Heroes V Lore Discussion *Spoiler*

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 27 Jun 2006, 14:03

Sikon wrote:How about a novelization?

That would be more like an essay.

Sikon · Unread postby **Sikon** » 28 Jun 2006, 05:28

Actually, no - if you write in all the thoughts, characterizations and motivations and fill the gaps, it will be quite long.

Odolwa · Unread postby **Odolwa** » 28 Jun 2006, 20:13

While we're on it:

Did the Demon Sovereign die or not? It was never really made clear to me what happened.
But if he survived, the last mission would be kinda pointless.

And was the Demon Messiah actually born? Kha-Beleth said "I already have the child, you can have the woman".
This is even more confusing since Findan says "She has given birth to the Demon Messiah", but according to the text, he says: "She will give birth to the Demon Messiah".

Can someone please help me out of this confusion?

The campaigns are really strange sometimes.

Xsi · Unread postby **Xsi** » 28 Jun 2006, 20:43

Odolwa wrote:
Can someone please help me out of this confusion?
The campaigns are really strange sometimes.

no but I'll add to it:

Any chance that this demon messiah is the dark messiah of that new game coming up?

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 28 Jun 2006, 20:57

Xsi wrote:
Odolwa wrote:
Can someone please help me out of this confusion?
The campaigns are really strange sometimes.
no but I'll add to it:

Any chance that this demon messiah is the dark messiah of that new game coming up?

He is. They are the same person. If I remember correctly, DM will happen about 20 years after events in H5. Enough time for Dark/Demon Mesiah to become a demon cultist.

sylvanllewelyn · Unread postby **sylvanllewelyn** » 29 Jun 2006, 00:00

I can see slight translation errors, but confusing whether the demon-child will be born, or already born is not "slight". I'm guessing the child was already born, because if the demon-child is not born yet, the heroes could've killed Isabel and her child right there on the spot.

So yes, it is a sad ending.

Omega_Destroyer · Unread postby **Omega_Destroyer** » 29 Jun 2006, 00:16

I'd say more lame than sad, but that's just my two cents. The almost total lack of character development made it hard to feel any connection to any of the characters.

Even an ending where everyone was oddly crushed by a giant robot falling on them, like the rare Futurama game, would have been much more entertaining in my opinion.

Bandobras Took · Unread postby **Bandobras Took** » 29 Jun 2006, 02:56

Omega_Destroyer wrote:I'd say more lame than sad, but that's just my two cents. The almost total lack of character development made it hard to feel any connection to any of the characters.

Even an ending where everyone was oddly crushed by a giant robot falling on them, like the rare Futurama game, would have been much more entertaining in my opinion.

That would have made for an astonishing Forge Town-based expansion . . .

I'd say that to make the characters deeper:

1) Agrael needs to be more of a presence in the first campaign, and we need to witness him doing some really evil things. As it stands, his conversion doesn't mean that much.

2) We need persistent and consistent Isabel perspective through all the Campaigns. If she's a focal character, writing her out for 80% of it isn't the best choice.

3) Findan doesn't do anything but what his king tells him to, and we end up knowing more about Alaron than we do about Findan. Give Findan original thoughts. Have him take the King to task, not the other way around.

4) Have Raelag figure out who Shayda is at the end of the Dungeon Campaign, at let him vs. her be the final battle.

5) Concordant with number four, we need to see the process by which Isabel becomes the Sovereign's loyal servant. Having her kidnapped and then all of a sudden being a Demon-lover doesn't do much in the way of character development. I'd rather see her going to Sheogh willingly.

Those are what I've thought of off the top of my head; there are undoubtedly others.

vicheron · Unread postby **vicheron** » 29 Jun 2006, 04:23

I would develop Agrael’s sick obsession with Isabel. Since we have no idea who Agrael was disguised as when he was spying on Isabel and what his relationship with her was like, he might as well be a stalker. Have Agrael kill off all of Isabel’s loved ones, raid her home, steal her possessions, and seek out spells and artifacts that could be used to mind control Isabel. After Agrael becomes a Dark Elf, have him slowly regain his sanity and come to the realization that not only is there no possible way that Isabel could love him but that his obsession with her was completely irrational.

