This discussion thread is dedicated to HOMM4 game-play - specifically in the Nature town. This is for those who either still play HOMM4, are just getting into it thanks to the inclusion of your recent HOMM5 version, or all-time fans.
Note: Please use EQ if you are taking about Equilibris (HOMM4 players should try to play with EQ for a great change of pace).
Here are the five discussion questions:
First Question: Elves or White Tigers?
Second Question: Griffins or Unicorns?
Third Question: Which Creatures have you purchased at the Portal and why?
Fourth Question: Phoenix or Faerie Dragon?
Fifth Question: Which creatures do you prefer to Summon into a battle?
[HOMM4] Beasts of The Nature: Strategies and Tactics
[HOMM4] Beasts of The Nature: Strategies and Tactics
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If I were a flower, I'd be a really big flame-throwing flower with five heads.
If I were a flower, I'd be a really big flame-throwing flower with five heads.
1. Taking it randomly. Can get theme both wuth summoning
2. Griffins. They are fast, agile and powerful. Unicorns are for sisies
3. That strangeplant. I always forget her name. They are powerful archers and make my enmies weaker thus making my job easier. Mantises are also good and sometimes I take theme. I don't even think about other creatures (sisies)
4. Faerie Dragon.
5. I summon creatures that can best help me in battle. Mostly elementals.
2. Griffins. They are fast, agile and powerful. Unicorns are for sisies
3. That strangeplant. I always forget her name. They are powerful archers and make my enmies weaker thus making my job easier. Mantises are also good and sometimes I take theme. I don't even think about other creatures (sisies)
4. Faerie Dragon.
5. I summon creatures that can best help me in battle. Mostly elementals.
I am back and ready to... ready to... post things.
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DaemianLucifer
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Equi:
1)Elves.My philosophy is almost always always ranged over melee.
2)Thats a tough one since griffins became stronger in equi,but its something like 70% of the time I choose unicorns.
3) Mantises.The rest are just to slow to have,except for castle defenses(except for the air elementals that I dont find that powerfull,although I think twice before attacking them).
4)Faerie dragons(look no.1).
5)Leprechauns are almost always the first summon.Later its gryphons,waspworts and finally mantas(phoenixes if I dont have Mantises).
1)Elves.My philosophy is almost always always ranged over melee.
2)Thats a tough one since griffins became stronger in equi,but its something like 70% of the time I choose unicorns.
3) Mantises.The rest are just to slow to have,except for castle defenses(except for the air elementals that I dont find that powerfull,although I think twice before attacking them).
4)Faerie dragons(look no.1).
5)Leprechauns are almost always the first summon.Later its gryphons,waspworts and finally mantas(phoenixes if I dont have Mantises).
Last edited by DaemianLucifer on 29 Jun 2006, 01:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Gaidal Cain
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Mantises, Daemian, Mantises. Mantas can be taken for something else...
As for the topic, I always go for Griffins, Mantises and Fairie Dragons. I summon mostly Mantises and phoenixes if I can, but Leprechauns and Satyrs are also useful.
As for the topic, I always go for Griffins, Mantises and Fairie Dragons. I summon mostly Mantises and phoenixes if I can, but Leprechauns and Satyrs are also useful.
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Metathron
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EQ
When it comes to making creature choices, I will choose both an equal amount of time because I appreciate diversity when playing HoMM, and any game for that matter. The only creature I confess to choosing an overwhelming amount of times is the cyclops, not because the ogre magi are that bad (casting snake strike and/or bloodlust on the behemoths, thunderbirds, or even themselves, is a big plus) but because the cyclops is just that good.
1) None of them is 'better' than the other per se, they just serve different tactics and purposes. If I'm facing sluggish walkers, I'd rather I have the elves, if fast flyers, the elves will get blocked on the second turn at the latest and the tigers would really shine through in such a situation. It's all relative.
2) Both are great units. The griffins become superior and freakishly strong when you a) have them in large numbers b) have snake strike cast on them and c) one of your heroes is a tactician with a high proficiency in offense, in which case they'll be able to plunge headlong into battle, not having to worry about taking damage from most opponents. The unicorn's blind ability kicks in a nice percentage of the time, and they're a fine, sturdy unit, made a little stronger in equilibris.
