[Universe] What do you think of Ashan ?

[Gaidal Cain]

On the PM, Irollan is north-west of the HGE. In-game (Sylvan campaign, especially C5M5) it seems to be north-east.

And there's an ocean in-between as well. Definately odd.

[DaemianLucifer]

Maybe they thought no one would notice

This means that it was different teams,one wrote the geography,other drew it,and third made it in game(like that should be a suprise),but they didnt quite understand each other on some points.

[Akul]

Why isn't there an "I didn't see enough to judge.". You compare 9 M&M games, 4 HOMM games, their expansions and some other games with a 1 game.
When someone plays H3 and H4, he woudl think that they are an fantasy cliche. If you play more M&M games, you kkow that that can't be true.So, until I see more new M&M games and Lore section of the M&M portal, I can't judge.

[ThunderTitan]

There is an extensive oficial lore of the land on CH and AoH.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/he ... line.shtml

http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=401

[Linky]

I posted about the story & universe in another thread, but I guess this is the correct place to talk about it.

The problem for me is that even a 10 year old would see most of the 'cunning plans' the evil characters have miles before they happen, yet the fools fall straight into these traps time and time again.

Take Braveheart for example. There's a great story of conflicts and betrayal that would fit a Heroes type of game like a glove. The Haven campaign could've been a lot more like that.

The campaigns could've been more independent, with only hints about the bigger story arch. For example during the Haven campaign everything could've seemed to be all good and dandy, but then in the very end you could see that Isabel would've formed an alliance with Markal, or that she carries a demon messiah or something.

Here's an example of how the transition from Haven to Necro and then the Necro campaign could've gone:
- In the Haven outro you see that Markal approaches Isabel without Godric seeing and they form a secret alliance.
- Necro Mission 1 Markal has hidden the staff of Necromancy (with which he can create necro cities) which he stole from the Silver Cities ages before in a distant dungeon, forest or some such, but as he returns to claim it, he finds out that some dark elves / humans / elves have moved there, so he has to eradicate them to be able to claim the staff.
- Mission 2 he proceeds to claim the other artifacts without Isabels help. It's just stupid that a Queen would so willingly conquer whole cities and destroy armies to get a few artifacts. It should be Markal's task only.

[Gothrak]

I totally agree, what I say is there was technology from the beginning of the Might and Magic series and it was part of what made Might and Magic unique.

Not unique at all, actually! The "rival" series of Might and Magic - Wizardry and Ultima - also had a fusion of technology and fantasy. Wizardry had a space opera-type struggle going on, especially in the later games; Ultima's protagonist was from the present "modern world" (and there were various in-jokes, like a crashed Kilrathi fighter from the Wing Commander series, that further blurred the sci-fi/fantasy line). So, oddly enough, one of the few things the three series had in common was their tech/magic mixed settings.

A fusion of fantasy and technology is also featured in several other CRPGs, most notably Blue Byte's Albion and Troika's Arcanum.

So it's hardly unique, but definately something that I loved in Might & Magic. I really enjoy fantasy and technology mixed together, and can't begin to understand why some people dislike it. I was one of the few who really wanted to see the Forge in Heroes III and was devastated when they replaced it with the bland Conflux.

My personal feeling is that nothing is so limiting to the idea of "magic" than the perception that it must be paired with a medieval setting. It almost implies that cultures that have magic are unable to progress beyond a primitive state - it creates a suspension of belief beyond what is already required for the supernatural.

This new fantasy setting isn't going to make any marks for innovation or novelty. It's not bad, but it's (as has been noted) a melting pot of other works and sources.

[Alamar]

I voted for the WarHammer of D&D option although I think that a slightly better option would been Heroes of WarHammer and DnD. .

However, to gain perspective, the HoMM world took a couple of iterations before I started loving its world & setting.

IMHO if you're going to compare world development I think that you have to look at what was done with HoMM1 and its world backstory vs. what happenned with HoMM5 and its backstory. I'm not sure that there's really anyone that can argue that HoMM1 did a better job of creating a totally unique world and explaining what was going on than HoMM5 has done so far.

It wasn't until HoMM2 where they continued the story [succession wars -- still the best story in a HoMM game IMHO] that I really started LOVING the HoMM setting itself. I do think that its unfair to say that the HoMM5 universe is a disaster at this point. While not unique its certainly no worse than H1.

As far as technology goes I'm a Might & Magic fan so I'm not opposed to technology per-se. Granted rocket pack minotaurs and Naga Tanks are lame but some tech [limited to a campaign scenarios only or similar limitations] would be fine with me.

[Gothrak]

Granted rocket pack minotaurs and Naga Tanks are lame

Lame? It's a minotaur with a rocket pack. There's a cosmological law that states that x + rocket pack = awesome. It doesn't matter what x is, strap a rocket pack onto it and you have achieved a positive outcome, a result that can only be scientifically defined as "oh wow it has a jetpack how freaking cool is that"

Likewise, the Naga Tank looked like a highly entertaining Gigeresque fusion of flesh and machine. It's like a naga but it's also a tank. Imagine you passed me in the street; just a regular guy you don't know. You wouldn't pay much attention to me, would you? Now imagine my legs are not legs - but are in fact an entire tank. I have a tank where my legs should be. There's no way you're going to overlook me now, you're not going to pass me in the street and not take a glance at the guy whose lower portion is a tank. Likewise a Naga who is part tank can only be a similar success story.

