heroism" spell provides all the melee strength I ever need. Maces and daggers are just as good as Swords/Spears/Axes. MM7 balanced Might classes much better by adding armsmaster and Chain/plate armor physical damage reduction.

- MM6 is huge and has tons of large, complex dungeons filled with hordes of monsters, so it can get tedious (especially with the party you picked).

- Use Purple potions to cure poison. Don't remember about the formula for diseases though.

Visit Magic Grounds, it's the best MM6 site on the web.
http://www.xmission.com/~tnelson/mm6/

For MM7 and MM8, it's Flamestryke
http://www.flamestryke.com/mm7/flamestrykes_mm7.html

[HodgePodge]

Oh well, since i don't want to start over, knight will have to do.

My worst nightmare is getting poisoned or diseased, my cleric doesn't seem to have the way of countering that.

Also, are there stat caps? (My sorcerer clicked on barrel giving +1 might while i got +1 intelligence with knight)

I guess in M&M7 i will be prepared for those, but there is long way to go in 6 still.

If any of your characters get poisoned mix a Red and Blue Potion for a Purple Potion which cures poison. To cure disease, mix a Purple Potion and a Green Potion (Yellow & Blue) to get a White Potion of Restoration which cures all conditions except stoned, dead or eradicated.

The Stat Caps are 256 natural … which means you can go beyond that cap with Artifacts. The cap for Skills is 60.

Minor Spoilish Below!

My humble suggestions are to first of all, show the letter to that Baa guy in the New Sorpigal Tavern for 1,000 gold. Then take the coach to Castle Ironfist and give the letter to Wilbur Humphries at the Castle. He gives you 5,000 gold. With this new found wealth, hire a Wind Master & a Gate Master. These NPC's are well worth the cost … you'll see why below.

Then return to New Sorpigal (you can hire your Wind Master & Gate Master here if you wish instead). Visit the 3do/NWC Dungeon which has lots of cool stuff just waiting for your characters to pick up. There is also an office where that frightingly infamous goblin Jon Van Caneghem wields his power … when you click on his desk, the Day of the Gods Spell will be cast on your party. Your party will become afraid while in JVC's office so be sure to leave his office before you gate out of the 3do Dungeon to cancel the Afarid effects. Day of the Gods will still be active on your party until you sleep it off.

There is a treasure chest which will give your party 10,000 gold so be sure to put all your gold in the bank first, before going to the chest. You can use this chest as many times as needed on seperate visits.

Oh, you are probably wondering how to get there, huh? Well, walk behind the Bank Building to the Bucaneer's Lair. Use your Wind Master to cast Fly and fly up to the eaves and click on the roof. This is a secret teleporter to Dragonsand. SAVE HERE!

Click on the roof and you will be teleported to the Shrine of the Gods in Dragonsand. There will be many Dragons attacking your party so quickly RUN (by holding down the Shift Key) into the Shrine and hit the Enter Key to go into Turn-Based Mode. If your party dies, reload and try again. It is possible to get safely into the shrine with little damage to your party. Keep trying.

Click on the Obelisk in the Shrine for each character seperately, to get +20 to ALL Stats, Resistances, Armor, Hit Points & Spell Points … Permanently! Then turn around and click on the inner side wall of the shrine to be teleported into the 3do Dungeon. Search thoroughly. When you have finished, you can use your Gate Master to Gate safely to any available town.

You can go back to New Sorpigal and get healed at the Temple. Then you can go to that Abandoned Temple while Day of the Gods is active.

Revisit the 3do Dungeon often as it resets about once a week. The Treasure Chest will always top your party's gold off at 10,000, not counting what you have in the bank.

Good Luck & Have Fun!

PS: Here is a link to Might & Magic 6-8 Saved Game Editors.

[Ya5MieL]

I have no idea where or what this 3DO dungeon is.

Enter for turn based mode? There is turn based mode? Ah well, rushing into game without reading manual has its flaws. I guess this was what i was missing in the fights.