3) I will usually go for one of the following: fire elemental, mantis, water elementals. The first are a welcome pick if you chose the tigers over the elves earlier, so the ranged firepower is quite welcome. Plus they look cool and play well, being a pretty strong shooter. The second are just a great unit to have, whatever the circumstance, but I'll pick them at times if I picked the elves and fairies, just cause I'll be looking for some raw melee power. The third is a great unit because it gives you a spellcaster, which the nature town may lack if the fairy dragons are not picked.
4) Again, it's both equally for me. The dragon may be easier to wield, since you hold them in the rear and cast spells, but the phoenix is a strong and fast flyer in and of itself, can be further augmented by buffing nature magic spells, and wreak havoc on the battlefield with their considerable abilities.
5) Early on, I'll go for the Summon leprechaun spell, to cast fortune on my sprites or wolves, and use them as fodder. I'll sometimes cast s. sprites/wolves to use up retaliations. S. air elemental is good if you want to block a shooter, and if an enemy is close up to my units, I'll even go for s. earth elementals, as they're the hardiest of the elementals bunch. The level 5 summons are all great, with perhaps s. mantis being the best on account of the bind ability, which enables you to keep unwanted creatures from swarming your hero or precious stacks.
When it comes to making creature choices, I will choose both an equal amount of time because I appreciate diversity when playing HoMM, and any game for that matter. The only creature I confess to choosing an overwhelming amount of times is the cyclops, not because the ogre magi are that bad (casting snake strike and/or bloodlust on the behemoths, thunderbirds, or even themselves, is a big plus) but because the cyclops is just that good.
1) None of them is 'better' than the other per se, they just serve different tactics and purposes. If I'm facing sluggish walkers, I'd rather I have the elves, if fast flyers, the elves will get blocked on the second turn at the latest and the tigers would really shine through in such a situation. It's all relative.
2) Both are great units. The griffins become superior and freakishly strong when you a) have them in large numbers b) have snake strike cast on them and c) one of your heroes is a tactician with a high proficiency in offense, in which case they'll be able to plunge headlong into battle, not having to worry about taking damage from most opponents. The unicorn's blind ability kicks in a nice percentage of the time, and they're a fine, sturdy unit, made a little stronger in equilibris.
3) I will usually go for one of the following: fire elemental, mantis, water elementals. The first are a welcome pick if you chose the tigers over the elves earlier, so the ranged firepower is quite welcome. Plus they look cool and play well, being a pretty strong shooter. The second are just a great unit to have, whatever the circumstance, but I'll pick them at times if I picked the elves and fairies, just cause I'll be looking for some raw melee power. The third is a great unit because it gives you a spellcaster, which the nature town may lack if the fairy dragons are not picked.
4) Again, it's both equally for me. The dragon may be easier to wield, since you hold them in the rear and cast spells, but the phoenix is a strong and fast flyer in and of itself, can be further augmented by buffing nature magic spells, and wreak havoc on the battlefield with their considerable abilities.
5) Early on, I'll go for the Summon leprechaun spell, to cast fortune on my sprites or wolves, and use them as fodder. I'll sometimes cast s. sprites/wolves to use up retaliations. S. air elemental is good if you want to block a shooter, and if an enemy is close up to my units, I'll even go for s. earth elementals, as they're the hardiest of the elementals bunch. The level 5 summons are all great, with perhaps s. mantis being the best on account of the bind ability, which enables you to keep unwanted creatures from swarming your hero or precious stacks.
If I am not mistaken, griffins are actually downgraded a bit in Equilibris, when it comes to their attack/defense ratings. What was changed for the better is that the citadel, the prerequisite for the griffin dwelling becomes considerably cheaper to construct.Daemian Lucifer wrote:2)Thats a tough one since griffins became stronger in equi,but its something like 70% of the time I choose unicorns.
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DaemianLucifer
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Yes,I know that.I have no idea why I misspelled it twice though.Gaidal Cain wrote:Mantises, Daemian, Mantises. Mantas can be taken for something else...
1) It pretty much depends on what building I can build with given resources. If I have a choice, I usually go for the Elves.
2) Unicorns, so that I don't have to buy Citadel.
