Leak

[King Imp]

Oh my God, they are trying to make some money off of their hard work! How dare they! Report them to the authorities at once!

Kingimp, I hate to say it but it seems like you just barged into the discussion without following it closely.

Who the hell only makes $100 a month?

A LOT of people. trust me on that one.

and the whole CPU vs Game discussion is uncalled for. a cpu does more than just play games.

there are a LOT of valid arguments one can use against pirates but please; not that one.

When people are bitching and moaning like babies that they can't afford a single game, but have no problem coming up with the money to pay for the device used to play that single game, it is a very valid argument.

[DaemianLucifer]

When people are ***** and moaning like babies that they can't afford a single game, but have no problem coming up with the money to pay for the device used to play that single game, it is a very valid argument.

No its not.You simply fail to see that that device isnt used just to play that single game.Its not a console,its a computer.You do know that it has many other uses,right?You can actually use it for work as well.Besides,you dont have to buy it at instant.You can buy a cheap computer and gradually upgrade it.Its like saying:Look at him,he had the money to buy that car,yet he cannot afford a simple sound system,and it costs 10 times less.YOu dont buy that car to listen to music,but to get quicklier from one place to the other.

[King Imp]

When people are ***** and moaning like babies that they can't afford a single game, but have no problem coming up with the money to pay for the device used to play that single game, it is a very valid argument.

No its not.You simply fail to see that that device isnt used just to play that single game.Its not a console,its a computer.You do know that it has many other uses,right?You can actually use it for work as well.Besides,you dont have to buy it at instant.You can buy a cheap computer and gradually upgrade it.Its like saying:Look at him,he had the money to buy that car,yet he cannot afford a simple sound system,and it costs 10 times less.YOu dont buy that car to listen to music,but to get quicklier from one place to the other.

Obviously my point is going over most of your heads. This is not about what a computer is used for. It's about money.

People are complaining that they can't afford a single game ($50) and that's why they are illegally downloading it, but by some miraculous happening they had absolutely no problem finding that $1000 to $2000 to pay for a computer. The reasoning is ridiculous on the thieves' part.

[ThunderTitan]

People are complaining that they can't afford a single game ($50) and that's why they are illegally downloading it, but by some miraculous happening they had absolutely no problem finding that $1000 to $2000 to pay for a computer. The reasoning is ridiculous on the thieves' part.

500$ buys a PC that can handle H5. And that's if you get a monitor with it. You're also forgeting it's not just 1 game, but many.
And some people have worked for a year or more getting the money to buy a computer, they didn't just pull the money out of their ass. You can't say that people that buy a house using all their savings should also have enough money for a Gucci suit. Then again if you find 1000$ a small sum I doubt this will get through to you.

[DaemianLucifer]

Obviously my point is going over most of your heads. This is not about what a computer is used for. It's about money.

People are complaining that they can't afford a single game ($50) and that's why they are illegally downloading it, but by some miraculous happening they had absolutely no problem finding that $1000 to $2000 to pay for a computer. The reasoning is ridiculous on the thieves' part.

Some people are simply blind to reason.Its pointless to continue this argument.

[dragonn]

I think that the major reason for piracy is not the lack of money (in most cases that is), but a way of thinking, like this: "why paying for a game when I can download it from net right a way!" or "crappy game, I'll download it and see if I like it. If not I'll throw it out". For some players games are just games. I know that it's hard to buy games when a person has not too much money to spend it that way, but it makes that person careful in choosing a game suitable for him. If a person wants to buy a single game, he'll try to earn enough money to buy it (and that goes for any other thing, not only games).

I buy games which, for me, deserve to be bought. It's my way of showing great acceptance to a game. Not to mention all those bonuses which are given to you, even a single games manual (but, that's of course is not the important thing). And, there are problems with pirate games, like no possibility to play the game by internet, or problems with installing patches. It's not worth it.

[Malicen]

Can't some of you just cool their heads and think about one little fact. THIS THING HAS BEEN DONE A MILLION TIMES BEFORE AND WILL BE DONE MILLION TIMES AFTER HEROES 5!!! And I still can't see that world has crumbled because of piracy or any of you demagogues here poor and out on the street. So accept this as a fact some will buy the game, the others will not. Some do have reasons (which you do not consider as possible) and some do not. But still even WITH piracy Ubisoft, Blizzard, EA, Activision and all those other brands still live. The same thing is applicable to music, movies, other software, clothes, and I don't know what else. But WE are ALL still alive!

[Znork]

Can't some of you just cool their heads and think about one little fact. THIS THING HAS BEEN DONE A MILLION TIMES BEFORE AND WILL BE DONE MILLION TIMES AFTER HEROES 5!!! And I still can't see that world has crumbled because of piracy or any of you demagogues here poor and out on the street. So accept this as a fact some will buy the game, the others will not. Some do have reasons (which you do not consider as possible) and some do not. But still even WITH piracy Ubisoft, Blizzard, EA, Activision and all those other brands still live. The same thing is applicable to music, movies, other software, clothes, and I don't know what else. But WE are ALL still alive!

