[Universe] What do you think of Ashan ?

OliverFA · Unread postby **OliverFA** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:15

Voted "A decent, but not very innovative, fantasy world.".

While I fully understand and support UBI reasons for wanting to start in their own universe, I still would like to see some kind of (weak) connection with the old. It's just enough to say that this new world is inside the same universe and throw in a couple of heroes. Maybe Crag Hack, as the barbarian town, one of the four original types, was unfairly left out. So a good compensation would be to bring back that town with Crag Hack or Tarnum in the expansion. Crag Hack does not need much explanation to be there, as neither it was never explained how he managed to be everywhere form Heroes I to IV. Tarnum would just be sent by the ancients (The "ancient dragons" maybe, to keep consistency with the new world) to help Isabel in the expansion.

On the other hand, that "Humans vs Demons" fits the overall NWCs Might & Magic "Ancient vs Kreegans" theme.

On the other hand as other posters say, this Heroes is too much magic and too few might without the barbarians.

Let's see how this world evolves. For the moment is not bad, but neither awesome.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:19

OliverFA wrote:While I fully understand and support UBI reasons for wanting to start in their own universe, I still would like to see some kind of (weak) connection with the old. It's just enough to say that this new world is inside the same universe and throw in a couple of heroes. Maybe Crag Hack, as the barbarian town, one of the four original types, was unfairly left out. So a good compensation would be to bring back that town with Crag Hack or Tarnum in the expansion. Crag Hack does not need much explanation to be there, as neither it was never explained how he managed to be everywhere form Heroes I to IV. Tarnum would just be sent by the ancients (The "ancient dragons" maybe, to keep consistency with the new world) to help Isabel in the expansion.

Well we do have some old heroes,dont we?We have a mention of craig hack,sandro was markals mentor,someone said that solmyr was mentioned,and theres the city founded by erathian refugees.

OliverFA · Unread postby **OliverFA** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:25

Zamolxis wrote:The topic starter complains that all characters are "desperatly goody-old-shoes" and that there are no true villains. He might be right. He might be a fan of the bad guys, not finding them in the game. Acutally, come to think of it, the so called bad guys are not as frightening & impressive as they could be (except for Olivier's overdone artworks, with an endless amount of pointy things on their kitch outfits). But I didn't notice that, as I'm a fan of the good guys, and I also can't seem to find any of them in the game. The noble ideas from previous games where turned into greed & revenge.

Really? Isabel sounds much like Catherine for me

he could even be a Gryphonheart! They have so much in common. They are two queens not used to military and war that bravely lead their country against the invaders (demons in both cases) and that turn to be sleeping heroes. ;-)

Zamolxis wrote:2. No Heroic feeling

That's because they are again Cowards of Might & Magic or, at most, Generals of Might and Magic

Why not put Isabel in the battlefield and if she dies make the Light Dragon resurrect her as far as she owns a new building called "the Temple of Dragon" in some town in the map? (Yes, I borrowed the idea from AoW 2. But it was a good idea!)

Zamolxis wrote:But, unlike the topic starter, there's one thing I like about this universe as compared to the previous one - no techs. Technology for me kills the beauty of magic and I think there are other ways of avoiding clichés than introducing techs in a fantasy game.

I agree 100% Simply technology is not HoMM even if it's M&M.

But if they want to do something with S&F, just copy Warhammer and set it somewhere else very far far away. I have never been against an spin off called SFHOMM, but I am against of spoiling the original HOMM with SciFi.

OliverFA · Unread postby **OliverFA** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:31

DaemianLucifer wrote:Well we do have some old heroes,dont we?We have a mention of craig hack,sandro was markals mentor,someone said that solmyr was mentioned,and theres the city founded by erathian refugees.

Yes, you are right. And to be fair with UBI that was a nice gesture of them as those heroes were included by fan request

But I still would like to have one of the old good heroes as a central part of a campaign. And as I truly hope for Barbarians to come back (even if my favourite faction are humans) I would really love to see Crag Hack or Tarnum as either the central hero or Isabel's right hand.

PS: I have lost all faith of seeing Adelaide again

OliverFA · Unread postby **OliverFA** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:36

DaemianLucifer wrote:Sure there are ways,but Ive seen so little good worlds with mixed technology and magic.And none in a computer game(yes,I know arcanum is good,but its not that good)

May I friendly disagree? "Warhammer 40000 ; Chaos Gate" was one of those games. However, I still prefer no SciFi in Heroes ;-)

OliverFA · Unread postby **OliverFA** » 19 Jun 2006, 16:42

Linky wrote:The campaigns could've been more independent, with only hints about the bigger story arch. For example during the Haven campaign everything could've seemed to be all good and dandy, but then in the very end you could see that Isabel would've formed an alliance with Markal, or that she carries a demon messiah or something.

IMHO that was of the things badly designed in Heroes 4 (we cannot blame 3DO for the design decision of making independent campaigns ;-) ) Heroes 3 style, like in Heroes 5, is much better. All the campaigns get together and form a bigger story. So I am happy that all campaigns are highly dependent. And I am happy that humans are the good guys. Too many "humans are not as good as they seem to be" games lately...

Linky · Unread postby **Linky** » 19 Jun 2006, 18:15

I don't like the black & white, good guys vs. bad guys approach at all. Too naive and fairytalish.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 19 Jun 2006, 18:36

Linky wrote:I don't like the black & white, good guys vs. bad guys approach at all. Too naive and fairytalish.

