Ubi and Copy Protection

[ThunderTitan]

Plus there is this whole SF fiasco.

What cases are there that prove this is a fiasco? I'm getting to the point where I really do need to see some proof for these claims, as it's getting nearer to the launch and I have no more knowledge about Starfroce than I did at the begining.

No proof is needed for a fiasco to happen! The simple fact that the issues got people so rilled up is enough!

And SF did have some nasty bugs, but they claim that most of them have been fixed in the current version.
Want more knowledge, do a Google search!

[Campaigner]

Exactly.Instead of making CDs uncopiable and making them a necessary in drive while the game is played,they should simply concentrate on making the online gaming available just for legal customers.Having a CD in drive is such a pain.And what if the CD breaks?Plus there is this whole SF fiasco.And no matter what they do,games will alvays be cracked.So instead of selling CDs,they should concentrate on selling right for internet gaming.

What about singleplayer games then? I've heard your solution before and it would end in a market with only MP games.
The future may be that way, but I don't want it like that.

I don't know what the ultimate solution is this area, but the coming "Trusted Computing" might be what's needed.

And what do you think in the Warden vs Sony rootkit thing?

I think it's hilarious and sad at the same time

May Blizzard win!


About StarForce, check a certain Netherlandian nfo site sub-forum called "protection bitchin" for information on what is cracked or not.

[Thelonious]

And why should they?Its far more easier and cheaper to make a new copy protection program,than to update current one.Especially because it will soon become completely cracked and useless.

Well I don't get why they should make any new protection system, if they'd try and make programs/games cheaper, more re-playable and keep the official online play active -> like WoW from Blizzard, they wouldn't need to protect it.

Though keep in mind; Blizzard isn't the best company either, they're neglecting the other, non internet playing games now... The Diablo fans pacience is tested to the extreme, faulty patches - no info on sequels... they just don't give a damn about the game that made their name in the gaming industry. (yes this might sound a bit harsh, but on BlizzCon there were only 2 diablo references, one in the gaming museum .. and 1 huge poster)

[ThunderTitan]

And why should they?Its far more easier and cheaper to make a new copy protection program,than to update current one.Especially because it will soon become completely cracked and useless.

Well I don't get why they should make any new protection system, if they'd try and make programs/games cheaper, more re-playable and keep the official online play active -> like WoW from Blizzard, they wouldn't need to protect it.

Unofficial servers. Nuff said.

[Derek]

SF did have some nasty bugs, but they claim that most of them have been fixed in the current version.
Want more knowledge, do a Google search!

I have done searches, but nothing constitutes anything more than just urban legend or just random problems. All software has problems, that's a fact, but is SF any more dangerous is a matter that has not been proven. Again, is there any definitive proof that SF is a serious problem and should be considered dangerous?

[ThunderTitan]

SF did have some nasty bugs, but they claim that most of them have been fixed in the current version.
Want more knowledge, do a Google search!

I have done searches, but nothing constitutes anything more than just urban legend or just random problems. All software has problems, that's a fact, but is SF any more dangerous is a matter that has not been proven. Again, is there any definitive proof that SF is a serious problem and should be considered dangerous?

The thing is that SF is a rather useless program that causes some problems (Fabrice said most of them happen if you have a virtual drive). And he also said that in 0.02% (not sure about the number) cases they couldn't fix it. How would you feel if you couldn't play a game just because of a program the game does not really need?

IMO the idea behind SF is more dangerous that SF itself! As long as it doesn't burn you comp (i really doubt they would be stupid enough to do that) you can always reinstal the OS to fix whatever problem it causes.

[DaemianLucifer]

And why should they?Its far more easier and cheaper to make a new copy protection program,than to update current one.Especially because it will soon become completely cracked and useless.

Well I don't get why they should make any new protection system, if they'd try and make programs/games cheaper, more re-playable and keep the official online play active -> like WoW from Blizzard, they wouldn't need to protect it.

Here is my original post on that idea:

Just a thought:Wouldnt it be easier,cheaper and more customer friendly if instead of coppy protection programs,software is delievered and instaled personaly?So,there would be people that would carry software on cds directly to a customers house,install it and move along.All youd have to buy would be a contract.This way,theyd have nothing to worry about illegal cd copying and we wouldnt have to worry about cd damages.

And you can read the development on that issue here

[Thelonious]

Well that's require dozens of people everywhere around the world to install games, and they'll cost a lot of money.

Look at the rest of my post, that's the reason why Blizzard keeps it fans paying, and made them buy an original copy.

The Patches, ladder season, contests - that's what keep players paying for an allready (from what I've heard) addictive game.

With heroes such a thing wouldn't be hard to do, keep maps comming in, new items/artifacts/questhuts, etc. allow map makers to send in their map, set a league for players, and a league for map makers. Give good support, make sure servers are reliable and better than the crappy pirated servers (where pirated versions would have to go), make the game a good game single player wise as well, for a quick game. That'd make people want the original game as well. Would they pay for the internet side? Maybe, if the game is addictive enough.