3) I buy almost exclusively Water Elementals, because their spells make them extremely strong. Once in a while I might buy a single Mantis to boost the movement rate, but otherwise it is WEs all the way.
4) Faerie Dragon. Once again, the spells rule the choice.
5) Not surprisingly, Water Elementals. Sometimes supported by a stack of Satyrs (for morale) and Leprechauns (for luck and fodder).
2) Unicorns, so that I don't have to buy Citadel.
3) I buy almost exclusively Water Elementals, because their spells make them extremely strong. Once in a while I might buy a single Mantis to boost the movement rate, but otherwise it is WEs all the way.
4) Faerie Dragon. Once again, the spells rule the choice.
5) Not surprisingly, Water Elementals. Sometimes supported by a stack of Satyrs (for morale) and Leprechauns (for luck and fodder).
1) Like i always choose: white tigers... (i always test who is stronger, and choose this one... 
)
2) Griffins, they stronger then unicorn, and always attack back when someone attack him (griffin).
3) I with Sauron.
4)Phoenix, he much stronger then faerie dragon, and when he dead so he come back to 1/2 live... i forgot how it called...
5) I summon creatures, faerie dragon... he the strong of summon, and the elementals when the spells are going down... 
)2) Griffins, they stronger then unicorn, and always attack back when someone attack him (griffin).
3) I with Sauron.
4)Phoenix, he much stronger then faerie dragon, and when he dead so he come back to 1/2 live... i forgot how it called...
5) I summon creatures, faerie dragon...
he the strong of summon, and the elementals when the spells are going down... Black Dragon...
I almost agree with everything, sometimes I do go with phoenixes instead of faerie dragons, but that was the only difference.pepak wrote:1) It pretty much depends on what building I can build with given resources. If I have a choice, I usually go for the Elves.
2) Unicorns, so that I don't have to buy Citadel.
3) I buy almost exclusively Water Elementals, because their spells make them extremely strong. Once in a while I might buy a single Mantis to boost the movement rate, but otherwise it is WEs all the way.
4) Faerie Dragon. Once again, the spells rule the choice.
5) Not surprisingly, Water Elementals. Sometimes supported by a stack of Satyrs (for morale) and Leprechauns (for luck and fodder).
1. Elves, if I can get the ressources required.
2. Griffins, if ressource rich map, or I have the ressources+gold for citadel ande dwelling. Otherwise I settle for Unicorns.
3. Water Elementals or Mantises.
4. Fairie Dragons. Like Water Elementals they have very powerful spells.
5. Depends on situation. Leprechaun, Satyr, Water Elementals, Fairie Dragons and Mantises are all nice aditions. If Mantises are not available I have used Unicorns sometimes.
2. Griffins, if ressource rich map, or I have the ressources+gold for citadel ande dwelling. Otherwise I settle for Unicorns.
3. Water Elementals or Mantises.
4. Fairie Dragons. Like Water Elementals they have very powerful spells.
5. Depends on situation. Leprechaun, Satyr, Water Elementals, Fairie Dragons and Mantises are all nice aditions. If Mantises are not available I have used Unicorns sometimes.
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Milla aka. the Slayer
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I use EQ (and highly recommend it 
)
1. I like the elves. They die easily and I have to have a large number of them to really make them strong but I still prefer them to the white tigers. The tigers are not worth the trouble IMO. They never do me any good and generally I just prefer shooters over walkers
2. Whenever I purchase unicorns I'm happily surprised by their strength and stamina
I do choose griffins too sometimes but not so often cause I hate that I have to buy the citadel first. The rainbow is so much cheaper. With EQ of course the citadel is a cheaper buy but somehow my mind still thinks I don't have EQ
3. Waspworps: cause they're great shooters (strong too) and come in large quantities. Also their abilities in melee fights are not too shabby either compared to other shooters. Fire elementals: They're the best elementals IMO.
4. I definitely prefer the Faerie Dragon because it has the ability to do magic mirror which can be a life saver when in battle with i.e. order magic armies who use mind spells.
5. Waspworps cause of their ability to slay a large number of enemies quickly I summon Mantises too if I'm outnumbered cause they can bind the enemy and they're not easily killed.