What baffles me, in fact, is that the Academy never looked at their nagas and said "Hey. We're good with machinery. Why don't we keep the part that has the breasts and replace the snake bit with a tank?"

What was lame was NWC just taking all the elementals, giving them unconvincing upgrades, throwing in a "magic elemental" that looked like a flasher in a trenchcoat and bringing back Pixies and Phoenixes to round off the Dullsville that was the Conflux. Gluh. Sure, some might call my opinions on the Forge / Conflux matter controversial, or even incredibly stupid. But to those who doubt me, I say this - just think how cool it would be to have a jetpack right now.

[Alamar]

Granted rocket pack minotaurs and Naga Tanks are lame

Lame? It's a minotaur with a rocket pack. There's a cosmological law that states that x + rocket pack = awesome

Your sarcasm is mighty indeed. Would it have been better if I'd have said "hella lame"?

[Gothrak]

Okay, you saw right through me. Jet pack minotaurs and naga tanks are pretty stupid.

But I still think it would've been better than the Conflux. Rather than bow in to pressure, I think NWC should've pleased everyone by mixing the Conflux and Forge towns Heroes 4 style; now you can alternate between recruiting pixies and zombies with rocket launchers.

It's an odd sort of bond, the friendship between Pixie and Rocket-Launcher Zombie - but a touching one.

[ThunderTitan]

What baffles me, in fact, is that the Academy never looked at their nagas and said "Hey. We're good with machinery. Why don't we keep the part that has the breasts and replace the snake bit with a tank?"

Maybe they were all pervy snake fanciers.


Me personaly, i dislike both the Conflux and the Forge town, even with the sexy naga tank.

[DaemianLucifer]

@Gothrak

I find nothing wrong with having a mix of magic and technology.But only if that mix is universal.So having heaven driving tanks and jeeps,and using marines,while inferno uses lasers and jets,and academy using heavy artilery,thats one is ok.But having a medieval heaven,medieval demons,medieval warlocks,etc,and just one hi-tech town,is just plain stupid.Its like spanish fighting astecz.Gee,I wonder who would won.

[Gothrak]

A better comparison would be the Spanish vs the Aztecs, if the Aztecs were able to spit fireballs from their eyes, teleport themselves across vast distances and reanimate their dead warriors.

[ThunderTitan]

I just didn't like that most of the units were just normal ones with cybernetics enhancements. And the town just looked out of place compared to the others.


And just for the record, the spanish would have been slaugthered is the aztecs attacked them with a real army, as they were incredibly outnumbered. They just got lucky.

[vicheron]

The factions that don't have technology still have magic. The technologically advanced faction will allow their unskilled troops to become much more powerful and they'll completely decimate non-magic wielding enemies but when it comes to mages, spells are as powerful as machine guns and rockets. Magic can be even more powerful than technology since it can violate the laws of physics.

[innokenti]

It has just occured to me that one of the things that may have in fact ruined a lot of story (and that whole area) of H5 is the fact that they thought it through too much and basically tried to give it all to the fans, explain a lot of it outright.

What usually works best is starting off with minimal information of the past and allowing it to be subtly and slowly revealed throughout the narrative.

You reveal the world far far after it's built. The biggest advantage also is that, before too much is revealed, bits can be rebuilt and altered. Indeed.

[Akul]

It has just occured to me that one of the things that may have in fact ruined a lot of story (and that whole area) of H5 is the fact that they thought it through too much and basically tried to give it all to the fans, explain a lot of it outright.

What usually works best is starting off with minimal information of the past and allowing it to be subtly and slowly revealed throughout the narrative.

You reveal the world far far after it's built. The biggest advantage also is that, before too much is revealed, bits can be rebuilt and altered. Indeed.

I can't agree more. The fact that we know everything about the universe is a bit stupid.
However, I hope that they just told the facts that are connected with H5 campaign.

[DaemianLucifer]

A better comparison would be the Spanish vs the Aztecs, if the Aztecs were able to spit fireballs from their eyes, teleport themselves across vast distances and reanimate their dead warriors.

Not quite,because the forge town wouldnt lack magic,so it would be both spanish and aztecs are able to spit fireballs from their eyes, teleport themselves across vast distances and reanimate their dead warriors,but the spanish had way more advanced technology,including tanks and lasers,and god knows what more.

[Campaigner]

Vote: "Great world ! Exactly the universe HoMM needed."

What could be better?? You get a solid background story which is incredibly original and explains everything up til the Haven campaign. I mean, the blind brothers, Sar-<choose a mythical name>, bloodthirsty demons and noble knights, defending woodelves and evil Darkelves. To top it off, we got knowledge seeking mages alternative mages (known as Necromancers).

So I think most of you are a bunch of whiners that'll never get pleased.

[innokenti]

Yup... that is so unbelievably original. I've never seen anything of the kind before.