The unlimited gold chest seems like a cheat to me. As does that permanent +20 to all stats... Is this standard quest/dungeon or some sort of easter egg which makes the game easier?
----
Cleared out the quests in the temple. As an DND player, i was surprised to see +10 sword as a reward so early in the game but i guess in this system it is not as game breaking as it would be in DND

Found the girl, cobra eggs and spider heart, but i havent found that thing they want in townhall.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

The NWC dungeon is an easter egg.

The +20 shrine of the gods itself isn't an easter egg. but it's in a very hard to reach area, so the teleporter that gets you there IS the easter egg.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Enter for turn based mode? There is turn based mode?

Push 'Enter' to enter or leave Turn-Based Mode.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Eh. It just makes the game longer and more complicated.

The game can easily be won entirely in real time.

[BMJedi]

"...that thing they want in townhall..." If you mean the Chime of Harmony, it's the last thing you'll find in the Temple of Baa in the Castle Ironfist region.

The Shadow Guild dungeon where you rescue Sharry is also in Castle Ironfist - you have to do a lot of travelling back and forth in the early game.

In this game, a +9 Sword of Champions is nice to have for your Knight in the early game, but not overwhelming. To hit rolls are based on 100, not 20, as in DnD. Also, plus bonuses on weapons have nothing to do with what can and can't be hit, or how much damage is done. The bonuses refer to chance to hit only, so a +10 bonus just means you'll hit with it 10 percent more often.

That's about a 10 to 1 ratio in comparison to DnD - a +10 weapon in MM is about as powerful as a +1 weapon in DnD. Also, 10 character levels are about as powerful as one DnD character level, in other words, gaining 11th level in MM is about the same as gaining 2nd level in DnD.

I wouldn't dream of managing combat without being in turn-based mode, though many people find a thrill in playing in real time.

[HodgePodge]

I have no idea where or what this 3DO dungeon is.

Well, that's why I gave you explicit directions on how to reach the 3DO Dungeon.

Enter for turn based mode? There is turn based mode? Ah well, rushing into game without reading manual has its flaws. I guess this was what i was missing in the fights.

Yes, 'Enter' is a Toggle … Turn-Based Mode On, Turn-Based Mode Off!

The unlimited gold chest seems like a cheat to me. As does that permanent +20 to all stats... Is this standard quest/dungeon or some sort of easter egg which makes the game easier? ----

Not a cheat but you've guessed it … an "Easter Egg" included in the game by the developer.

Cleared out the quests in the temple. As an DND player, i was surprised to see +10 sword as a reward so early in the game but i guess in this system it is not as game breaking as it would be in DND

Welcome to the world of Might & Magic. Leave your DND mentality at the door.

Found the girl, cobra eggs and spider heart, but i havent found that thing they want in townhall.

You're in the wrong temple. The Chimes are located in the Temple of Baa in Castle Ironfist.

[Gaidal Cain]

If any of your characters get poisoned mix a Red and Blue Potion for a Purple Potion which cures poison. To cure disease, mix a Purple Potion and a Green Potion (Yellow & Blue) to get a White Potion of Restoration which cures all conditions except stoned, dead or eradicated.

Does Orange potions do something different from the later games in MM6?

[DaveO]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the far easier exploit. Get the rewards in New Sorpigal and Ironfist that HodgePodge mentioned. Then do your self a very big favor and buy some bows for the entire party. In Ironfist, I'd not settle for less than the +2 bows there. Use that enter key often since you'll be fighting Baa fanatics and Lizardmen on that map. I'd recommend a Teacher/Instructor combo before heading to Ironfist. Save the Shrine of the Gods and the NWC dungeon for later since you can get to 15 on primary stats from various wells throughout the game.

P.S. - M&M does follow D&D in a small way in that you can safely pooch non-essential stat scores.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Does Orange potions do something different from the later games in MM6?

Yeah, they were 'Energy Resistance' or something like that in MM6, which always annoys me when I go back to that game. It's not nearly as useful in the early game as Cure Disease, considering all the nasties that can cause it on your party.

