Magic

[Panda Tar]

Thinking over the IDEAof how magic would work, I'd suggest not to make things like Spell Points, MP or else, but simply Mana (Mana Power or something of the sort to label an attribute), which would be all spent when casting a spell. The recovery time that would be accordingly to the Wizard's magical power and the spell cast. Given that magic is drawn from a place, other spell casting units cannot use the same tiles as a mana source, and are forced to move. After some turns, mana flows back to those tiles.

Also explained my views on magic classification, to run from elemental-binding, whereas terrain-binding would be cool and strategically fit to apply some desired mechanics.

Well, the topic to discuss Magic is now opened as well.

[Groovy]

Terrain-binding is a cool idea. How feasible would it be in the tabletop setting? Keeping track of which tiles have been drained of mana and whether they have recharged? I suppose we could make recharging a weekly event, which would simplify things.

[Panda Tar]

That would do. Given that tiles are numbered (or should be, I dunno), the GM has to take notes on where magic has been used.

I believe that some more stronger enchantments might also drain power from adjacent tiles, say, as by channelling power for more than 1 turn. This brings me the concept of how turns will work out in battle, but that's another topic.

Considering what you said about magic on the e-mail:

Learning spells:

• • The requirements for learning a meta spell (wisdom)
  • The source of the meta spell (creature, mage guild)
  • The method of learning the meta spell (tutoring, eagle eye)
  • The duration of learning the meta spell (instant, a day)
  • The means of recording the meta spell (memory, spell book)

Casting spells:

• • The conversion of a meta spell into a spell
  • The spell’s invocation mechanism (rune, incantation)
  • The spell’s school of magic (air, water, earth, fire)
  • The source of the spell’s power (caster, troops, artefacts, equipment, terrain)
  • The spell’s casting cost (mana)
  • The effect of casting the spell on its source (using mana, draining artefacts, changing terrain)
  • The spell’s energy type (electrical, magnetic, life)
  • The spell’s target type (unit stack, area, walls, terrain)
  • The number of targets
  • The target pattern (dot, line, cluster)
  • The spell’s effect on its target (bless, fireball)
  • The spell’s effect on the target’s surroundings
  • The spell’s power/duration [customisable]
  • The spell’s upkeep type (mana, life)
  • The spell’s upkeep cost (mana points, health points, number of troops)

I was also toying with the idea of fleshing out magic methods, domains and principles. Here's what I came up with:

method dynamic description
Incantation Active
Ritual Active
Forging Active
Trance Passive sees dreams, visions and omens
Brewing Active

domain level
Elemental 1
Alchemical 2
Organic 3
Emotional 4
Psychic 5
Being 6

principle duality description
Order Order-Chaos maximises control over magic to maximise its predictability; sacrifices the size of its effect in the process
Chaos Order-Chaos minimises control over magic to maximise the size of its effect; sacrifices its predictability in the process
Creation Creation-Destruction creates something new
Destruction Creation-Destruction removes what is to make room for new creations

I'm not sure what we can use in a easy and satisfyingly way in the Tabletop project. I believe DOMAIN and DUALITY can be used rather than METHOD, which could be subtle, more likely as a description of a Spell. I mean what players actually see, pick up and really care about.

As a Wizard gets higher and higher Mana Power, more Domains are accessible from a list of effects referred to each Terrain/Magic School, limited in knowledge of the local town's Magical Building. Some liberty of certain effects should be proposed or considered by the GM, in cases more than one effect should occur. Domains list a number of enchantments/spells that have the four effects following the principle of duality, although 1 of those 4 effects are the prime effect, which this enchantment is truly purposely for, thus the strongest effect.

For example:

On a desert terrain, the magician will cast a Domain 1 enchantment, the elemental mana Wind Blow (Destruction).