Yes we are alive and you are still wrong! And no we dont need accsept it becuse people dling the game might cost me the expantion so yhea im kinda pissed!

[Campaigner]

This discussion is the best I've ever seen on these forums. Seriously.

I live in Sweden and has a pretty good life compared to the 3rd world, yet I will always try to get everything as cheap as possible and games and movies for free if I can. I don't feel bad for any dev or publisher.

When I was young and had a lot less money I always bought games (didn't know about pirate copies) for my consonle systems. On the NES they costed 40 Euro, SNES and Nintendo 64 75-90 Euro and playstation 40 Euro. Guess why I gotted a computer??

To play games for FREE! ALL people I used to know and still know smile at me when I ask if they're gonna buy a game and ask me why should do that when they can get it for free. And that's perfectly logical!

Why pay when you can get something for free? <-- This is it! The magical question!

However, cd-keys and good things included with the games (such as the art book in Heroes V collection) makes life more difficult for us....but there are private servers....

I wonder why I am so honest with this....well, I am honest guy

Well that's easy, they probably stole the PC as well (it just fell of the back of a truck, honest!).

LOOOOOL!!!

That was probably the funniest thing I've ever read on the entire Celestial Heavens


Are all the mods speaking their own mind or are they following "guidelines"? Wondering since they all have the same stance on this subject.

[RommeL_666]

maybe we should think more about playing games,and fighting in the HOMM5 Arena,not here...:X)

[Bandobras Took]

Can't some of you just cool their heads and think about one little fact. THIS THING HAS BEEN DONE A MILLION TIMES BEFORE AND WILL BE DONE MILLION TIMES AFTER HEROES 5!!!

So was unsafe sex, and it didn't hurt anybody until they found out about STDs. Oh, well.

Before people go off on saying that it's not the same thing, let me underscore the essential point:

Those who say that illegal actions don't harm anybody are arrogating to themselves the capacity of a god -- the ability to see every possible outcome of their choices and actions.

Nobody has that ability. Just because we don't see a reason for a law doesn't mean there isn't a reason for the law.

So much for that.

As for the "I'm going to buy it anyway" argument:

Put another way, you don't get off with shoplifting just because you intend to pay in another two weeks. Until you've purchased something from somebody, you don't have the right to their property -- intellectual or otherwise. You have taken it from them without their consent.

You can't excuse raping a girl because you intend to marry her in a year. The difference is only of degree not of kind.

[DaemianLucifer]

Can't some of you just cool their heads and think about one little fact. THIS THING HAS BEEN DONE A MILLION TIMES BEFORE AND WILL BE DONE MILLION TIMES AFTER HEROES 5!!!

So was unsafe sex, and it didn't hurt anybody until they found out about STDs. Oh, well.

Before people go off on saying that it's not the same thing, let me underscore the essential point:

Those who say that illegal actions don't harm anybody are arrogating to themselves the capacity of a god -- the ability to see every possible outcome of their choices and actions.

Nobody has that ability. Just because we don't see a reason for a law doesn't mean there isn't a reason for the law.

So much for that.

As for the "I'm going to buy it anyway" argument:

Put another way, you don't get off with shoplifting just because you intend to pay in another two weeks. Until you've purchased something from somebody, you don't have the right to their property -- intellectual or otherwise. You have taken it from them without their consent.

You can't excuse raping a girl because you intend to marry her in a year. The difference is only of degree not of kind.

There is a diference between natural laws and man made laws.There are stupid laws like "Mustnt shave while bathing on tuesday".Whos going to obey that law?And the laws are mostly made to suit those that have the most money.For example,take the new anti-spyware law that microsoft proposed.It is ok for companies to spy on you so that they can guarantee that no one is going to spy on you? Just because some major companies are holding a monopol in the IT field doesnt give them the right to treat all of us like garbage.That is the main reason everyone protested SF.

[LongDarkBlues]

The shoplifting argument doesn't really work - pirating a game or music or whatever is copyright infringment - not stealing. As has been pointed out before, most pirated copies are from people who would't have bought it in the first place - in fact, if you look at some of the comments on the torrent threads about H5 there's stuff like:

"Oh my f*ck*n goodness who and the h**l would play this type of game.....BORINGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!"

I mean - that guy is not a lost sale to Ubisoft.

[DaemianLucifer]

The shoplifting argument doesn't really work - pirating a game or music or whatever is copyright infringment - not stealing. As has been pointed out before, most pirated copies are from people who would't have bought it in the first place - in fact, if you look at some of the comments on the torrent threads about H5 there's stuff like:

"Oh my f*ck*n goodness who and the h**l would play this type of game.....BORINGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!"