)1. I like the elves. They die easily and I have to have a large number of them to really make them strong but I still prefer them to the white tigers. The tigers are not worth the trouble IMO. They never do me any good and generally I just prefer shooters over walkers
2. Whenever I purchase unicorns I'm happily surprised by their strength and stamina
I do choose griffins too sometimes but not so often cause I hate that I have to buy the citadel first. The rainbow is so much cheaper. With EQ of course the citadel is a cheaper buy but somehow my mind still thinks I don't have EQ 3. Waspworps: cause they're great shooters (strong too) and come in large quantities. Also their abilities in melee fights are not too shabby either compared to other shooters. Fire elementals: They're the best elementals IMO.
4. I definitely prefer the Faerie Dragon because it has the ability to do magic mirror which can be a life saver when in battle with i.e. order magic armies who use mind spells.
5. Waspworps cause of their ability to slay a large number of enemies quickly
I summon Mantises too if I'm outnumbered cause they can bind the enemy and they're not easily killed.This minor magical charm captures the viewer's attention and distra... ooo, pretty...
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Le_Faucheur
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1:white tigers because it's cheaper
2:unicorn for the same reason,moreover they are stronger than griffins.
sometimes griffins if I get snake stike or first strike.
3:mantises:fast,first strike and binding... I also like waspworts but they are too slow on adventure map...
4:phoenix.at the end of the game when you have a good tactician,faerie dragons do far less damages than phoenix...
5:depends on the enemy,leprechaun and satyr to buff my army,air elemental/phoenix against shooters(also earth elemental to protect heroes),griffins against small armies to end fastly,water elemental,mantises,unicorn,waspwort against walkers,mantises and unicorn against flyers
2:unicorn for the same reason,moreover they are stronger than griffins.
sometimes griffins if I get snake stike or first strike.
3:mantises:fast,first strike and binding... I also like waspworts but they are too slow on adventure map...
4:phoenix.at the end of the game when you have a good tactician,faerie dragons do far less damages than phoenix...
5:depends on the enemy,leprechaun and satyr to buff my army,air elemental/phoenix against shooters(also earth elemental to protect heroes),griffins against small armies to end fastly,water elemental,mantises,unicorn,waspwort against walkers,mantises and unicorn against flyers
Re: [HOMM4] Beasts of The Nature: Strategies and Tactics
1. I always went with elves. Get some shooting going on.
2. Griffins. Those retaliations have gotten me out of a bind a number of times.
3. Mostly Mantises, sometimes water elementals.
4. Faerie Dragons.
5. The most powerful that is available and will still leave me with some spell points.
2. Griffins. Those retaliations have gotten me out of a bind a number of times.
3. Mostly Mantises, sometimes water elementals.
4. Faerie Dragons.
5. The most powerful that is available and will still leave me with some spell points.
Simmons: I think you’re asking me if these computers store all the data on Red and Blue armies?
Sarge: Control Alt Bingo.
Sarge: Control Alt Bingo.
1. White tigers.
Stronger, faster and more versatile in combat. Better looking than elves as well.
2. Unicorns.
For tech reasons only.
If lvl3 units are actually used and are a major factor, I’ll go for griffins.
3. Mantii. Nature’s special weapon. Imo the best lvl4 unit of the game.
4. depends. I think both are good. If I have a tactician, definately phoenix since I think the boons go to waste for a good part on faerie dragons.
5. 1 leprechauns. 2 satyrs. 3 water elementals. 4 faerie dragons. In order of most cast.
Stronger, faster and more versatile in combat. Better looking than elves as well.
2. Unicorns.
For tech reasons only.
If lvl3 units are actually used and are a major factor, I’ll go for griffins.
3. Mantii. Nature’s special weapon. Imo the best lvl4 unit of the game.
4. depends. I think both are good. If I have a tactician, definately phoenix since I think the boons go to waste for a good part on faerie dragons.
5. 1 leprechauns. 2 satyrs. 3 water elementals. 4 faerie dragons. In order of most cast.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
I disagree on points 3 and 4. Water Elementals are great, but they're slow and you only need one on the battlefield anyway (or multiple single stacks). I'd buy them one week, then switch to Mantii. As for Faerie Dragons, they're also devastating creatures, but a bit too many creatures are immune to Confusion that I'd pick Phoenixes if I have the choice.pepak wrote:1) It pretty much depends on what building I can build with given resources. If I have a choice, I usually go for the Elves.