Effect: on Friendly | Enemy | Terrain

• Order: Pushes a unit 1 tile to a chosen direction | idem | Pushes a light obstacle (like a barrel) 1 tile to a chosen direction
  Chaos: Pushes targets away from the casting point in all directions (away from the caster takes priority, opposite in direction) | idem | idem
  Creation: creates an air shield against projectiles | makes ranged attacks from target to lose most of their strength | creates an air barrier that can delay movement from any passing unit or weakens project fired through it
  Destruction: makes target's attacks use wind properties, faster and disregarding retaliation | makes the air around the target to round in blades or wind, damaging that unit each turn and making it unable to act properly | destroys harmony from local air balance with a wind blade twister that will damage enemies in its wake, each turning moving onto another tile as wizard chooses

Something like this.

[Panda Tar]

Heroes could be oriented to Order, Chaos, Creation and Destruction principles by behaviour or Skill development, attributes, well, the list of things go long when thinking on mechanics.

Then, perhaps, heroes could also have those 4 orientations based on proficiency. The more you use Destruction, easier, stronger, less time consuming will be your Destructive spell casting. In a way that once you got too much immersed into Destructive spell casting, it would prove impossible using any Creative spell casting.

This "Proficiency" conceit is known in some games, the more you use a power, the stronger it gets, it upgrades or else. The game I saw using this same name is Star Ocean: Second Story. You had skills learned after reaching certain levels, and the more you used them, the more they would have greater effects (they would upgrade, in other words, have more AoE, more hits, be faster, etc.). In The Last Remnant, the more you use actions of a certain kind, the more your character and your team mates evolve into that direction, although you don't control them directly.

[Groovy]

You are way ahead of me on this. I'm still busy figuring out how magic should work for units, with no or very limited growth with experience.

Given that tiles are numbered (or should be, I dunno), the GM has to take notes on where magic has been used.

This is potentially a concern for me, possibly because I haven't played tabletop games that needed a GM. I'll comment on it in the Maps thread.

[Panda Tar]

You are way ahead of me on this. I'm still busy figuring out how magic should work for units, with no or very limited growth with experience.

Ah, just to keep that in mind then.

This is potentially a concern for me, possibly because I haven't played tabletop games that needed a GM. I'll comment on it in the Maps thread.

I understand. GMs are often seen in Tabletop RPG games, someone that represents the game itself, impartial. Also responsible to create the world and deal with all players interactions. It's a truly tough job, but very interesting.

[Groovy]

I'll comment on it in the Maps thread.

I ended up commenting in the Combat Model thread instead. It just seemed more appropriate.

[Panda Tar]

So, in order to help you with this part, do you have anything like spells already created? Or should I start from scratch based on the factions created?

[Groovy]

I have just added a lot of unit cards, some of which have spells and abilities. The only additional ones that I've got are:

• Raise Skeleton - raises Bipedal Skeleton, Skeleton Steed, Skeleton Saurus or Skeleton Gorger unit, depending on the type of corpse (to be used by Necromancer)
• Smite - 50% chance of killing the target unit outright (to be used by Grim Reaper)

I don't distinguish between spells and abilities at this stage. Spells are basically abilities that cost mana.

[Panda Tar]

Understood.

[Groovy]

Something I forgot to mention is that I would like spells and abilities to encompass a wide range of game features; they shouldn't be limited to combat. For example, I have just added the Harvest ability to Homestead's Geb (not Ged; that was a typo). It should probably be made more situational.

The purpose of this is to give the player more strategies to choose from than just going for the strongest unit. Different strategies should be optimal in different circumstances.

[Panda Tar]

OK.

[Panda Tar]

For spells, I'll start with Homestead units. I found two, is this accurate?

1. Give target unit flying mobility until end of turn
2. Produce some healing effect on target unit

Taking some info from what we discussed about spells before, I'll classify spells this way:

• LAW - spells related to dimensions, time and gravity.
• ELEMENTAL - spells related to the elements and plasma.
• ALCHEMICAL - spells born from reactions.
• ORGANIC - spells related to the living, healing and decay.
• EMOTIONAL - spells related to instincts.
• PSYCHIC - spells related to mind connectivity.
• BEING - spells related to spiritual and pure energy.

