Strongest Faction?

Kaxeon · Unread postby **Kaxeon** » 27 May 2006, 15:01

So, what is in your opinion the STRONGEST town. Not favorite as in "I always liked the nature theme", but strongest as in "I always win when playing with this town".

I think Sylvan is a very, very good town. You get a good start with the first 4 creatures, allowing you to grap mines and treasures quickly. The top 3 creatures are pretty good as well, and complement the rest of the army nicely. One problem is the heroes though. I don't like the town specific skill.

Haven is another such town, having great units through the entire game. If you are rich, training grounds is such a nice option. I just got my *** handed to me on normal difficulty by an AI Haven hero with a (I thought) much weaker army than my Academy army. Got the game yesterday, so, I guess I am still a newb.

To turn things around a bit, I have to say I consider Inferno the weakest. Too many walkers, to few shooters/flyers/spellcasters. They start off pretty badly with the first 3 creatures imho, and level 5 and 7 are not that good either. Gating is neat when it becomes instant, but that happens too late in the game.

Any comments?

Wolfshanze · Unread postby **Wolfshanze** » 27 May 2006, 15:58

Necropolis... very strong mid to late game... armies always growing.

1,000 skeleton archers when other factions have 50 archers.

Kalah · Unread postby **Kalah** » 27 May 2006, 16:01

Sylvan. No contest. Those shooters are like having a nuclear bomb when your opponent has... sticks. Maybe a balance patch could be made to decrease their growth, how's that..?

DuRieL · Unread postby **DuRieL** » 27 May 2006, 16:32

Kalah wrote:Maybe a balance patch could be made to decrease their growth, how's that..?

Isn't this a bit too soon to make balance changes? Then again, if you've played the game long enough...

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 27 May 2006, 17:34

Cant say anything, for me its nothing thats best or worst it all depends, and I havent tested out all the towns yet so its hard to tell.

Lord Zeus · Unread postby **Lord Zeus** » 27 May 2006, 17:36

Vote Dungeon

Elemental Chains+Sinitar+Empowered Spells=No. 1
Close Second Necropolis with Necromancy+Vladimir

Boromir · Unread postby **Boromir** » 28 May 2006, 08:34

I think Sylvan is the strongest faction, with Dungeon being the runner-up. In case of Sylvan, one should consider that this is one of the two very cheapest factions in terms of town development (see here). Along with that come some units being extremely useful and great for their levels: Sprite, Master Hunter, Silver Unicorn, Ancient Treant and Emerald Dragon.
Dungeon is great for its elemental chains and generally very powerful Destructive Magic. Along with that we have Black Dragon here (the strongest unit in the game) and Grim Raider, which is the very greatest level 4 unit. However, Dungeon is rather weaker on very large maps. Here the armies are so huge that Destructive Magic becomes less important, while it's far better to cast Dark Magic with mass effects to lower enemy units' statistics. Here Necropolis appears to be great. However, still Sylvan is the strongest town.

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 28 May 2006, 09:27

The high demands for wood, crystal and gems dosent seem to stop sylvan from being the best. Once you have enough hunters, treants and druids the rest is mostly a cakewalk.

Alamar · Unread postby **Alamar** » 28 May 2006, 14:14

I haven't played NEARLY enough to have an informed opinion ... but that's never stopped me before

BTW: my opinions were formed when playing on heroic difficulty. Other factions may do much better with more starting resources!!

To me it looks like Sylvan is a MACHINE in small to medium sized maps. The castle almost builds itself ... The level 3 & 4 creatures are what REALLY makes Sylvan though. Hunters will destroy anything in their path unless they are blocked and Druids have unmatched early spell power.

With the mines that you can take you may very well be the first faction to Level 7s and almost certainly will be the first to be walking around with L7s in your army.

On XL maps I do think that Necros w/ Necromancy, Raise Dead, etc. are just as good and maybe better.

Haven also looks competitive if played well.

Academy looks OK but their castle is PRICEY!!

Inferno and Dungeon on normal or easy modes would be really powerful but on Heroic where you're comparatively resource and $ starved it takes them toooooo long to get rolling. On small or medium heroic maps I don't think they stand a chance against Haven, Sylvan, or Necros. A Master Gremlin rush by Academy MIGHT also do them in ....

SteveJobs · Unread postby **SteveJobs** » 28 May 2006, 17:21

I haven't played much, but I played heroes III a lot.

Vladimir and the raise dead spell are completely unbalanced, add in soul link too. This basically took what I dominated with in heroes III and made it even better, if you can get soul link or intelligence early, it's really hard to stop Vladimir, I was destroying things I shouldn't have been destroying early, without losing a thing.

In my very little experience with the game, the sylvan archers need to be toned down, and also the mana drain on imps needs to be toned down, undead needs it's higher tier creatures tweaked and at the very least raise dead needs to be level 3, and perhaps not available on vladimir.