2) Unicorns, so that I don't have to buy Citadel.
3) I buy almost exclusively Water Elementals, because their spells make them extremely strong. Once in a while I might buy a single Mantis to boost the movement rate, but otherwise it is WEs all the way.
4) Faerie Dragon. Once again, the spells rule the choice.
5) Not surprisingly, Water Elementals. Sometimes supported by a stack of Satyrs (for morale) and Leprechauns (for luck and fodder).
As for point 5, I'd think the situation warrants everything. If the opponents are large stacks of Behemoths than Water Elementals are the obvious choice, but otherwise it might be far wiser to summon Leprechauns or Phoenixes (their Rebirth gives them the unique ability to strike twice before they all die). There isn't any real candidate for best, though spells like Summon Unicorn or Summon White Tigers quickly lose their usefulness.
That's hardly ever an issue for me, given that I rarely bring any creatures with me. But if I do, I prefer to have a number of WEs than a number of anything else - if for no other reason then because WEs allow even a L1 hero to win against many armies, unlike e.g. Mantises.Banedon wrote:Water Elementals are great, but they're slow and you only need one on the battlefield anyway (or multiple single stacks).
If there are certain dwellings present, if I'm given 50 wood on the first day in a script, if I have certain buildings already there, etc. some of my choices are made for me. Otherwise I now adopt more of a speed strategy, both in building and in movement.
In general I usually try to use these lineups:
W/O EQ: White Tigers, Unicorns, Phoenix
W/ EQ: Elves, Griffins, Phoenix
Portal: Main creature is Mantis (or Air Elemental if their are no gems) and until main heroes get to LVL 10 I use Water Elemental single stacks for quicksand.
Summoned: Leprechaun, Satyr, Water Elemental, Wasport, Any Lvl 5 Creature
Equilibris Changed the following in Nature:
See the changes HERE
CREATURE SUMMONING
B-A-E-M-GM Summoning summons 7-14-21-28-42 XP (+10 XP for Summoner adv/ class + 10 XP for Druid's chain) of creatures respectively + 15% per level. Necromancy and Sumoning got new menu (invoked by ALT-E). Creatures are selected from all creatures from 1-st to 3-th level. Summoning skill now allows to chose creatures to summon (including option "Summon none").
SPELLS
Quicksand - lifted from 2nd to 3rd level.
CREATURE STATS
Satyr: Spell Points 8 (was 6)
Unicorn: Hit Points 85
Waspwort: Move 12 (was 8)
Phoenix: Spell Points 14 (was 12)
Sprite experience is lifted to 10 (was 7), and its Growth rate lowered to 16 (was 23)
Wolf experience is lowered to 9 (was 11), and its Growth rate lifted to 17 (was 16)
Air Elemental experience is lifted to 77 (was 74).
Earth Elemental experience is lowered to 65 (was 77).
Fire Elemental experience is lowered to 72 (was 75).
Water Elemental experience is raised to 90 (was 73).
CREATURE ABILITIES
Wasport's Weakness now working on undead, mechanics and elementals. (Before this bugfix only heroes with corresponding magic skill could cast Weakness on undead, mechanics and elementals)
Chance of Unicorn's Blinding increased from 30% to 40%. Description changed to reflect the change.
Added Teleport ability to Earth Elementals - they can move under the ground and ignore quicksand and other obstacles (which are ON the ground, not UNDER the ground). Description changed to reflect the change.
Added Negate First Strike ability to Air Elementals. Description changed to reflect the change.
TOWN CHANGES
Ranger's Guild: gold 3500, wood 5 (was 20), ore 10 (was 0).
Pire now requires Conservatory of Life instead of Creature Portal.
Blacksmith: Potion of Immortality, Potion of Restoration, Potion of Toughness, Potion of Strength, Vial of Acid, Longbow, Leather, Shield, Mage stuff
COMMON CHANGES
Spellcaster ability lets creatures cast mass spells starting from stack number of 5 weekly growths.
Citadel: Gold 3000 (was 7500), wood 5 (was 10), ore 5 (was 10).
