Ultimate Abilities

[Lord Zeus]

As I looked through the skills pages of the http://www.the-genies-lamp.com/heroes_5_main.htm I wondered just what the skill lineup would look like for a hero that wants to have the ultimate ability of its race and If they are truly worthy of the sacrifice of getting crapy skills and abilities.
NOTE:
*Some abilities have different requirements depending on the hero class (Ranger, Knight etc). For Rangers Dead Luck only
requires Eleven Luck and Multishot but for the Necromancer it requires Death Scream.
*You can get the decription of each ability from the genie lamp.
*When you reply could you give your rating (1..10) and some of the important reasons for that choice.


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Knight
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Charge
Description: Hero Holy Charge ability makes triple damage.

Skills | Abilities
1.Training | Expert Trainer | Retaliation Strike | Prayer
2.Life Magic | Master of Blessings | Guardian Angel | Elite Casters
3.Logistics | Pathfinding | Native Terrain | Death Tread
4.Luck | Fortunate Adventurer | Grail Vision | Spoils of War
5.Learning | Scholar | Academy Award | Student Award

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Ranger
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Luck
Description: Units in hero army always have luck rolled on attacks.

Skills | Abilities
1.Avenger | Multishot | Snipe Dead
2.Offense | Frenzy | Wildfire
3.Logistics | Scouting | Disguise and Reckon | Native Terrain
4.Luck | Lucky Strike | Elven Luck | Dead Luck
5.Defense | Toughness | Last Stand | Holy Ground

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Wizard
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Wizardry
Description: All spells that are in existance will be written to hero's spellbook.

Skills | Abilities
1.Artificier | Magic Bond | Magic Mirror
2.Summoning Magic | Master of Conjuration | Unsummon
3.Learning | Scholar | Academy Award | Student Award
4.Sorcery | Arcane Taining | Counterspell
5.Offense | Archery | Wildfire | Chilling Steel

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Warlock
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Chains
Description: Elemental chain effects inflict double damage.

Skills | Abilities
1.Invocation | Dark Ritual | Elemental Vision
2.Learning | Eagle Eye | Dark Revelation
3.Logistics | Scouting | Teleport Assault | Death Tread
4.War Machines | Canonneer | Shake Ground | Last Aid
5.Luck | Lucky Strike | Lucky Spells | Grail Vision

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Demon Lord
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Gating
Description: Gating becomes instant.

Skills | Abilities
1.Gating | Consume Corpse | Mark of the Damned
2.Dark Magic | Master of Mind | Weakening Strike
3.Light Magic | Twilight
4.Logistics | Pathfinding | Quick Gating | Teleport Assault
5.Offense | Frenzy | Excrutiating Strike | Power of Speed
6.Luck | Lucky Strike | Critical Gating | Dead Luck

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Necromancer
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Ultimate Ability: Absolute Fear
Description: Death Scream special ability additionally dampens enemy morale by -6.

Skills | Abilities
1.Necromancy | Death Scream | No Rest for the Wicked | Raise Archers
2.Logistics | Pathfinding | Death Tread | Disguise and Reckon
3.Dark Magic | Master of Curses | Spirit Link | Soil Burn
4.Learning | Scholar | Lord of Undead | Dark Revelation
5.Offense | Frenzy | Chilling Steel | Retribution


Now for the my ratings:
NOTE:
*I've considered some abilities neither good nor bad so they won't appear in the pro/con lists

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Knight
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Pros:
+Needs Logistics
+Needs Life Magic, Master of Blessing , Elite Casters(Great for Archangels if they ressurect with a spell not an ability)

Cons:
-Needs Learning, Academy Award, Student Award (Which I think is the worst skill + the worst abilities for a main hero)
-Triple Holy Charge Damage isn't enough to have skills like fortunate adventurer or grail vision on your main hero

Ability Rating: 6/10


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Ranger
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Pros:
+Probably the best skill compared with the amount of bad skills and abilities it requires.
+Needs Logistics
+Needs Luck, Lucky Strike, Elven Luck (Very good luck abilities combined with Absolute luck makes the rangers unit extremely powerfull)


