Heroes V Lore Discussion *Spoiler*

[Odolwa]

I have just finished the game, and it raised quite some questions for me.
It was maybe not quite the end I was hoping, but I guess it ended this way in order to give space for a future expansion

It's my hope that this thread will prove to be a good place for discussions of different lore aspects of the game.
It's a huge universe, with much to talk about.
Feel free to ask anything you want.

I will start by asking some questions, that I'm sure some of you lore-experts will be able to answer.

1. What motive did Agrael have when he killed Nicolai?

2. As I understand, Raelag and Agrael are the same being. But which of his forms is his true identity?
I have come to the conclusion that it probably is Raelag, since it was impossible for Nicolai to banish Agrael back to Sheogh when he used the Heart of the Griffin.
I would gladly have this confirmed though.

3. Why wasn't Zehir succesfull in his attempt to purge Isabel after the battle with Kha-Beleth?

4. Is Isabel now truly evil, or do any of you have the belief that she can be cured of the taint?
I must say that I think she is too far gone in the corruption process though.

Okey, this was some of my questions, but I will surely come up with more later on.
And everyone, please raise your own questions aswell. It will make us all wiser!

[Akul]

1. I don't know. Perhaps because Nicolai was the king and Agrael was in war with him?

2. His true name is probably Agrael. But you can imagine reactions which Godric, Findan and Zehir would have if they knew who he actualy was? Also, Agrael probably wanted to start a new life and to start a new life you need to change the name.

[DaemianLucifer]

1.Mostly because he was ordered to by the demon soverign,but also because of his feelings towards isabel.
2.He is probably a dark elf,but wheter his name is agrael or raleag it doesnt matter.But at least he couldve pciked a better name when he "changed his race".

[Bandobras Took]

I have just finished the game, and it raised quite some questions for me.
It was maybe not quite the end I was hoping, but I guess it ended this way in order to give space for a future expansion

These are my opinions, not certain fact. But here goes:

1. What motive did Agrael have when he killed Nicolai?

Agrael was obsessed with Isabel and still under the Demon Sovereign's influence (Tieru had to purge this influence from him in the Inferno Campaign). Isabel was going to marry Nicolai. Agrael wanted Isabel for himself, and therefore killed Nicolai as an obstacle: "Things just got simpler" is his comment. Obviously, killing her fiancé wasn't going to endear him to her, though, hence, "and a lot more complicated."

2. As I understand, Raelag and Agrael are the same being. But which of his forms is his true identity?
I have come to the conclusion that it probably is Raelag, since it was impossible for Nicolai to banish Agrael back to Sheogh when he used the Heart of the Griffin.
I would gladly have this confirmed though.

As far as I can tell, he used to be a member of the Soulscar clan. There are enough implications of that in the Dungeon Campaign. It's equally evident that, once purged to the Sovereign's influence, he bears them no love. This would suggest to my mind that it was initially not his choice to be given to the Sovereign, but rather that he was offered as some sort of sacrifice/tribute. Possibly at an early age.

3. Why wasn't Zehir succesfull in his attempt to purge Isabel after the battle with Kha-Beleth?

Tieru in the Inferno Campaign says that the Rite of True Nature (which I assume is what was to be used on Isabel) cannot be interrupted. He does not mention the effects of such an interruption as Biara accomplished. It is possible that the ritual must finish or it is permanently ruined. But that's mainly inferential; the end of the campaigns is more than a little confusing and underwritten.

4. Is Isabel now truly evil, or do any of you have the belief that she can be cured of the taint?
I must say that I think she is too far gone in the corruption process though.

What do you mean, "now?" She starts off the campaign by mowing down any peasants that won't follow her. Hardly a noble and auspicious beginning. She also says in the Necromancer Campaign that "this shouldn't be so easy" for her to reject the doctrine of the Church of Elrath, but that doesn't change the fact that she does. My personal opinion is that she never really got scope enough to show her nature. Godric reminds her as he pulls her out of the chapel that she is not queen yet, and her response is, "I should be." This would indicate that the marriage was partially fueled by ambition. Isabel was never quite "good."

Now, here's a question of my own:

Given what we know about Markal and Fiona, are we entirely sure that he's Alexei's son and not Markal's?

[Gaidal Cain]

As far as I can tell, he used to be a member of the Soulscar clan. There are enough implications of that in the Dungeon Campaign. It's equally evident that, once purged to the Sovereign's influence, he bears them no love. This would suggest to my mind that it was initially not his choice to be given to the Sovereign, but rather that he was offered as some sort of sacrifice/tribute. Possibly at an early age.

I'd rather say that he simply changed his perspective of things. "What can change the nature of a Dark Elf?" and all that jazz.

Given what we know about Markal and Fiona, are we entirely sure that he's Alexei's son and not Markal's?

Somehow, that doesn't seem quite in charcter with Markal. He's a scheming b*****d, yes, but his sway over females isn't that of that type of a a seducer.

Further, this thread also contains some discussion of the overall plot.

[Odolwa]

What do you mean, "now?" She starts off the campaign by mowing down any peasants that won't follow her. Hardly a noble and auspicious beginning. She also says in the Necromancer Campaign that "this shouldn't be so easy" for her to reject the doctrine of the Church of Elrath, but that doesn't change the fact that she does. My personal opinion is that she never really got scope enough to show her nature. Godric reminds her as he pulls her out of the chapel that she is not queen yet, and her response is, "I should be." This would indicate that the marriage was partially fueled by ambition. Isabel was never quite "good."