Ah,but we have good guys turning bad,and bad guys turning good.Thats such a marvelous twist,dont you think?

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 19 Jun 2006, 20:17

OliverFA wrote:And I am happy that humans are the good guys. Too many "humans are not as good as they seem to be" games lately...

You sure you played the same game?!

Linky · Unread postby **Linky** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:18

ThunderTitan wrote:
OliverFA wrote:And I am happy that humans are the good guys. Too many "humans are not as good as they seem to be" games lately...
You sure you played the same game?!

He prolly hasn't finished the game yet. He's in for quite a surprise.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:29

Linky wrote: He prolly hasn't finished the game yet. He's in for quite a surprise.

I haven't finished either, and the humans didn't strike me as the good guys.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:40

ThunderTitan wrote: I haven't finished either, and the humans didn't strike me as the good guys.

They dont strike me as evil either.They strike me as...whats the word here...ah,yes!Stupid.Humans strike me as quite a stuoid bunch.

Linky · Unread postby **Linky** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:40

DaemianLucifer wrote:
Linky wrote:I don't like the black & white, good guys vs. bad guys approach at all. Too naive and fairytalish.
Ah,but we have good guys turning bad,and bad guys turning good.Thats such a marvelous twist,dont you think?

Truely, I stand corrected. This is storytelling at its best, up there with all the Tarantinoes. I can think of the story for the expansion:

The evil Isabel takes over the kingdom and enslaves most of its people with the help of her demon minions. One demon henchman, Dricgo raises among the ranks and is soon Isabel's top aide. Little does she know, Dricgo has other plans and a mysterious past...
When Dricgo kills Isabel and reveals his true identity, Raelag vows revenge on him, as he was still in love with Isabel. Queue in Markal, who tells Raelag of a way to revive her. But toes Markal have other plans for her?
The Demon Sovereign is baffled and has lost track on all the changes of identity, people turning good to evil and evil to good left and right, finally losing his sanity. He teams up with the Sylvan and Dark Elves - two factions now working together, because it fits the story better. They embark on a quest to eradicate the newcomers, Orcs and Dwarves, because they are smaller than elves and therefore just annoying to have around.
The Dwarves will not stand by and just watch the genocide happen, but instead choose take the most logical approach to this: they will attack the Silver Cities and claim them as their own, giving them for some bizarre reason an advantage over the (other) hostile forces.
Oh, and then there's the Orcs. Nobody likes them, so they get wiped out of the face of Ashan. They don't even have a dragon of their own, so they didn't stand a chance when the united elf forces attacked.

Omega_Destroyer · Unread postby **Omega_Destroyer** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:41

He prolly hasn't finished the game yet. He's in for quite a surprise.

A surprise called moderate disappointment.

Linky · Unread postby **Linky** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:43

DaemianLucifer wrote: They dont strike me as evil either.They strike me as...whats the word here...ah,yes!Stupid.Humans strike me as quite a stuoid bunch.

If humans came up with the story of this game, then that description is pretty accurate. Though this story might've been the result of 10 monkeys in front of 10 typewriters for a week.

Omega_Destroyer · Unread postby **Omega_Destroyer** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:47

Lol. That may be giving too much credit to the story writers; the monkies may have easily been able to do better.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:49

Linky wrote: Oh, and then there's the Orcs. Nobody likes them, so they get wiped out of the face of Ashan. They don't even have a dragon of their own, so they didn't stand a chance when the united elf forces attacked.

No, a better ending would be the orcs leaving the planet in a huge sHINY spaceship to flee from the pointy eared poet/sadist wannabes. And then the Universe implodes.

DaemianLucifer wrote: They dont strike me as evil either.They strike me as...whats the word here...ah,yes!Stupid.Humans strike me as quite a stupid bunch.

Never said they were Evil. Stupid and self-absorbed more like it.

Linky · Unread postby **Linky** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:51

ThunderTitan wrote:
Linky wrote: Oh, and then there's the Orcs. Nobody likes them, so they get wiped out of the face of Ashan. They don't even have a dragon of their own, so they didn't stand a chance when the united elf forces attacked.
No, a better ending would be the orcs leaving the planet in a huge sHINY spaceship to flee from the pointy eared poet/sadist wannabes. And then the Universe implodes.

After which a space dragon eats the spaceship. That would be the outro video.

Omega_Destroyer wrote:Lol. That may be giving too much credit to the story writers; the monkies may have easily been able to do better.

You're right, we'll have to cut that down to 1 blind monkey and 1 malfunctioning typewriter. Even then it would be a tight race between him and the actual writers.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:56

Linky wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote:
Linky wrote: Oh, and then there's the Orcs. Nobody likes them, so they get wiped out of the face of Ashan. They don't even have a dragon of their own, so they didn't stand a chance when the united elf forces attacked.
No, a better ending would be the orcs leaving the planet in a huge sHINY spaceship to flee from the pointy eared poet/sadist wannabes. And then the Universe implodes.

After which a space dragon eats the spaceship. That would be the outro video.

Well that would be a video Id really look forward to seeing.Unlike the current one.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 19 Jun 2006, 22:08

Linky wrote:
After which a space dragon eats the spaceship.

Who then procedes to burp. THE END. Brilliant. Now all we need is someone to finance our little project.

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[Universe] What do you think of Ashan ?

What do you think of Ashan ?

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