This is a way to ensure that gamers will buy the original game. Not copy protection.

[DaemianLucifer]

Well that's require dozens of people everywhere around the world to install games, and they'll cost a lot of money.

No it wont,since they could hire a bunch of students to do it part time.

[Derek]

The thing is that SF is a rather useless program that causes some problems (Fabrice said most of them happen if you have a virtual drive). And he also said that in 0.02% (not sure about the number) cases they couldn't fix it. How would you feel if you couldn't play a game just because of a program the game does not really need?

IMO the idea behind SF is more dangerous that SF itself! As long as it doesn't burn you comp (i really doubt they would be stupid enough to do that) you can always reinstal the OS to fix whatever problem it causes.

I guess I am still looking for reports of those 0.02%. I think such problems fall under the normal spectrum for software problems. Really I don't see any problem with SF unless someone can substantiate these claims.

Also I have to chime in and say that I think Thelonious offers the best solution to this copy protection discussion. As much as I'd like to hope that random students could hand install it on my computer, it is much more feasible to think that a web based system could be developed to deliver the products. Of course this is merely hypothetical and will likely never be done.

[DaemianLucifer]

And how do you want them to substantiate their claims to you?Bring it to your house and show you?Or would you then say "Well,it might not be SF that screwed your (drivers/cd rom/hard drive/anything else) it was your (nero/virtual drive/any other program)".Oh,wait,that is exactly what the developers of SF are doing.

[Derek]

And how do you want them to substantiate their claims to you?Bring it to your house and show you?Or would you then say "Well,it might not be SF that screwed your (drivers/cd rom/hard drive/anything else) it was your (nero/virtual drive/any other program)".Oh,wait,that is exactly what the developers of SF are doing.

I would not claim that it was the (drivers/cd rom/hard drive/anything else) that caused the problems, a good program would find ways to work around those. I am merely looking for any proof that star force is indeed the threat that it is being made out to be. Any proof will suffice, and I mean any proof. If you have any please post it and I will then argue against star force as vehemently as you.

[DaemianLucifer]

I can post whatever I want,youll never believe me.There are tons of posts about starforce problems.True,most of them probably have nothing to do with starforce,or are just made up,but some are true testemonies of people that had problems because of it.So why dont you believe them?They posted their problems,you can read them if you want.

[Thelonious]

No it wont,since they could hire a bunch of students to do it part time.

Yeah, but you'll have to pay for them a longer time. Look at it this way, for you to buy a cd one million times, is cheaper than to hire a guy to act as a cd for the rest of your life, isn't it? Oh and what if you exandently remove the tiniest little file, normally, you could take your cd, and reinstall. Then you'd have to pay a guy to come and install the game again.

And yes, I dislike having to put in a CD in my PC as well. But I can live with it. Sure it would be better without, but then we could hire the game once, and then install it and get less costs...

[ThunderTitan]

I guess I am still looking for reports of those 0.02%. I think such problems fall under the normal spectrum for software problems. Really I don't see any problem with SF unless someone can substantiate these claims.

Did I not just say that Ubisoft's Fabrice Cambounet said that about the 0.02%? And that's the ones they could not fix at all! The reported ones were 0.3% out of a million or so! And those were the ones that were reported to tech support!

[Derek]

I can post whatever I want,youll never believe me.There are tons of posts about starforce problems.True,most of them probably have nothing to do with starforce,or are just made up,but some are true testemonies of people that had problems because of it.So why dont you believe them?They posted their problems,you can read them if you want.

Okay, where would I go see these testimonies?

ThunderTitan, thanks for the info. However, that number does fall into what I'd call acceptable product failure. That is a very small number, not to say it is wanted, but it can be chalked up to the normal issues that a program would have when it is released. It doesn't seem like an epidemic to me. Sorry for making you post twice.

[DaemianLucifer]

Read any of the forums made for games that use SF.I know only of splinter cell and king kong,but those arent the only ones.And yes,it is acceptable for a program that you bought and will use,not for a program that was released to check on you.

[ThunderTitan]

Read any of the forums made for games that use SF.I know only of splinter cell and king kong,but those arent the only ones.And yes,it is acceptable for a program that you bought and will use,not for a program that was released to check on you.

Also PoP: Sands of Time! And i think also Etherlords 2! All the other's i heard of weren't well known (not to me anyway).

[ThunderTitan]

Okay, where would I go see these testimonies?

ThunderTitan, thanks for the info. However, that number does fall into what I'd call acceptable product failure. That is a very small number, not to say it is wanted, but it can be chalked up to the normal issues that a program would have when it is released. It doesn't seem like an epidemic to me. Sorry for making you post twice.

Don't worry, i'm not against having a high post number!

SF was already at version 3 when Ubi's study was made, so it wasn't exactly "at release". And i never heard complains about all the other copyprotection programs out there. Anyone know if some other one actualy made a game unplayable?

Damn, i was sure i had posted this!

[DaemianLucifer]

I havent heard of any such case before starforce.Even the one that sony got sued for came somwhere at the same time as SF