Might and Magic VIII

[Tress]

Whats with all necroposting...
anyway

I don't think I get your point to be honest. It's not like you're forced to stay in Ravenshore until you do the Arion Hunter....

That doesnt change fact that elf(unlike alost all other classes except troll with doesnt have any specific skills knight couldn't substitute) is not availiable at start of the game. Thus it basically makes DE (except for some specific reasons) best starting class/

Your success in the game depends on your ingenuity.

Ingenuity and knowledge you get from replaying game second time or reading walk through is not ingenuity I can take Cauri at the start of game as well, but I wouldnt call it some thinking outside the box. Effective but nothing to do with my supreme intellect. I just know there is such option or I don't.

I agree the obelisk isn't worth it in MM7 and MM8 for the following reasons:

Must agree with this. Eofol and both Celeste/Pit is not available until end game. Also loot is sort of meh, aside from point that one might like to collect artifacts in game. in mm8 it's even worse due to Regna(concept of Regana available until 1/3 1/4 last part of game is quite game breaking imo in general as it locks many skill progressions and forces to take high lvl npc's). Fact of one night per year is even more worse as having to wait for it is even harder than actual gathering of obelisks.
Wonder why they didn't add obelisk challenge to mm9. Its not like adding single low polygon model with 10 strings of text is that hard.

[GrayFace]

1) You have to get to places that are near impossible (Eeofol) or flat out impossible(Regna) in order to get all the obelisks until much later in the game.

Not in MM8. There picking obelisks isn't required.

2) The loot only shows up one day a year

Only in MM8.

It puzzles me a bit how people figured it out in MM8. Obelisks are totally misguiding. First, wrong time. It doesn't take a mathematician to calculate that "middle of the summer" is July 16-17 (or July 14-15 in MM calendar). Thinking better one would come up with June 21-22, which is the longest day of the year. In MM8 the day is June 24, which doesn't make any sense at all. Second, the place is wrong. Unicorn King doesn't appear among other unicorns, it appears in the middle of the map.

Whats with all necroposting...
That doesnt change fact that elf(unlike alost all other classes except troll with doesnt have any specific skills knight couldn't substitute) is not availiable at start of the game. Thus it basically makes DE (except for some specific reasons) best starting class/

Not at all. If you want to have a DE in your party, that would make much sense. However, DE is a really weak class, why would you want it in your party?

[Tress]

Not in MM8. There picking obelisks isn't required.

You 100 % sure on this. Somehow I had impression he didn't spawned otherwise.

It puzzles me a bit how people figured it out in MM8.

In fact once correctly understood that midsummer is not same middle of summer I instantly recognized that it is meant on 24 June. Then again in my country midsummer is important celebration. No less if not more than xmas.

Not at all. If you want to have a DE in your party, that would make much sense. However, DE is a really weak class, why would you want it in your party?

Most class can substitute each other especially in begging of the game. DE on other hand is sole class that have all utility skills available like disarm and merchant. Also not to mention I fail to see how it is weak. Until middle of game his/her spells are no weaker than necromancers, bow is extremely helpful when there is low mana resource at start of game, and elf ability is also extremely potent.
In fact only class that I dont see good redeeming qualities is minotaur as he dont have special skills and knight perform slashing on much higher level. Perception is not that important, and low level self magic is not too useful either

[GrayFace]

Not in MM8. There picking obelisks isn't required.

You 100 % sure on this. Somehow I had impression he didn't spawned otherwise.

Not 100%. I don't remember my experience, but I read this in 2 places recently. Since MM8 didn't get any official patches, this should be valid for any game.

In fact once correctly understood that midsummer is not same middle of summer I instantly recognized that it is meant on 24 June. Then again in my country midsummer is important celebration. No less if not more than xmas.

Cool. What's your country?

Most class can substitute each other especially in begging of the game. DE on other hand is sole class that have all utility skills available like disarm and merchant. Also not to mention I fail to see how it is weak. Until middle of game his/her spells are no weaker than necromancers, bow is extremely helpful when there is low mana resource at start of game, and elf ability is also extremely potent.
In fact only class that I dont see good redeeming qualities is minotaur as he dont have special skills and knight perform slashing on much higher level. Perception is not that important, and low level self magic is not too useful either

Knight disarms traps well, necromancer (or better dragon) identifies items and merchant I consider a waste of skill points. I don't remember how DEs work in party actually. I'm sure they're good in the beginning and they can unload some skill burden from necro later by learning Air and ID Item (if playing without a dragon), but I would rather choose another necro instead of DE
Old classes outperform the new ones, except Dragon ofc. Among new classes I'd choose troll as the most compelling due to paralyze ability.

[Tress]

Cool. What's your country?

Latvia.

Knight disarms traps well, necromancer (or better dragon) identifies items and merchant I consider a waste of skill points. I don't remember how DEs work in party actually. I'm sure they're good in the beginning and they can unload some skill burden from necro later by learning Air and ID Item (if playing without a dragon), but I would rather choose another necro instead of DE smile

You will need GM(or high level) disarm eventually, so it is better to give it to character that will be dedicated to it. Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training. Also during beginning phase of game bow is extremely good. Anyway game is quite easy anyway so it doesn't matter that much(at least combat is easy, but not having disarm or other utility skill when you need it can make frustrating.)

Also actual uttility of DE does not make up for the point that pre set position of hirelings, define which character should be main, and play style of start of game altogether. It would be much more interesting if starting hirelings would be randomized.

