Heroes 5 isn't a true Heroes of Might & Magic game.

[Jolly Joker]

So? The game isn't called:

John van Caneghem's Heroes of M&M.

That said, I remember that games would be called SID MEIER's CIVILIZATION instead of Civilization to assure is that this would be the realand original Civ...

In the end it solely depends on the GAME, not on the NAME.

[okrane]

I agree with JJ this conversation in kinda pointless...

HOMM 5 is different than the rest because it has a different dev. But still, without them the series would have just died, and so we should take this into account.

[theLuckyDragon]

Initially HoMM5 annoyed the heck out of me because I couldn't run it on my computer. Now I got bored (and upgraded a little something) and started it again to see whether it can keep me interested enough to get Agrael to Tieru (that's where I had left it last time, before uninstalling).

I must say it's definitely giving me a Heroes of Might and Magic sensation while playing. The story is indeed rather boring, but I guess it's just because I've already been through it once up to this point. No horrible crashes or imbalances have spoiled my play experience up to the present moment. What I like the most is the new skill system, which is really easy to grasp using Aurelain's wonderful Skill Wheel. The renamed spells make me raise an eyebrow every once in a while, but it's just a question of getting used to them.

From my point of view, H5 is game that sticks to the principles of M&M.

[Kareeah Indaga]

I'm really trying, but I have problems to see the purpose of this thread.

And I fail to see the purpose of your post.

Everyone needs to vent a little, and no one made you read the thread. Not everyone is willing to accept the flawed garbage that is HV, no matter how you try to spin those flaws.

[ThunderTitan]

From my point of view, H5 is game that sticks to the principles of M&M.

Yeah, thank the Lloyd for that... they actually made HoMM a TBS... i love low expectations.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

In the end it solely depends on the GAME, not on the NAME.

True, but it's the NAME that got people's attention in the first place.
It's the NAME that made people buy Ubisoft's "Heroes of Might and Magic" instead of some random basement dude's own "Heroes of Might and Magic".

My point is, there is no merit to Ubisoft, they did nothing to deserve that name recognition, they didn't participate in what made it a success in the first place, all they did is buy it. I'd have more respect if they released a Heroes clone and called it something else.

Another good example. Master of Orion 1 and 2 was masterminded by Steve Barcia. MOO3 didn't, and we all know how it ended up

[Elvin]

My point is, there is no merit to Ubisoft, they did nothing to deserve that name recognition, they didn't participate in what made it a success in the first place, all they did is buy it.

Uhh they did make the game..? Sure they had some ideas on how to do it but come on.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Ok, let me rephrase it: the name was ESTABLISHED BEFORE Ubisoft came along.

[Jolly Joker]

I fail to see your point.

I'd see your point, if Ubi had gone ahead, sewn something together in a couple of months and sell it under the M&M brand to make a fast buck - the way 3do did with the Legends titles and with H 4 and especially the addons.
But that's not the case, actually. Even if some people like Kareeah Indaga say it's "garbage" (I really would like to know what this assessment is based upon). The game has done a lot to RE-establish the name (that has suffered, let's say due to 3do's - not NWC's - shortcomings), and it's pretty clear that there will be a Heroes 6.
Me, I don't want to play a game forever, no matter how good it is, and while I'll put on Hell's Bells now and then, something new is (or would be)appreciated as well.
Also, they are marketing the old titles as well, and every kid that doesn't know the old games and will buy a Heroes V product might be interested in obtaining a copy of the old titles - there is a box, for 10 €, that contains both H 3 and H 4 complete and no matter which way you stand to H 4, that is a lot of content for 10 bucks and might just be the right deal for some of the less hyperactive kids without a nervous trigger finger out there. Having a new title on the shelves will boost the sales of the older titles as well.

[Humakt]

Another whining thread I see.

Well, let me contribute. I find it sickening that some of the so-called "fans" of the series are nothing but real suckups in the forums whining year and half after the release of game how it sucks and threatens to bomb/kill developers because of it. Whether it's real threat or not doesn't matter, it is still idiotic to say it.

Only real faults HoMM5 has it doesn't have decent enough editor and isn't original enough to differentiate from the rest of the HoMMs to make it feel more like a fresh air rather than dust in the closet.

[arturchix]

Only real faults HoMM5 has it doesn't have decent enough editor and isn't original enough to differentiate from the rest of the HoMMs to make it feel more like a fresh air rather than dust in the closet.

Well, there are a bit more real faults you mentioned like lack of a decent AI (which, I beg a pardon, is one of the core elements for a Heroes game) but obviously Heroes V is a true Heroes game. When devs are changing some elements of the game, there always will be players who will hate it and players who will love the changes, along with the newcomers to the series. The devs mostly care that the last two are in majority.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I should clarify that the reason I hate Ubisoft has nothing to do with Heroes.