I mean - that guy is not a lost sale to Ubisoft.

You are just partialy correct.Although there are those that wouldt buy the game,there are those that would bu it if they hadnt got this option.So pirating does cost the company money,and is an equivalent of stealing.Counterweight is that the companies retaliate against the people that are buying the game,even though they have this cheap alternatives.So companies share equal blame as the pirates,yet its the honest customers that suffer for both.Lifes simply not fair that way.What can you do?

[soupnazii]

i completely agree with everything DL and TT said so far, there is just no argument against it. although you can still see the perfect logic behind the argument of *why should i pay for it when i can get it for free!?!?!?*.... which still doesnt make it right, of course.

[Bandobras Took]

The shoplifting argument doesn't really work - pirating a game or music or whatever is copyright infringment - not stealing.

How else would you define taking something from somebody else without their consent? "It's not abuse. I might beat him from time to time, but I don't abuse him."

[Wildbear]

How else would you define taking something from somebody else without their consent?

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. Software piracy is not based on the transfer of an object that would remove it from its owner, but on a copying process that let the original intact.

It is nothing like shoplifting. If one steals something in a shop, the object won't be available for sale anymore and nobody will ever pay for it. In the case of a copy being made, the game boxes can still be sold, and they actually do sell very well if you consider how easy it is to have it for free.

So it is not "taking" something "from somebody" without their consent, but only actually having that thing without that consent. That's why it's either copyright infringement or intellectual property violation.

Oddly enough, it could even be seen as capitalism at its best for the consumers: an infinite amount of value (through copy) for almost no cost!

[Znork]

Well i belive in the right of big buisniss to make fair money, and i belive making a game and selling it. I think that is ok buisniss its not like they are exploting us or the rusians!

Copy write infrigment is not shop lifting that i can agree on but its still steeling you are taking somthing that is not youres. The game is not free, when you steel a game there is consquense and you are stupid if you dont see it!

I know the argument way pay for somthing when its free? It is the right thing to do. Its about supporting the games, its about leting people make good games. You can argue but if i buy a game all the money gose to the stock holders and not makeing bether games. The question is then who payed for the development of the game?

So well if you admit you are a god dam thife i realy dont see how you can call youre selfs fans.

Then there is this argument ill dl it then buy it, first of let me say that i understand the argument but the gamin industry dosent.

So what you are doing is braking laws,you are steeling ides,you are forcing the industris to us bigger and bader cps and you are hurting honest fans.

So dling is selfish, iligal and wrong.

[DaemianLucifer]

Copy write infrigment is not shop lifting that i can agree on but its still steeling you are taking somthing that is not youres. The game is not free, when you steel a game there is consquense and you are stupid if you dont see it!

I know the argument way pay for somthing when its free? It is the right thing to do. Its about supporting the games, its about leting people make good games. You can argue but if i buy a game all the money gose to the stock holders and not makeing bether games. The question is then who payed for the development of the game?

So well if you admit you are a god dam thife i realy dont see how you can call youre selfs fans.

Then there is this argument ill dl it then buy it, first of let me say that i understand the argument but the gamin industry dosent.

So what you are doing is braking laws,you are steeling ides,you are forcing the industris to us bigger and bader cps and you are hurting honest fans.

So dling is selfish, iligal and wrong.

Ok Ill repeat myself once again:Why is there piracy?Because prices are insain.During the time when piracy was legal in my country,some people made a program that was a map of some major cities in here(now it became the map of the whole country and all cities),and protected it with a single cd key.The price was very small(it was about 5 euros when other software came at price of 50 euros).I havent found a single pirate copy of that program.People didnt bother to pirate a cd that can be gotten so cheap(In comparison,a pirate cd was just 4 times cheaper).And that program is sooo useful.It is regulary updated over the internet,and there is a new version every two years.So,every two years people pay for 5 euros for a program they know they will use for two full years,not just for a month and then toss it on a shelf somewhere.

[Znork]

Ok Ill repeat myself once again:Why is there piracy?Because prices are insain.During the time when piracy was legal in my country,some people made a program that was a map of some major cities in here(now it became the map of the whole country and all cities),and protected it with a single cd key.The price was very small(it was about 5 euros when other software came at price of 50 euros).I havent found a single pirate copy of that program.People didnt bother to pirate a cd that can be gotten so cheap(In comparison,a pirate cd was just 4 times cheaper).And that program is sooo useful.It is regulary updated over the internet,and there is a new version every two years.So,every two years people pay for 5 euros for a program they know they will use for two full years,not just for a month and then toss it on a shelf somewhere.

Yes you are making a good point and yes its one of the problems. I belive it should be handeled, but the cost of making game are enormus. but the price of the game dosent justefy piracy.If cant efford it dont buy it, i know its a hard sell but if you cant efford a car do you have the right to steel it?