Cons:
-Needs Last Stand, Hold Ground (Which are totaly awfull)

Ability Rating: 9.5/10


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Wizard
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Pros:
+Needs Summoning Magic (Great Skill to have around)
+Needs Sorcery (Great for the Mage that knows every spell)
+Needs Offense, Archery (Good since the Academy has 3 archers)

Cons:
-Needs Learning, Academy Award, Student Award (Which I think is the worst skill + the worst abilities for a main hero)

Ability Rating: 8.5/10


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Warlock
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Pros:
+Needs Logistics, Teleport Assault (Which works great for the slow Hydra)
+Needs Luck, Lucky Strike, Lucky Spells (Chance to have luck when you cast spell=AWESOME, fit very well with the ultimate skill)

Cons:
-Needs Learning, Eagle Eye, Dark Revelation (Learning + Abilities = Crap)
-Needs War Machines, Cannoneer, Shake Ground , Last Aid (Out of All the war machines abilities probably the leas usefull)

Ability Rating: 8/10


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Demon Lord
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Pros:
+Needs Logistics, Teleport Assault (Which works great for the slow Pit Lord after it has consumed its spells)
+Needs Luck, Lucky Strike, Critical Gating (30% chance to have double the number of gated units=AWESOME)

Cons:
-Absolute Gating makes Quick Gating useless
-Needs All skill slots

Ability Rating: 8.5/10


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Necromancer
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Pros:
+Improved Death Scream(-7 to morale) is obscene
+Needs Logistics
+Needs Offense, Frenzy(Frenzy is great for the weak skeletons)
+Needs Dark Magic, Spirit Link (Dark Magic is a must for the Necromancer and Spirit Link is a great tool to come out of a fight with your spell points maxed)

Cons:
-Needs Learning, Scholar, Dark Revelation (Lord of Undead is the only ability that does something usefull, but for 5% extra

creatures isn't worth having learning)

Ability Rating: 9.5/10


Conclusions:
Most Ultimate abilities are great and work well for the respective races(some more than others).
The least usefull I consider to be Absolute Charge, while the most usefull brings a tie between Absolute Fear and Absolute Luck. I really can't decide which is the best.

[Campaigner]

First of all, the names have changed. I checked Heroesofmightandmagic.com and there the names are different. That site is maintained by Heroescommunity.com and they're always uptodate.

Wizard: Omniscience

Rating: 10/10

Getting all spells on expert lvl is godlike....it's like getting all four magictypes to expert AND all spells. And instead of picking all four magics you get other useful abilities like Sorcery and Offense.



Knight: Absolute Charge

Rating: 1/10

OMG what a useless ultimate ability....triple damage may be a little useful but compared to everything else the hero can do?? Well it's good anyway since I don't have to check a spreadsheet on what skill to get next....


Necromancer: Death Scream

Rating 9/10

Really good, this skill will surely see to that your enemy will NEVER get positive morale even if hes life depended on it (which it does )

Sylvan: Absolute luck

Rating: 10/10

Luck on every single attack is double damage on every attack. Together with Omniscience it's easily the very best there is.


Warlock: Rage of the elements

Rating: 7/10

I do not know how powerful elemental chains is as I have never seen it. But if it is a major thing to keep the Dungeon as powerful as the other ones then it's surely of importance.
But using elemental chains to full extent while battling don't seem to be easy :/


Inferno: Absolute Gating

Rating: 9/10

If the gated troops would get to act the turn they were summoned it would have been ultrapowerful. But they'll have to wait an entire turn so I don't classify it as powerful as some other ultimate abilities....

[ThunderTitan]

Doesn't Inferno get a skill that lets the gated creatures to act the same round they appear?

[vicheron]

Learning is much more useful in Heroes 5 than in Heroes 3. Expert learning gives 30% bonus experience and one bonus primary stat every 2 levels.

[Bandobras Took]

Learning is much more useful in Heroes 5 than in Heroes 3. Expert learning gives 30% bonus experience and one bonus primary stat every 2 levels.

And it's those bonus primary stats that make it really fun.