[HodgePodge]

If any of your characters get poisoned mix a Red and Blue Potion for a Purple Potion which cures poison. To cure disease, mix a Purple Potion and a Green Potion (Yellow & Blue) to get a White Potion of Restoration which cures all conditions except stoned, dead or eradicated.

Does Orange potions do something different from the later games in MM6?

Yes, in MM6 an Orange Potion give +10 to your Armor temporarly and Green Potion gives +10 to Resistances. It's only begins in MM7 where Orange heals disease and Green cures sleep. Purple Potion still cures poison in MM7 & 8.

Yellow Potions in MM6 give +10 to all Stats temporarily and in MM7 Yellow cures weakness. The Alchemy system in MM7 & 8 have been greatly improved, probably due to the introduction of the Alchemy Skill in these games.

[Avonu]

Yeah, they were 'Energy Resistance' or something like that in MM6, which always annoys me when I go back to that game. It's not nearly as useful in the early game as Cure Disease, considering all the nasties that can cause it on your party.

But in MM6 you can quickly learn Cure Disease spell - you don't need to be body magic master - you only need to buy or found book with this spell.


One question about statistics:
What is better in long run in MM6 - to quickly visit Shrine of Gods and drink black potions to rise stats or wait until you first visited all well which pernametly boost your stats? Well are working only if your stats are not to high and when you visited Shrine of Gods and drinks black potions they almost ever not working anymore.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Yes, in MM6 an Orange Potion give +10 to your Armor temporarly

Oh, so that's what it was. Guess I have to go back and play more MMVI.

But in MM6 you can quickly learn Cure Disease spell - you don't need to be body magic master - you only need to buy or found book with this spell.

Yeah, if you've been Diseased for less than THREE MINUTES per point of skill. So if your CD person gets knocked out, or you happen to be in combat too heavy to have time to break out CD before the whole 18 seconds or so pass, by the time you can cast it you're stuck with Disease anyway until you cure it some other way. : (

[masterpoobaa]

Dont forget spells. The following spells are essential for the beginner party.

A. Bless - available from castle ironfist.
B. Heroism - available from castle ironfist.
C. Stoneskin - have to go as far as freehaven.
D. Shield - freehaven or mist.
E. Haste - freehaven or mist.
F. Cure poison - castle ironfist - essential for the abandoned temple!
G. Sparks - fun in tight spaces. very effective once you know how to use it. best in tight corridors or failing that, run up to a monster point blank and fire it off! economical spell too! high DMG/spell points used.

Other than that make sure everyone has bow skill. pump your bow stats up to 4 asap. then save 8000 gold for when u visit castle ironfist and get expert bow skill, as well as +2 and +4 longbows. saving before entering the bowshop then reloading can get u a better mix of +2/+4 bows.
Bows are reliable range damage devices. neglect at your peril.
And the way MM6 is structured, a sorceror can be just as good as a knight with a bow.

Some other good things about castle ironfist is that it offers expert shield/leather/chain/plate as well. very handy.

At the start i tend to hoard every potion, bottle and herb i can to create enough black potions for all my char members.
Those potions in conjunction with a lightning visit to the NWC temple thinggy in dragonsands gives a very hefty stat boost!

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P.S. if you do want endless potions, i found a cute bug/feature in the 3DO dungeon.

In the dungeon there is a chest that gives gold, up to 10000. with no limits i think so long as ur gold is below 10k.
To the south there is a room that has 3 cabinets in it.
1 gives food (with a chance of being poisoned or made drunk)
1 gives empty potion bottles (pointless)
but the middle one gives potions for gold.

So what you do is
A. visit chest for 10k gold.
B. goto chest and buy as many potions as u can.
C. Refill your money at the chest.
D. repeat until you have enough potions to make all the black potions you need, and enough party buffing potions to make you happy.
Excess potions can be flogged for money back in town.
Excess black potions net you a nice money bonus.

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P.P.S.
Yes i try to visit all the fountains once. the +10 stat boost accross the board is handy.
that + NWC temple + black potions rock.