1.3 Academy

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

In getting ready to start playing a map I thought I'd see what spells the wizards would start with since they are all supposed to have spells now according to the change log.

Starting Spells:

Nur: Eldrich Arrow

Faiz: Vulnerability, mass Vulnerability

Havez: None, I guess he's forgetful since he also lost his first aid tent somewheres.

Razzak: haste

Nathir: Fireball

Narxes: Fist of Wrath

Jhora: Eldrich Arrow

Galib: Cleansing. Ahem.

[-BiS]

Havez: None, I guess he's forgetful since he also lost his first aid tent somewheres.

Probably due to the massive number of gremlins he starts with. Hope they haven't changed that at least.
But his balista is not enough compensation for a nice eldricht arrow.

Well, i guess Nathir will be my main hero once i get 1.3.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Initial analysis of the "balancing" of building costs for the academy is most disappointing.

Here is a listing of the cost of building the basic academy (non upgraded creature dwellings) buildings:

Basic Academy Buildings:

Gremlin Workshop: 500 gold, 5 ore (unchanged)

Stone Parapet: 1200 gold 10 ore (unchanged)

Golem Forge: 1500 gold 5 ore 5 mercury 5 Gems (mercury and gems increased by 3 each)

Mage Tower: 2500 gold 0 ore 5Gems 10 sulfer (10 less ore to build, 10 more sulfer to build)

Alter of Wishes: 3000 gold 5 ore 10 mercury (10 less gems 10 more mercury)

Silver Pavilion: 6000 gold, 10 ore 5 sulfer, 15 crystal, 10 gems(5 more ore, 15 more crystal, 10 more gems)

Cloud Coliseum: 12000 gold, 10 wood, 10 ore, 5 gems (5 less crystal, 8000 less gold)

Library: 3000 gold 2 each rare resources

Arcane Forge: 3000 gold, 1 each all resources

Treasure Cave: 3000 gold

Mage guild (level 1): 2000 gold 5 ore 5 wood

Blacksmith: 1000 gold 5 wood

Tavern: 500 gold 5 wood

Marketplace: 500 gold 5 wood

Town Hall: 2000 gold

City Hall: 5000 gold

Capital: 10000 gold

Fort: 5000 gold 10 wood

Citadel: 5000 gold 10 ore

Castle: 5000 gold 10 ore 10 wood

The net change is 8000 less gold from the reduction of the cloud Coliseim and 5 less ore, 13 more mercury, 3 more gems, 10 more sulfer, 10 more crystal.

The academy not only cannot build the gargoyle dwellings but will struggle to build creature dwellings higher than the mage's tower due to the increased rare resource costs. Furthurmore, the increased resource costs make it difficult to build up its mages guild for the spells that it relies on.

GOW

[Sir_Toejam]

*sigh*.

Nirval must really hate mages.

OTOH, the cash costs for building necro stuff has gone down even further!

to build dragons now only costs 6K...

but also 30 wood, 30 ore, and 20 mercury.

*shrug*

[DaemianLucifer]

Well that really sucks.First they relly on resources for their race special,then for their spells and now this?Academy became almost worthless,especially after the changes from 1.2

[Rainalkar]

Well, money and ore were a big issue for academy, at least they reduced that a bit (Ore shuld have been reduced more). Other resources were a piece of cake to accumulate, and the low need for them opened a possibility for quicker mage guilds. That will obviously be harder now.
And the upgrade prices?

[asandir]

they made them more resource dependant??!!!!

oh my god, what are they thinking!!!!!!!

[Bonzer]

So I guess as long as mapmakers know this, they can make more resources available.

The only other possibility to avoid early slowdown would be to start with Havez and his band of merry gremlins, might be easier to overcome mine guards in week 1.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

OK, now for creature dwelling upgrades. I'll list only the changes.

Archmage Tower: requires 5 more crystals

Pinacle of Wishes: requires 5 less ore, 5 fewer crystals, and 5 fewer gems.

Thundercloud Castle: 18000 less gold, 10 fewer crystals.

Conclusion:

So, the wizards have trouble building their initial creature dwellings as pointed out in the first analysis, so they will have fewer troops. Their 5th, 6th, and 7th creature dwellings will all be built late.

The useful archmages are harder to get to help with early expansion, the useless djinn can die as sultans easier, and the wizards finally get a break with the cloud castle being easier to build. That will not make up for the troops they have lost because of late dwellings though.

The wizards will have only level 1 (or 2 at the most) spells for at least the first month. Higher level spells will come later. Creature artifacts will be really late.

The Academy has been dealt maybe the killing blow here. Their most important magic nerfed, the remainder of their spells hard to obtain, their base creature dwellings hard to build, and their racial special nonexistant.

How can this be balance?

GOW

[DaemianLucifer]

Well they did put the academy campaign last,and made it almost academy free,so yes,they hate the wizzards.

[Jolly Joker]

Are you all kidding now? That' s simply not true. You will be able to build Genies now pretty comfortably, while upgrading the Gremlins will be easier as well. All in all you have a pretty easy ride up to level 5 creatures - which wasn't the case until now.
Of course, upgrades are something else, but before you start getting upset you should have a look onto the others now. Upgrading has become difficult for others as well. Care to check the Sylvan dwellings? Hunter upgrade? Others?
What you miss is, that THE OTHERS HAVE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS NOW, so get real here!