It's a personal reason. I had a huge beef with Ubisoft long before they announced they bought the M&M franchise. Like I said, their main north american office is in my city. It would be too long and complicated to list all the reasons here, but suffice to say that they have a reputation for utmost arrogance, and the guys I know who are working there do little to shake this view.

Let's just say that I was anti-Ubisoft LONG before all this 3DO going bankrupt happened. The chance of me buying anything from Ubi-shit is NIL.

[PhoenixReborn]

I've thought about it some more and I think it would be interesting as a poll. Because I don't think one person gets to decide if it's a true 'x series' game or not.

Take a look at the upcoming Fallout 3 a game I'm fairly interested in. The "fans" are pretty critical and rightfully so IMO. Same situation, new company same game. In that case I'll have to judge the final product.

In this case, heroes v, I feel there is enough there to justify it as a heroes game and I feel the same way about heroes iv even if I personally don't like it as much.

I mean might and magic 9 is still part of the series even if it wasn't so good. Why don't you disown that game when it isn't up to the prior level/story?

edit: I like arturchix's post. AI and map editor need some improvement/accessibility.

So you have a personal beef UDHO. Interesting I've never had a hatred for a specific company, just for specific games.

[Dragon Angel]

I can't resist to post my lapidary statement again :

"I think Heroes V is much more true to Heroes I and Heroes II spirit than Heroes III ever was"

Take this!


As arturchix said, on each game installement there's lovers and haters.

While I was not stricktly a Heroes III hater, and while for Heroes III it seems I am in the minority; it has always been a so-so game for me, with sub-par graphics and several bad design decisions.

On the other hand, while I recognize Heroes V glitches, I love the atmosphere, and many of the design decisions. Therefore, I find it much more fun to play Heroes V than Heroes III.


P.S.... I have still not got fully in depth with the editor, but it seems not that bad. Unpolished, and with strange behaviour sometimes, true. But I think you can still can get decent things out of it.

[Jolly Joker]

I should clarify that the reason I hate Ubisoft has nothing to do with Heroes.

It's a personal reason. I had a huge beef with Ubisoft long before they announced they bought the M&M franchise. Like I said, their main north american office is in my city. It would be too long and complicated to list all the reasons here, but suffice to say that they have a reputation for utmost arrogance, and the guys I know who are working there do little to shake this view.

Let's just say that I was anti-Ubisoft LONG before all this 3DO going bankrupt happened. The chance of me buying anything from Ubi-**** is NIL.

Ah, that's a problem, because in the end you are hurting yourself much more than you can possibly gain out of it. IF Ubisoft produces a really outstanding game (I don't say H5 is one, but I really think that ToE will be the best Heroes game ever released) you have a really bad decision to make. So my advice would be to forget about Ubisoft and just look at the developers. I mean, Ubi ist just a PUBLISHEr. You wouldn't say you don't buy, err, CBS records - would be bad with a view on the actual artists.

[Daystar]

I think the only real issue is that all the maps and things have changed. The maps were totally different in 543 AD, does that mean it wasn't earth?

[Metal Wolf]

Saying that Ubi/Nival dont care/dont listen to fans is BULL****. They're not supposed to do that! First of all, they have their own opinions about some matters - If you had the oppertunity to produce a film based on some book you've read (ahhmm..LOTR anyone?) wouldnt you have had your own vision about how to do it? Besides, they have other interests like introducing the game to new players, and yes, there is always a financial interest. I dont think this should be an issue at all when considering the quality of HOMM.

"I think Heroes V is much more true to Heroes I and Heroes II spirit than Heroes III ever was"

Take this!

Agree!

I think that H2 was the pinnacle of the series. H5 has a lot of the same good atmosphere that H2 had, imo - and that alone makes it an excellent game for me. H5 has a SOUL, H3 was the soulless one...

Same formula as H2, plus ''more'' of everything but minus the story-like atmosphere and semi-cartoonish graphics.
Grand tier 6-7th creatures which make the 1-2nd and even 3rd tier almost useless. An enormous income from the castle, which makes the gold mines secondary (and therefore exploration which's goal isnt conquering - almost useless).
I can go on, but I see that I stray from the main topic, so I'll say one more thing: The storyline of H3-H4, which many of you here praise - I think it was infantile, with the exception of a few parts, like ''Clash of the Dragons'' (and that wasnt part of the original campaigns anyway). I didnt play H4's expansions, so maybe they dont fit to this category, and I agree that H5's storyline isnt a killer as well, but imo HoF's plot much better than the ones I mentioned above.

Overall, Nival recieved not an easy project at all. People dont realize how hard it is to revive such a great serie of games, without changing too much and yet without copying the same content. Personally - I can clearly see how H5 greatly improves with time, from patch to patch, from expansion to expansion.

I dont really care WHO is doing it - I care HOW it comes out. H5 is loyal to the HOMM gamepley and feel (and as I've said before, reminds me a lot of H2) - and thats all I need.