I mean with 40 vampires 20 ghosts and 350 skellie archers I destroyed 8 black dragons, without even losing mana. Those dragons could kill half of my vampires in one hit, against the computer ai all I did was soul link my archers or vampires and kept animating them.

Infiltrator · Unread postby **Infiltrator** » 28 May 2006, 17:31

Voted Sylvan. Easy to play, their strategy you employ with them is "hmm, what stack should I eliminate first?" then point your Hunters and Druids on it. The Swift Striker specializer is one of the best heroes in the game and will make sure the already fast sylvan units get to unload before the enemy has the chance to do anything. Ultimate ability is composed of very good abilities for the hero (Def, Off, Logistics and Luck) and is the best Ultimate as well. Of course the real joke is that Sylvan don't really need it to dominate other towns.

Lord Zeus wrote:Vote Dungeon

Elemental Chains+Sinitar+Empowered Spells=No. 1
Close Second Necropolis with Necromancy+Vladimir

Ele Chains aren't nearly as strong as they were, and Sinitar is a joke of a hero. After level 15 he stops gaining any benefits (mana cost of empowered reaches mana cost of normal spell), he's good for small maps but not anything else. Dungeon has some other so-so heroes but none of them stand out as the absolute favourite (Lizard master gets frenzy, nullifying your chance to get Retribution, Coven Mistress attacks are roughly 1/3-1/2 the strenght of the already weak Matrons ect) and TWO heroes start out with Dark Magic which is a total waste since you aren't aligned with that school. Jhora, Klaus, Vladimir, Swift Striker spec guy from Sylvan are for example excellent and clear choices.

Metathron · Unread postby **Metathron** » 28 May 2006, 18:40

I've only tried out Haven thus far, so I've yet to cast my vote. However, I sincerely hope no one faction is the strongest, as this would seriously damage the balance of the game.

Blue_Camel · Unread postby **Blue_Camel** » 28 May 2006, 19:48

Ele Chains aren't nearly as strong as they were, and Sinitar is a joke of a hero. After level 15 he stops gaining any benefits (mana cost of empowered reaches mana cost of normal spell), he's good for small maps but not anything else.

joke of a hero??? i have yet to play MP but i bet he will be one of the 2 or 3 favorite heroes of everyone. him and that logistics hero for haven. You're quite right, his special ability stops being useful after L15, but if you've killed 30-40% more neutral armies than your opponent by that time (due to empowered spells.. and that above number is not unrealistic, i don't think).. then Sinitar will be much stronger than the enemy main hero, your armies will no doubt be stronger, etc. etc. You can't forget about the snowball effect in strategy games. I don't think it will matter if the enemy hero's special ability is still going strong if the two heroes meet and Sinitar is 5 levels higher.. lol. maybe it would even out if it's a really large map.. but otherwise, Sinitar is one of the strongest, I think.

Lord Zeus · Unread postby **Lord Zeus** » 28 May 2006, 20:10

Blue_Camel wrote:
Ele Chains aren't nearly as strong as they were, and Sinitar is a joke of a hero. After level 15 he stops gaining any benefits (mana cost of empowered reaches mana cost of normal spell), he's good for small maps but not anything else.
joke of a hero??? i have yet to play MP but i bet he will be one of the 2 or 3 favorite heroes of everyone. him and that logistics hero for haven. You're quite right, his special ability stops being useful after L15, but if you've killed 30-40% more neutral armies than your opponent by that time (due to empowered spells.. and that above number is not unrealistic, i don't think).. then Sinitar will be much stronger than the enemy main hero, your armies will no doubt be stronger, etc. etc. You can't forget about the snowball effect in strategy games. I don't think it will matter if the enemy hero's special ability is still going strong if the two heroes meet and Sinitar is 5 levels higher.. lol. maybe it would even out if it's a really large map.. but otherwise, Sinitar is one of the strongest, I think.

I am to late in the defense of Sinitar. Everything you said is true. Also you forgot the fact that warlocks don't get a lot of knonledge, even with the building they have a low score <9 by level 25. So if you can cast a spell that does 50% more damage at normal cost, that really helps conserve spell points.Also if you give sinitar sorcery and arcane training this hero can destroy a lot of creatures just with spells.
Also empowered spells+expert irresitable magic= a lot of dead black dragons.

BTW what would be an alternative to sinitar? maybe Lethos if we knew the exact numbers of the poison he inflicts.

Purple Sky · Unread postby **Purple Sky** » 28 May 2006, 20:13

When playing Necropolis, when you are on the battlefield and loose units, cast Raise Dead spell. Unlike in *all* other factions, undead will be actually resurrected(not until the end of the combat).

This little element combined with eternal servitude and skeleton raising abilities, will make your army the bigest and hard to destroy.

Blue_Camel · Unread postby **Blue_Camel** » 28 May 2006, 20:24

Purple Sky wrote:When playing Necropolis, when you are on the battlefield and loose units, cast Raise Dead spell. Unlike in *all* other factions, undead will be actually resurrected(not until the end of the combat).