[Jolly Joker]

For explanation: Dungeon is a nightmare in Crystals and Sulfur now: + 15 in EACH of them. You will have a town of Gems left, but heck. Note: Only 5 of those Crystals are for the Dragons.
Haven traded a lot of gold for a balancing in Training/Level 7 (not clear-cut anymore), but, hey, +45 precious resources, +50 Wood and + 15 Ore: none of the Wood and Ore is for the Angels, mind you.
Inferno:
Only 19000 less Gold, +20 W, but most of all, +15 S, which is a killer; try grading Cerberi up (15 W). And 3500 Gold for the basic Succubi dwelling is by far the most expensive.
Now Necro: A staggering minus in Gold: -21000, -15 in C and G, +5 in S... but hell, +30 W and a stunning + 33 Mercury. I mean, Christ. Every darn dwelling cost Merc except level 1 + upg, lvl 2 base and lvl 4 upg.
And Sylvans: Only 12000 Gold reduction. A wealth less M and S and O, but even more Crystals and Gems and a whopping 40 more Wood, 15 of those more for Hunters and their upgrades.
And you are whining about Academy who just got very balanced with less Ore and less Gems and more Merc and Sulfuir which they didn't need much before that?

[Meandor]

Are you all kidding now? That' s simply not true. You will be able to build Genies now pretty comfortably, while upgrading the Gremlins will be easier as well. All in all you have a pretty easy ride up to level 5 creatures - which wasn't the case until now.
Of course, upgrades are something else, but before you start getting upset you should have a look onto the others now. Upgrading has become difficult for others as well. Care to check the Sylvan dwellings? Hunter upgrade? Others?
What you miss is, that THE OTHERS HAVE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS NOW, so get real here!

Genies aren`t game breaking units.
Problem is that wizards relay on magic, with increased use of rare resources they`ll have hard time building mage guild and wizard without good spells is...
Another problem is their racial skill. It costs resources, usually game will end before you`ll be able to use artificer at full power while other races will use their racial skills almost from start.

[-BiS]

Reading this topic makes me feel depressed. I almost want to uninstall heroes and not play it ever again.

Why academy keeps suffering these horrible changes i can't possibly begin to understand.

[Jolly Joker]

I think, quite a few here have lost a marble or two!
Another change is, that the mage guilds have become cheaper.
THAT makes the real figures for academy This here:
-10 Ore; +5 Merc; + 2 Sulf; -10 Gems; -13 Crystals
It makes Academy QUITE stronger.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I think, quite a few here have lost a marble or two!
Another change is, that the mage guilds have become cheaper.
THAT makes the real figures for academy This here:
-10 Ore; +5 Merc; + 2 Sulf; -10 Gems; -13 Crystals
It makes Academy QUITE stronger.

It is not the upgrades so much that hurts the academy (except for the increase in the archmage upgrade (the backbone of the academy army) it is the increase in rare resource cost for the base buildings. This means fewer base creature dwelloings built quickly enough to get creature growth started and fewer early spells.

OK, mages guilds are cheaper for everyone then, not just the academy and it will help every faction that uses spells a lot. The academy is still going to only have level 1 or 2 spells (and it favors knowledge and spellpower attributes) for at least the first month and later if it wants to upgrade dwellings because of the resource cost increase of the base dwellings.

Of course the big Phantom Forces nerf hurts the academy more than anyone else and it is still a long time before the academy can use its racial special. And the academy's main spell school (summoning) is the weakest school yet it has had the biggest nerfs in the last 2 patches.

I had actually just loged on to post the reduction in cost for the level 5 mages guild (I didn't take not of levels 2-4.) The level 5 mages guild costs 5 fewer of each rare resource.

True, I have not played the other factions under the new patch and for some reason the changes are not listed for us to easily see (which is why I made this thread for the academy changes.) However, unless the base buildings of the other factions are going to be hard to build too the academy is not only still on the bottom rung of the ladder, it has been kicked off.)

GOW

[Jolly Joker]

That's rubbish.
Where have base dwellings become more expensive?
Level 1 and 2: unchanged
Golem Forge: +3 M, +3 G
Mage Tower: +10 S
Altar of W: -5 Ore; -10 G, +10 M.
That's a net gain of 5 Ore and 7 Gems while you actually need Sulfur and Mercury now (more than you start with on Heroic); this is good because it gives you time to accumulate the more needed Gems and Ore for later builds.
Taking the upgrades into considerations (which you shouldn't):
-5 Ore for Gremlin upgrade
+10 C for Archmage upgrade
This is again a gain because you again save Ore and have to pay 10 Crystals more - Crystals that aren't needed until now, I might add.
The Pinnacle of wishes upgrade saves even 5 each of Ore, Crystal and Gems.
All in all this is QUITE a bargain. You have balanced resource needs up to here now. All other dwellings like Library, Arcane Forge and Mage Guiold have balanced need as well.
Which leaves level 6 and 7 and sure as hell THEY are difficult: The Silver Pavillon has become more difficult to build, while the Cloud Cloiseum is easier.

[borco]

put your mind at ease(not sure for spelling) golems have endles retalation

[Panda Tar]

The Silver Pavillon has become more difficult to build, while the Cloud Cloiseum is easier.

Which is most comprehensible, isn't it? Having Silver Pavillion harder to get, and Pinnacle of Wishes a lot easier, makes more sense due their tier. It was usual having Rashkashaça-piñacolada (the hell of a name!) before Djinns (not that I like djinn too much. Their appearance fakes their HP ).

[Jolly Joker]

Well, yes, that's what I say. Everything makes a hell of a lot of sense, with other towns as well (even though I can hear the Necros already moaning).