[Avonu]

You will need GM(or high level) disarm eventually

From MMVII experience I can say that Knight with 1 point in Disarm Trap and with ring +25 to Disarm Trap is enough to open most of the chests. And for the few rest, Dodge/Perception + Regeneration/Heal spells were enough.

Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training.

No, it doesnt.
There is enough gold in game to throw away few millions here and there. It isn't MM3-5 or MM9, where every dime was valuable.
And IIRC merchant also lower costs of trening, it is character (advanced) class which rise it (or if you put too many points in expert/(grand)master merchant and then counter could broke and you get negative bonus - at least this is another bug in MM9).

Not in MM8. There picking obelisks isn't required.

You 100 % sure on this. Somehow I had impression he didn't spawned otherwise.

Not 100%. I don't remember my experience, but I read this in 2 places recently. Since MM8 didn't get any official patches, this should be valid for any game.

IIRC if you won't visit all obelisks, Unicorn King won't spawn at all OR it won't have key OR Vault of Time won't open until you visit all obelisks.
There is a need to do that, but I really don't remember which case above was true in MM8 (in MM7 you simply couldn't open treasure chest, even if you know how to do that - you needed to visit all obelisks first).

Must agree with this. Eofol and both Celeste/Pit is not available until end game.

Eeofol can be reach as soon as you get to Nighon (and this can be done on early levels - just run past mosnters). All what you need is Invisibility spell/scroll and/or good keyboard managment, to run past monsters.
IIRC there are only two place/monsters that block your way in Tunnels to Eeofol and they are hardly to avoid without fight but it is possible to evade these mosters with a lot of patience. Later in Eeofol you only need to active portal to Harmondale and you can go back there anytime.
As for Celeste/Pit - as soon you get there and have Invisibility spell, there is no problem to visit obelisk. But yes, these places are available in the middle at game it the best cases. At least it's not like Regna in MM9, which is available nearly the end of game.

[GrayFace]

You will need GM(or high level) disarm eventually, so it is better to give it to character that will be dedicated to it.

Uh, I forgot, Knight is just an Expert. Very frequently I pick chests without sufficient Disarm Trap skill. Cleric can take about 5 chests until he runs out of spell points for healing himself, while others are in Preservation. At the end of the game chests are less of a threat AFAIR.

Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training.

I don't remember having any problems with it in MM7/MM8. In fact my last 7 games in MM8 were solo, so I don't remember party games well. I only remember how I ran out of cash when I played solo Lich. Higher levels up to 200 were very expensive. Lich has ID Item, so I used to drop all loot I don't need thinking I would have way more money than I can spend anyway, but at the end I had to sell a little to level up.

Also during beginning phase of game bow is extremely good. Anyway game is quite easy anyway so it doesn't matter that much(at least combat is easy, but not having disarm or other utility skill when you need it can make frustrating.)

Yes. I end up making artificial limitations to make it less so. One of them is not using bows, or using bows only until the monster approaches the party and not using turn-based mode.

[Tress]

No, it doesnt.
There is enough gold in game to throw away few millions here and there. It isn't MM3-5 or MM9, where every dime was valuable.
And IIRC merchant also lower costs of trening, it is character (advanced) class which rise it (or if you put too many points in expert/(grand)master merchant and then counter could broke and you get negative bonus - at least this is another bug in MM9).
.............
I don't remember having any problems with it in MM7/MM8. In fact my last 7 games in MM8 were solo, so I don't remember party games well. I only remember how I ran out of cash when I played solo Lich. Higher levels up to 200 were very expensive. Lich has ID Item, so I used to drop all loot I don't need thinking I would have way more money than I can spend anyway, but at the end I had to sell a little to level up.

TBH don't exactly remember mm8 but in 7 you could easily run into money problems with no merchant skill(as money problem comes from both fact that loot sells for nothing and training is expensive). In mm6-8 Afaik merchant worked perfectly. Don't remember precisely regarding 9.
Besides 10 points in skill is nothing for fact that life is made so much easier(unless you are deliberately making game harder). In general my view is that if my knight deal 50 or 60 damage is not as much difference if I get trapped chest blown in my face or not, or I ran out of money(or into money problem at all).

[Variol]

I have not played MM8 for a while, but I'm sure that I never had any money issues?

[Bandobras Took]

Dark Elves may not be necessary (on the level of, say, GM Protection From Magic in MMVII), but they're a class that certainly makes the game the most convenient.

[DaveO]

If you're playing more than one character in MM8, I don't think you'll run into money problems. A solo character could have challenges with leveling, inventory, and other issues. I've done a few solo characters though and I recall still having enough money to continue training(up to level 100 or 125).

[GrayFace]

I'd say it's the opposite. With a party you care about money for a much longer time, because you have to buy spells for all characters for example. A solo character quickly stops having any issues with money. Money issues in late game are possible only if you have high enough Learning to get to lvl 200 AND you never sell stuff at shops. When I ran out of money I cleared the path from crystal in Plane Between Planes to the nearest prison and sold loot. That was enough to train the remaining levels to 200. Inventory is indeed a problem with characters that can't learn ID Item.

[GreatEmerald]

Latvia.

Interesting, we here in Lithuania don't emphasise it that much. It's a holiday, but due to catholic influence it's now called Joninės, as opposed to Rasos ("dew celebration"). But then you also had other awesome things like Ziemassvētki