[Kareeah Indaga]

I fail to see your point.

I'd see your point, if Ubi had gone ahead, sewn something together in a couple of months and sell it under the M&M brand to make a fast buck –

So in other words, you see it perfectly but thought it would be pleasant to take a swim with the crocodiles in denial.

But that's not the case, actually.

Actually yes, yes it is the case exactly. They released a decidedly sub-par game and left vital, much wanted features in the expansion so people had to go out and spend more money just to make the thing playable, then they slap those people in the face by releasing everything in TotE just to say, ‘Hey, you die-hard fans! Guess what! You would have got everything on our expensive coasters for half the price you paid for just the first one, if only you’d been less devoted and waited! Ha!’

Even if some people like Kareeah Indaga say it's "garbage" (I really would like to know what this assessment is based upon).

You know bloody well what it’s based on, JJ, or at least you should considering how long you’ve been here; I’ve voiced my complaints often enough. But if you’d like the list, feel free to ask.

The game has done a lot to RE-establish the name (that has suffered, let's say due to 3do's - not NWC's - shortcomings),

On the contrary, it’s done more damage than H4 ever will. H4 might have divided the fanbase but HV has shattered it.

Me, I don't want to play a game forever, no matter how good it is,

I for one would like to play a game for over an hour without wanting to throw it across the room during the packaged campaign.

Also, they are marketing the old titles as well, and every kid that doesn't know the old games and will buy a Heroes V product might be interested in obtaining a copy of the old titles –

I’m sorry, JJ; you might respect them a lot for using a cheap marketing trick, but I don’t. Good marketing doesn’t make a good game. An infinite number of commercials and an infinity squared of Heroes V posters will not make Isabel smarter, the AI useable, or the load times bearable. It boosting sales of the real Heroes games doesn’t make it one itself, any more than putting a Pepsi add in the install screen makes it soda. (And the compatibility issues between versions don’t help, either.)

Another whining thread I see.

Well, let me contribute. I find it sickening that some of the so-called "fans" of the series are nothing but real suckups in the forums whining year and half after the release of game how it sucks

Allow me to turn that around:

”Another whiner I see. I’m so sick of all these cheerleaders mindlessly advocating the biggest waste of memory since people invented spam. You could sell them a blank disk with the Heroes name on it and they’d still gush endlessly about how wonderful it was even though their sheep-brained mentality is why they’d only get the blank disk instead of insisting on a real game.”

Get it? Let me put it another way:

It is understandable that you have a differing view point; we would not be conversing now if you did not. But do try to be respectful.

(Oh, and you misused ‘suck up’—a suck up is someone who is overly differential and flattering, those of us who are not fond of Heroes V are anything but that. )

H5 has a SOUL, H3 was the soulless one...

I’m going to have to disagree with you, but as it’s based solely on your opinion I won’t argue with you about it. This, however…

The storyline of H3-H4, which many of you here praise - I think it was infantile

I find it difficult to rationalize how you can compare H3 unfavorably with H5 when the H5 plot was basically a dumbed-down version of the RoE plot with trite piled on top of cliché for good measure.

HoF being better than HV vanilla I can understand (honestly I would be concerned if it somehow managed to be worse), but Ubival’s dead heroine comparing favorably over Tawni Balfour and Gauldoth Half-Dead? I’ll believe that when I see it.

[Jolly Joker]

The problem is, the only point you have is that you - personally - want to throw the game into the bin after an hour of playing. That is too bad for you, but it seems to be a problem of yours. Others seem to see that differently.

For the rest you behave like Ubival had offended you personally by deliberately adding or leaving out exactly the features you'd die for to have or not to have.

[Avonu]

Well, I played more than just one hour - in fact I trying to return to this game after each patch realease and you know what? I still want to "throw to the bin" H5.
I waiting to TotE - maybe it a little change my mind but I don't think that this expansion cause to like H5.
Too much small bugs and "features" - especially hard navigating in undengrounds, long turns, idiot (or rather not existing) AI (like casting implosion on: round 1. own first aid tent; round 2. own unit; round 3. enemy unit), endless changing in "balance" (but they can't fix something minor like colour of border gate in campaign or other staffs), too few maps (and don't anyone tell me about community maps - they are goods, but creating lots of good maps (or adding fans maps) is also developers task - see H1-4 for example), new features from patches not working with existing features (week of..., crashing afer attacking summoned units) and waitng months for repearing intoduced bugs (check wiki for dates of patches - especially for 1.41 patch).

I can live with bad storyline or initiative system or even with this new "darker" world - but HV good hot seat or working mp mode is essential (IMO) for this series (same as lots of maps, good editor or random map generator). Not mention something minor like "no more bugs with new patches and waiting months to repearing them" (I know that there isn't chance to not introduce new bugs - but can't they be fixed in week or two?).