Can I proceed this way?

So, to make a spell and describe all its effects, I'll list below how I think it should look then:

_______________________________
NUMBER # (just numbering spells)

NAME: the global name of that spell. The name or a same spel can change depending on the caster's faction and overall effect. Or no changes, to avoid confusion.
CLASS: one of those classes listed above.
ORIGINS: the faction that might have been the first to use or to create said spell.
TARGETING: if it can target enemies, self, allies, terrain, obstacles, other spells.
USE: if it uses spell points, resources, lifeforce etc.
OPTIMALCAST: which kind of units it has the best effect and no problems if recast before duration is over.
OVERCAST: which kind of units it can have a overwhelming effect (out of control) if recast before duration is over.
EFFECTS: describes the basic effect of the spell based on the primary TARGETING listed.

• TERRAIN 1: describes the effect of the spell on that terrain and the effects on each TARGETING listed.
  TERRAIN 2: ibidem
  TERRAIN #: ibidem

LEARNED FROM: the list of ways to learn that spell and special conditions, if any.

How is this layout for you?

[Groovy]

The structure looks sound, if perhaps overly complex (optimalcast and overcast).

I’m curious why not build the spell/ability structure from the ground up? That is, instead of starting with a structure, start with the effects that you’d want the spells/abilities to produce, and then organise those effects into some kind of structure. By starting with a structure, I’m concerned that we’ll end up with something that is an imperfect fit to the game mechanics, as well as more complex than it needs to be.

[Panda Tar]

Like a Spell Tech-tree? Just for saying, but something on that layout then? You have the spell basic effect, then it spreads to this and that branches with its varieties.

[Groovy]

I'm not sure what you mean by the spell tech tree.

I'm not suggesting enhancing the spell structure (it's fine as it is). I'm suggesting not using it at all until much later in the design process. What I'm suggesting as an alternative is to focus on the spell/ability effects that we'd want to produce. These can be derived from game mechanics on one hand, and unit and faction lore on the other. Once we have a comprehensive list of effects, then it makes sense to me to look for patterns in them – categorise them, etc.

Again, this is just a suggestion. If you find it awkward (due to lack of familiarity with the game mechanics, or whatever), then please go ahead and do what you were going to do before I interrupted you.

[Panda Tar]

Hm, one step at a time then. I'll work on a first spell, then we see how it would be better to progress.

[Panda Tar]

So, I'll start with "FLY".

Enchanted Wings

• Primary effect: When cast upon an allied target, this spell imbues the power of magical wings upon that ally, bestowing the gift of flight. Units under this spell cannot be bound in place by any means. This spell cannot be cast upon mindless targets, such as machines and certain undead, for it requires a level of consciousness to understand and learn how to use those wings in battle, even if only instinctively.

I thought adding this "wing" feature to give a visual and logical meaning to this spell. I didn't think FLY and FLOAT and WEIGHTLESS should be all treated equally and used freely. Flying requires a certain level of intelligence and instinct, and it is an act of going up and down on a terrain. Other spells regarding FLOATING and WEIGHTLESS can be created then.

Hmm ... what to do next regarding that precise spell? If that's all we need for a start, I can move to the other one.

[Panda Tar]

Healing Feather

• Primary effect: compressing healing powers into a small feather, it is tethered on an allied target for a while. The healing effect depends on the power of the source. The more powerful the source is, the longer lasts the feather and it'll heal much more injuries and ailments. This spell won't work on lifeless bodies, unsubstantial, elemental, machinery.

[Panda Tar]

Nature Net

• Primary effect: areas of wilderness which have trees can sense the presence of invaders coming next to it - an adjacent 3x3 area. The stronger is this spell, the more precise is the identification of those invaders. It lasts until caster change focus (taking the action of battle, for example) or cast another sensor-type spell. To cast this spell, the caster must be on the area or have a mind-bound unit wandering there (the last friendly unit that came into contact with the caster).