[Lord Zeus]

Learning is much more useful in Heroes 5 than in Heroes 3. Expert learning gives 30% bonus experience and one bonus primary stat every 2 levels.

I took the information about learning from the genie lamp where it said at expert the hero gets +15% more experience.
30% more plus an extra primary skill is better but you have to admit that skills like student award and academy award are pretty lame( maybe they could be better on small maps where the posibility of lots of level ups isn't that great)

[frozd]

Learning is much more useful in Heroes 5 than in Heroes 3. Expert learning gives 30% bonus experience and one bonus primary stat every 2 levels.

And it's those bonus primary stats that make it really fun.

Cool, didn't know that. So having a g33k hero with the cap of knowledge and cape of elightment isn't such a bad idea after all. So that makes me wonder is that +60% more experience or +48%?

[Omega_Destroyer]

ThunderTitan-

I think there's an ability that gives an Inferno hero the ability to gate with the assault effect, which may be what you are talking about. I believe the assault effect allows your summons to enter combat the turn they appear. However, I haven't tried this and I may be easily wrong.

[Phoenix_1973]

My impression about ultimate abilities :

Absolute charge is not so usefull for near 20 fixed level-ups , rating 3

Absolute wizardry is better , but Academy has their library and so experiensed wizard could already has most of the spells in his/her book .
And I nowhere seen that those spells will be on expert level , its will simply written in hero spellbook just like dealt the grail in Conflux in H3.
Rating 6

Absolute chains could be nesessery in Campain or superscripted maps , where AI has a huge advantage in army strengh , but in most of multiplayer maps warlock needs another skills like destructive magic , sorcery , offence and defence .
Rating 6

Absolute gating and absolute fear are quite powerful abilities , giving the hero a critical advantage on battlefield very often . Both worth rating 9

Absolute luck should be somehow downgraded . This ability in current version will be 100% banned in multyplayer because no one can resist against enemy who always deals double damage by any his/her stack . May be they should last this effect only against units from favored enemy list .
In current version rating could be very high above 10

[Bandobras Took]

Absolute luck should be somehow downgraded . This ability in current version will be 100% banned in multyplayer because no one can resist against enemy who always deals double damage by any his/her stack

Not even by having twice as many stacks (Absolute Gating)? Not even if Chain Lightning is doing quadruple or more damage through Elemental Chains/Destructive Magic Luck (can't remember the name of the skill that lets dungeon Heroes get lucky with magic)? Nor by having upgraded your 500+conscripts to footmen, priests, or champions? I wouldn't be too swift to say that Absolute Luck will be overpowered in actual MP. In the Duel Mode, perhaps, since that doesn't take a map into account, or levelling up, unless I miss my guess.

[Phoenix_1973]

Absolute gating needs you skip one turn for your own stack to activate it and the opponent could use it somehow weaking you .
To train your 500 peasants into paladins you should have near 1.5 millions of gold .
Absolute chains could help you extremely fine at one time , but can't be using at the other one .
Absolute luck just everytime makes it's deal , you need nothing to activate it , no time neither resourses .

[Bandobras Took]

Let's see what an Absolute Lucked hero brings to the table:

He's got soldier's luck, so his troops' random abilities will kick in more often. He'll have elven luck, which means it's more than double damage for his troops. 125%. And he's got Dead Man's curse, so opposing troops lose a level off their luck.

He's got Battle Frenzy and Nature's Wrath. +1 to damage, +1 to max damage. This is seriously looking like it's starting to hurt and the randomly firing ballista (the hero has no time to blow on War Machines if he's going for absolute luck) will also do some fire damage.

This is looking like a pretty nasty package, I'll admit. That +1 to damage will effectively become a +2.25, which will be brutal in the hands of the low-level creatures. If he's got Mass Bless, we'd be in even more trouble, except he ignored that in order to get Absolute Luck.

He's got Vitality (+2HP per creature), Last Stand, and Stand Your Ground.

Here we start running into issues. Stand Your Ground is only useful for troops who are by definition not taking full advantage of luck. Last Stand is only useful if you're getting your butt whipped and need to retreat. All we're left with is the low-level enhancer.

