MM6 Memory Crystals and Oracle

[XEL II]

No, IIRC it was said that the Ancients harnessed the Elementals to create one for them, not that they created a ship and Elementals came to live there.

No, it was said outright that the ship was created by the Ancients. Direct quote from MM2 ending: "This ship, created by the Ancients, is the grand experiment designed to populate this distant world". An obvious nod to the fact that Land of CRON (where MM2 takes place) is not the entirety of the CRON ship (aka vehicle), if you ask me.
The Elementals didn't come to CRON until year 100 of Cronian calendar.

Clearly they weren't born in the space station, now were they?

Um, well, yeah, sure they weren't Chosen Ones who are Varnlings were born on VARN 4 and Chosen Ones that joined the party at the start of MM2 were born in the land of Cron. We also know 100% that VARNs are inside of the CRON ship. And, as I stated earilier, there are enough clues to be sure that VARNs are spaceships on the outside, too.

Yes, the VARN is buried because it crashed there. I don't see how that's a point...

VARN MCMIV didn't crash on Enroth, it landed safely and was implanted into the planet. It's the very same VARN that colonized Enroth (the event that came to be known as the Crossing after the Silence) some time before the Silence.

Uh, what? It's a nacelle. It only becomes a planet in the WoX ending. And it clearly flies through space. So it's a VARN.

No, that doesn't make it a VARN at all. XEEN is NOT a Vehicular Astropod Research Nacelle, it's a Xylonite Experimental Expansion Nacelle. XEEN is a XEEN, not a VARN.
And, unlike CRON and VARNs it's not a ship, but is a Nacelle. Again, we don't know nothing about what "Nacelle" means in MM universe (my guess is that it's a term referring to a non-planet space structure that posesses it's own biosphere, but that's speculation and not a canonical fact), so just the fact of XEEN being a Nacelle doesn't make it highly resembling or identical to CRON and VARNs in structure and complexion.

No, they don't have artificial suns. That's why XEEN was starting to freeze over when Sheltem was trying to drive it to Terra.

VARNs and CRON do have artificial suns (which is clear from MM 1-2 and Heroes I), XEEN doesn't, because it's NOT A FREAKING SPACESHIP, UNLIKE VARNs and CRON

[GreatEmerald]

I'm getting tired of this, it's clearly not going anywhere. Though it would be interesting to see your opinion on how XEEN flies through space if it's not a spaceship

[tolich]

How the Earth flies through space if it's not a spaceship?

[GreatEmerald]

How the Earth flies through space if it's not a spaceship?

Did someone manage to adjust the trajectory of Earth so it would fly to Terra instead of orbiting?

[MMXAlamar]

Does XEEN have a mechanical center?

[XEL II]

I'm getting tired of this, it's clearly not going anywhere.

Oh, COME ON! We're having an excellent, thought-provoking discussion! There is really no need for The Corlagon Argument (no offence to Corlagon is intended at all), i.e. leaving a discussion when you start thinking of if it as pointless and/or find your opponent's arguements rather stronger than yours.

Not to mention the fact that our arguement actually is going somewhere, with "somewhere" being one of us argeeing with the other's opinion, the other not agreeing with aformentioned one's or us ending the discussion. What I'm persuading you to do is not to do the latter, but instead be the "one" or the "other" at the end of the day by not stopping our discussion so abruptly.

Though it would be interesting to see your opinion on how XEEN flies through space if it's not a spaceship

Here you go: viewtopic.php?p=307868&highlight=#307868

Does XEEN have a mechanical center?

There is a possibility of that

Did someone manage to adjust the trajectory of Earth so it would fly to Terra instead of orbiting?

Not yet, but if there is someone/something who/which has set the Earth on its current trajectory (or, at least, is capable of adjusting it), they/it may very well have/has done it in an indefinite future. Providing there is a "Terra" for the Earth to fly to, of course.

[tolich]

Did someone manage to adjust the trajectory of Earth?