Castle: Gold 4500 (was 7500), wood 10, ore 10.
Caravan: gold 3000 (was 4000), wood 10, ore 2 (was 0).
In general I usually try to use these lineups:
W/O EQ: White Tigers, Unicorns, Phoenix
W/ EQ: Elves, Griffins, Phoenix
Portal: Main creature is Mantis (or Air Elemental if their are no gems) and until main heroes get to LVL 10 I use Water Elemental single stacks for quicksand.
Summoned: Leprechaun, Satyr, Water Elemental, Wasport, Any Lvl 5 Creature
Equilibris Changed the following in Nature:
See the changes HERE
CREATURE SUMMONING
B-A-E-M-GM Summoning summons 7-14-21-28-42 XP (+10 XP for Summoner adv/ class + 10 XP for Druid's chain) of creatures respectively + 15% per level. Necromancy and Sumoning got new menu (invoked by ALT-E). Creatures are selected from all creatures from 1-st to 3-th level. Summoning skill now allows to chose creatures to summon (including option "Summon none").
SPELLS
Quicksand - lifted from 2nd to 3rd level.
CREATURE STATS
Satyr: Spell Points 8 (was 6)
Unicorn: Hit Points 85
Waspwort: Move 12 (was 8)
Phoenix: Spell Points 14 (was 12)
Sprite experience is lifted to 10 (was 7), and its Growth rate lowered to 16 (was 23)
Wolf experience is lowered to 9 (was 11), and its Growth rate lifted to 17 (was 16)
Air Elemental experience is lifted to 77 (was 74).
Earth Elemental experience is lowered to 65 (was 77).
Fire Elemental experience is lowered to 72 (was 75).
Water Elemental experience is raised to 90 (was 73).
CREATURE ABILITIES
Wasport's Weakness now working on undead, mechanics and elementals. (Before this bugfix only heroes with corresponding magic skill could cast Weakness on undead, mechanics and elementals)
Chance of Unicorn's Blinding increased from 30% to 40%. Description changed to reflect the change.
Added Teleport ability to Earth Elementals - they can move under the ground and ignore quicksand and other obstacles (which are ON the ground, not UNDER the ground). Description changed to reflect the change.
Added Negate First Strike ability to Air Elementals. Description changed to reflect the change.
TOWN CHANGES
Ranger's Guild: gold 3500, wood 5 (was 20), ore 10 (was 0).
Pire now requires Conservatory of Life instead of Creature Portal.
Blacksmith: Potion of Immortality, Potion of Restoration, Potion of Toughness, Potion of Strength, Vial of Acid, Longbow, Leather, Shield, Mage stuff
COMMON CHANGES
Spellcaster ability lets creatures cast mass spells starting from stack number of 5 weekly growths.
Citadel: Gold 3000 (was 7500), wood 5 (was 10), ore 5 (was 10).
Castle: Gold 4500 (was 7500), wood 10, ore 10.
Caravan: gold 3000 (was 4000), wood 10, ore 2 (was 0).
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If I were a flower, I'd be a really big flame-throwing flower with five heads.
If I were a flower, I'd be a really big flame-throwing flower with five heads.
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Le_Faucheur
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How can Water Elementals allow a level 1 hero to beat any army? Even with Fatigue, the level 1 hero cannot run forever, and then you'd also need to have Poison or a similar spell to force a win. With Nature not aligned to Death, it doesn't seem possible to me.That's hardly ever an issue for me, given that I rarely bring any creatures with me. But if I do, I prefer to have a number of WEs than a number of anything else - if for no other reason then because WEs allow even a L1 hero to win against many armies, unlike e.g. Mantises.
Ah, but if you have both Summon Phoenixes / Mantii and Summon Unicorns and can only cast one, which would you pick?I don't agree about summon unicorn,it's a pretty strong spell,and they are very useful because of the blinding hability!
Fatigue, Quicksand, Ice Bolt.Banedon wrote: How can Water Elementals allow a level 1 hero to beat any army? Even with Fatigue, the level 1 hero cannot run forever, and then you'd also need to have Poison or a similar spell to force a win. With Nature not aligned to Death, it doesn't seem possible to me.
Deadly combination against any walkers... of course not quite so good against shooters or flyers.
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