And for Stand Your Ground, he'd need Logistics: Familiar Ground. So far, so good; Logistics isn't bad.

He also needs Deadeye Shot and Rain of Arrows.

He hasn't picked up anything remotely resembling magic skills. Or War Machine skills. Or Leadership Skills. And Morale really matters in Heroes V.

It won't matter a whit how much damage his troops can do if they're:

1) Too demoralized to act;
2) Mass Slowed, Cursed, or otherwise impeded by the opposing Spellcaster, and you can bet your buttons that a Wizard will be slinging "Mass" versions of spells left and right. This is to say nothing of Buffs. If you're doing minimum damage through Curse and having that multiplied by 2.25, you're breaking a little better than even. But you still have to deal with the Blessed, Cold Iron and Fiery Wrath-enhanced troops of the other side;
3) Unable to even hit the opposing troops (Ghosts spring to mind here), unable to Retaliate (Cerberi spring to mind here), having to deal with multi-target ranged retaliation (Succubi Mistresses), and have nothing in the way of an area of effect shot; or
4) Getting their brains blasted out by an enemy Magic User who can ignore Magic Resistance of troops. Which, at last count, was a particular specialty of the Dungeon.

And that's assuming that you manage to get the skills needed in the right order; no easy feat.

That list includes the potential counters you'll find in the other towns assuming a similar level of Hero. The Necropolis will send your morale down the outhouse chute, meaning that your 2.5 damage troops will be acting half as often at best; the Haven will likely have converted a good chunk of its lower-level troops into higher-level ones and will have buffed them from here to eternity; the Inferno can win through twice as many stacks combined with multi-target creatures (Cerberi, Succubus Mistresses, and Pit Lords); the Dungeon can win because whatever Magic Resistance your troops have picked up won't be worth junk, and he'll be doing far more damage with his spells than you can cope with; the Academy can come at you with Debuffs and surprisingly enhanced Creature Stacks.

To repeat what I've said, there are too many options with the various skills to say right now that any of them are overpowered. Or even underpowered.

[Ururam Tururam]

Learning is much more useful in Heroes 5 than in Heroes 3. Expert learning gives 30% bonus experience and one bonus primary stat every 2 levels.

And it's those bonus primary stats that make it really fun.

It is well balanced now. In early game the exp bonus matters in late game the skill bonuses do. Now it is really a good skill for the primary hero especially in large scenarios or campaigns. Thus I would treat "needs learning" as a pro not a con.

[Linky]

Doesn't these ultimate abilities cause us to always level up a hero the same way to obtain these abilities if they're this powerful? Doesn't this pull the rug from under the whole idea of 'customizable heroes'?

I don't like this.

[Ethric]

Keep in mind that all the abilities you ned to get the ultimate ones may not be that useful to you in a particular scenario. And they are many, so you'd need many lvls to get there. You might weaken yourself in the process of getting the ultimate ability.

[mctronic]

I don't really mind the utlimate abilities. What I do mind is the Rangers' ultimate: Good skill and a great ultimate compared to the Knight's ultimate. Just right there we have a balance issue. But it's all stats, so we'll have to play and see.

[Infiltrator]

I just wonder what warlock will sacrifice 3 skill slots and get Logistics, Learning and War Machines to get his Ultimate. Not this one

[ThunderTitan]

Well Logistic is a good ability on the map and Learning is great for stats. War Machines is the only one that won't help you alot, but you still have 2 slots for Sorcery and a Magic Skill.

[Orfinn]

Keep in mind that all the abilities you ned to get the ultimate ones may not be that useful to you in a particular scenario. And they are many, so you'd need many lvls to get there. You might weaken yourself in the process of getting the ultimate ability.

Yeah, the pre skills may not be the best but the ultimate kick ass and vice versa, that the skills needed for that ultimate is great but the ultimate itself are crap.

[Lord Zeus]

War Machines is the only one that won't help you alot.

True, War Machines sucks for the warlock but for the Ranger is great:
Ballista + Imbue Ballista + Triple Ballista + Wildfire(Ballista ignores defense + fire damage)
For the Ranger War Machines is actually a very good choice.