This little element combined with eternal servitude and skeleton raising abilities, will make your army the bigest and hard to destroy.

i agree, necro is really strong with raise dead. but it seems like every faction has it's "unbalanced" overpowering features. so maybe.. everyone having an overpowering feature = balanced? or close to it after some tweaking in patches.

Infiltrator · Unread postby **Infiltrator** » 28 May 2006, 21:24

Lord Zeus wrote:
Blue_Camel wrote: joke of a hero??? i have yet to play MP but i bet he will be one of the 2 or 3 favorite heroes of everyone. him and that logistics hero for haven. You're quite right, his special ability stops being useful after L15, but if you've killed 30-40% more neutral armies than your opponent by that time (due to empowered spells.. and that above number is not unrealistic, i don't think).. then Sinitar will be much stronger than the enemy main hero, your armies will no doubt be stronger, etc. etc. You can't forget about the snowball effect in strategy games. I don't think it will matter if the enemy hero's special ability is still going strong if the two heroes meet and Sinitar is 5 levels higher.. lol. maybe it would even out if it's a really large map.. but otherwise, Sinitar is one of the strongest, I think.
I am to late in the defense of Sinitar. Everything you said is true. Also you forgot the fact that warlocks don't get a lot of knonledge, even with the building they have a low score <9 by level 25. So if you can cast a spell that does 50% more damage at normal cost, that really helps conserve spell points.Also if you give sinitar sorcery and arcane training this hero can destroy a lot of creatures just with spells.
Also empowered spells+expert irresitable magic= a lot of dead black dragons.

BTW what would be an alternative to sinitar? maybe Lethos if we knew the exact numbers of the poison he inflicts.

Sinitar is popular, but as I said, he's useful in small maps, but with big maps where you will reach level 20+, he won't be able to cope with some heroes that fully develop their skills (Jhora, Klaus ect.). Spell point conservation can be done without Sinitar, you need Secrets of Destruction and the Vault in your town for +3, that is huge. By level 15+, you will have so much mana (50-60 at least if you did right) his special will go down the drain, as casting spells with double the cost won't be an issue anyway. So while he is good in small maps, I definetly would not pick him on a bigger one. An alternative, well it's very hard to find one, as dungeon doesn't have their version of Necro's Vladimir. I go with Eruina on big maps. She has perfect starting skills and an ammo cart. Her spec is pretty shabby but once you get a reasonable number of Matriarchs you will start to notice the difference. Lethos has an excellent specialization if you're fighting anything but necro but is ruined as he starts out with Dark Magic.

asandir · Unread postby **asandir** » 29 May 2006, 02:27

although she's inferno, she's awful handy in the early game ... Deleb, if you can get ballistics then you are home in the mine clearing stacks, which can help alleviate the chronic resource needs of the inferno ... doesn't make them much better, but it sure helps!!

but i still vote sylvan, master hunters just DESTROY!!!

mctronic · Unread postby **mctronic** » 29 May 2006, 03:41

I think people are underestimating training. If you get the knight that specialize in archers and you train all you peasants to marksman you can do pretty good.

Crags_Legacy · Unread postby **Crags_Legacy** » 29 May 2006, 04:34

After intensive retesting my opinion hasnt changed much ... yet.

Necros own this game, so far. Thats a fact.

But Sylvan... omg sylvan... just omg.

Last 5 custom scenarios i played (heroic) had something in common. In all of em a Necro CPU completely smashed his neighbours and gatherer crazy amounts of archers. In most they were the last enemy to face me. So it seems they work well with little management (no "thinking man" behind). Its a winning formula.

But sylvan are so close in power to them... Their unit setup is... awesome. T3 & 4 just win. Actually my fastest starting month has been with Sylvan so far. If you manage the avenger ability well enough, you can face ridiculous odds and win. The secret of it all, is again, a ranged unit, and druids to a lesser extent. Just closed a Heritage, month 3 week 3, some necro punk who owns half the map knocking at my door with 1,8k skellies, +2 "lots" tier 7 stacks, and many madness. I somehow managed to pull the siege out with a measly 138 hunters (plus an army ofc

), and steal the show for 48k xp . But if a thinking man would have been behind that... dunno. Anyways, the point is the avenger ability and the cheesy hunters combined makes the race the true "hitmen" of hommV. If you see them coming, and you can prepare, youre gonna be one major nightmare. In fact, the only time i have completely failed a siege (could not win no matter how many times i tried) was agaisnt a Sylvan cpu. I couldnt understand how i was getting so mowed down and then i checked the thieves guild and found out my strongest stacks were "favourite enemy". That factor was so important and unaparent! it was a major shock. Thas one hell of a racial.

Errm okay the rants gone too far

Sorry

To conclude, my personal ranking of the factions so far (just naming the strongest wouldnt be fair

)

-Necros & Sylvan, tend to dominate.
-Academy, Haven, Dungeon. Your average Joe, with some surprises.
-Inferno. I love em, but they are weak.

The Heroes Round Table