I would also change Markal’s plans to get revenge on the Wizards. Necros have a habit of plotting out elaborate schemes for vengeance that end up humbling their enemy. A fitting revenge against the Wizards would be to raid the tombs of their ancestors, stealing all their arcane knowledge and artifacts, and raising the dead ancestors as Liches.

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 29 Jun 2006, 08:36

I'd first give Isabel more maps with actual story in it. I mean, we have something that at least resembles characterization in map 1, but map 2 or 3 doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with her, or anything else. They're just filler. Map 4 is a bit better, but not much. Map 5 is good enough. The rest of the campaigns are generally better, with each map having some sort of purpose.

Also, throughout the campaigns, they have the bad habit of introducing chracters that are seemingly importnat figures for the main characters, and then they are just allowed to disappear, until they suddenly become the focus of the tory. Freyda is such a character. Biara is another. One could even say that Isabel is such a character- the time between Nicolais death and her meeting Markal would be a perfect time to develop her as a character and make her much more believeable later, but instead, all we get is some small narration by Markal of what she's up to.

koganei83 · Unread postby **koganei83** » 03 Jul 2006, 09:33

till now, I still cant get the reason why Agreal is so obsessed with Isabel.. She isn't even pretty...

Omega_Destroyer · Unread postby **Omega_Destroyer** » 03 Jul 2006, 13:21

Clearly he likes her for her personality...

Sikon · Unread postby **Sikon** » 03 Jul 2006, 14:42

till now, I still cant get the reason why Agreal is so obsessed with Isabel.. She isn't even pretty...

Well, she is quite attractive. Xena-style. Plus, seeing so many naked female dark elves in his life, he may have acquired an affection for armored women...

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:03

koganei83 wrote:till now, I still cant get the reason why Agreal is so obsessed with Isabel.. She isn't even pretty...

Well she is a queen,and a queen is always attractive.If not because of her looks,then because of the power.

Odolwa · Unread postby **Odolwa** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:15

DaemianLucifer wrote:Well she is a queen,and a queen is always attractive.If not because of her looks,then because of the power.

But he fell in love with her before she became the Queen.
Remember he was the Demon Sovereign's agent in the Griffin Empire, and saw her grow up from birth.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:18

Odolwa wrote: But he fell in love with her before she became the Queen.
Remember he was the Demon Sovereign's agent in the Griffin Empire, and saw her grow up from birth.

But he knew she will be the queen,and we dont actually know if he fell in love before or after.

Odolwa · Unread postby **Odolwa** » 03 Jul 2006, 15:28

DaemianLucifer wrote:But he knew she will be the queen,and we dont actually know if he fell in love before or after.

True, we don't know when he fell in love.

But I doubt Agrael knew from the start that Isabel would become the Queen.
When Tieru asked why Agrael was sent by Kha-Beleth as an agent with the mission to watch over her, he answered: "He never said. He must have foreseen that she would become the Queen of the Griffin Empire".

In other words, the marriage seem to have been decided quite recently.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 03 Jul 2006, 18:52

He must have fell for her alpha/beta look. Man, that was pretty.

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 03 Jul 2006, 21:31

ThunderTitan wrote:He must have fell for her alpha/beta look. Man, that was pretty.

Yeah she was gorgeous, but heck since shes a crazy biiiatch now, Im glad she dont look so good. if she have I would be disappointed on how she treated her people, soldiers and allies. She can just stay as ugly as she wants for all I care....

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 03 Jul 2006, 21:35

Orfinn wrote: I would be disappointed on how she treated her people, soldiers and allies.

That might have actualy improved the storyline. The only thing they make you feel right now is sheer boredom.

Now someone post a pics of the beta Isabel.

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