Just my thoughts, I have never liked her either.
Was quite disappointed that she was allowed to live after all the ill acts she's been commiting throughout the champaigns.

And actually Godric says: "You are no warrior" when he drags her out from the chapel.

[wolf8t8t]

agrael raleag what do they have in common? Just mix around the letters and boom! instant new name. I thought it was stupid when I first started playing the warlock campaign.

[Sikon]

Nobody likes Isabel . She's not the most noble being in the universe, indeed, but I believe many people would do even more terrible things in her situation.

The ending also left me slightly clueless. If Zehir failed to cleanse Isabel, he would at least try to isolate her, not allow her to return to the Empire. Maybe he did succeed in cleansing Isabel, but not her unborn child. In any case, we'll find out someday.

[DaemianLucifer]

Nobody likes Isabel . She's not the most noble being in the universe, indeed, but I believe many people would do even more terrible things in her situation.

And some would do even better in worse situations.Remember emilia?

[Sikon]

Emilia didn't have her love killed by a demon lord.
Emilia was a queen approved by her people. Isabel was named queen by Nicolai, and many disagreed with this decision, starting with generally-so-loyal Godric.
Magnus wasn't out to get her, he only needed her kingdom. Therefore, Emilia could give up fighting, and she did; Isabel couldn't.

[vicheron]

Emilia survived the destruction of an entire planet.

[DaemianLucifer]

I said not the same situation,but worse:

Isabel was raised a noble,while emilia was a commoner.And emilia had all her loved ones,family and friends killed during the reconing.Somehow loosing everyone you know seems a lot worse then loosing just a husband.

[Sikon]

Emilia survived the destruction of an entire planet.

By accident. An angel was flying about and saved her.
When Emilia lost her family, she was a little girl and couldn't do much about it. She had plenty of time to recover. Besides, she couldn't even avenge them since Gelu and Kilgor - those who unleashed the Reckoning - themselves became its first victims.
If Emilia was at Isabel's place, she would probably fight a while, then, seeing how once loyal lords defect from her, she would give up the throne to the Demon Sovereign and go into hiding, until Raelag would approach her and suggest digging up some uber-artifact capable of turning the tide. I can't say that this would be worse than what Isabel did, and Isabel could have obviously done better (for example, listening to Raelag instead of Markal), and there are many things you can blame Isabel for, she's not an all-goody hero... but there are also things you cannot blame her for.

Off-topic: DaemianLucifer, what happened with your post count?

[DaemianLucifer]

By accident. An angel was flying about and saved her.
When Emilia lost her family, she was a little girl and couldn't do much about it. She had plenty of time to recover. Besides, she couldn't even avenge them since Gelu and Kilgor - those who unleashed the Reckoning - themselves became its first victims.
If Emilia was at Isabel's place, she would probably fight a while, then, seeing how once loyal lords defect from her, she would give up the throne to the Demon Sovereign and go into hiding, until Raelag would approach her and suggest digging up some uber-artifact capable of turning the tide. I can't say that this would be worse than what Isabel did, and Isabel could have obviously done better (for example, listening to Raelag instead of Markal), and there are many things you can blame Isabel for, she's not an all-goody hero... but there are also things you cannot blame her for.

Because she was a child its even worse.Imagine how hard it was growing up for her?With no one to look after her,and constant raids.And all your loved ones disappearing like that is quite a trauma.No,if emilia was in isabels position she would fare way better.

Off-topic: DaemianLucifer, what happened with your post count?

Someone got jealous and felt threatened becasue I was on top

[Sikon]

See. If I was to start an Isabel fan club, I would probably be its only member.

[vicheron]

Well, if Isabel was better developed, she could have been a more interesting character. Actually, I'm thinking of doing a more detailed rewrite of the campaign. Depending on how easy the map editor is to use, I might just do it.

[ThunderTitan]

No,if emilia was in isabels position she would fare way better.

As anyone with half a brain would. But that wouldn't have made them "dark" enough for Ubi.

Somehow, that doesn't seem quite in charcter with Markal. He's a scheming b*****d, yes, but his sway over females isn't that of that type of a a seducer.

He might not be, but he's clearly obssesed with Fiona, and for all we know has her spirit trapped with him. Or is just wacko. If they did do something it might not have been just him scheming.

[Gaidal Cain]

If Emilia was at Isabel's place, she would probably fight a while, then, seeing how once loyal lords defect from her, she would give up the throne to the Demon Sovereign and go into hiding, until Raelag would approach her and suggest digging up some uber-artifact capable of turning the tide.

Meh. It wasn't like the Sovereigns' Hordes were unstoppable and added whoever opposed them into their ranks. Emilia couldn't in any way win her fight. The Griffin Empire could withstand onslaughts of demons, especially aided.

Isabel is mostly an enigma to me, due to the lousy way the story is presented. She don't get any charcter development at all during her own damn campaign...

[Sikon]

Actually, I'm thinking of doing a more detailed rewrite of the campaign.

How about a novelization?

[Odolwa]

I always wondered why Agrael had a Warlock mount Never figured the plot out before finishing the last mission.
So, "Agrael" is the Dark Elf Raelag in a demonic red armour.
But why didn't Raelag remove the armour when he was hunted by Godric after the murder of Nicolai?
Was this impossible to do before Tieru purged him?

And am I the only one that's annoyed about the end scene in Sheogh; when the four heroes decide what they will do with Isabel, save her or not?
I was expecting a long explaination by Isabel: were she told them her story about what has happened.
But the only word that slips her mouth is "Hey!" when Findan suggests them to leave her in Sheogh.

She's so pathetic.