Prof. Farnsworth did.

[XEL II]

Prof. Farnsworth did.

Why the fuсk doesn't this forum have a reputation system?

[Corlagon]

and/or find your opponent's arguements rather stronger than yours.

I recall there was a "Joke of the Day" feature in MM3...

[XEL II]

I recall there was a "Joke of the Day" feature in MM3... lol

It was first introduced in MM2.

"Joke of the Day"

O RLY? Then, please, tell me why exactly a clearly canonical text written by the canonical storywriters (that provides a solid* proof that Clash of the Dragons is set after AB), given all other storyline information* we have on that (i.e. timeline of CotD in regard to other games) matter (and that includes the fact that there are virtually no solid implications in CotD itself on the matter of its timing in comparison to MM 6-7 and Heroes 3), shouldn't be considered a valid source on the said matter?

This is actually something you've never done, instead only telling me that you consider your arguement "stronger" without any clear explanations answering a question of why do you think of it as a stronger one (despite being politely asked to do it), so I'm hoping you'll understand me if I'm getting somewhat overly curious about that

* The rumor is titled "Dragon's Blood", so it isn't vague in a bit.

** I'm highlighting this because as far as I'm concerned, when one analyzes it all, there is nothing in CotD or later games which would suggest that it takes place before with any sort of the obvious: Rust Dragon mention is very vague, demons under Mutare may very well be demons of the Underworld (they are never called Kreegan in CotD, not even once), and Sir Kentaine in Heroes IV says "I have outlived a king and a queen" in a context that gives completely no reason*** for the statement to suggest that there couldn't be a King of Erathia after AB.

*** The context is "why I decided to renounce my position as a Swordbearer and pass it on to you, Lord Lysander". Kentaine wasn't the Sworbearer of the Erathian royalty, he was the Swordbearer of the Gryphonheart dynasty. And a (hypothetical) new King of Erathia is certainly not a Gryphonheart. Not to mention the wording: Kentaine says "outlived a king and a queen" (in the context of "I don't think I'm gonna to remain the Swordbearer any longer").

[Corlagon]

But we had several discussions about Clash of the Dragons, and every time I pointed out that there's an Erathian king in the story, you just brushed that away with some poor excuse ("it doesn't matter", "it's General Kendal and Tarnum is ignorant", "the storywriter is ignorant", "it's this new king who we never heard of in H4", whatever), despite it being canonical - and more recent than AB - too.

Even when I attributed weight to your AB tavern rumour, conceding that neither opinion is actually fully correct and Clash of the Dragons could be before or after Armageddon's Blade for all we know (which is the case), you rejected that and continued to insist that one of those two opinions is definitely right. So no offence, but perhaps there's a reason why discussions with you tend to stop abruptly!

Do you not realise the pointlessness of trying to close this matter when we can't conclusively prove anything and neither one of us wrote that story? That is, unless you're not telling us something

Are you the Clash of the Dragons storywriter? Do you know exactly when Clash of the Dragons is set? No. The closest person we have to an authority is Marzhin, whose estimate in LotA is "30 years or so" before 532 AC, which is around 1166 AS. But indeed, who cares exactly when it was set? It doesn't make much of a difference anyway. Why are you still losing sleep about Clash of the Dragons? What's the relevance of its storyline to anything?

If you're taking issue with my timeline on the wiki here, by the way, don't bother - that thing needs to be totally rewritten anyway.

[GreatEmerald]

Do you not realise the pointlessness of trying to close this matter when we can't conclusively prove anything and neither one of us wrote that story? That is, unless you're not telling us something

This. Neither side can prove anything in both arguments because there is not enough concrete proof.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

No, they don't have artificial suns. That's why XEEN was starting to freeze over when Sheltem was trying to drive it to Terra.

XEEN isn't a VARN. The suns visible to natives of VARNs and CRONs must be artificial and not just whatever natural suns they happen to be near at the time, or else their inhabitants would freeze during the stretches of time that their nacelles are moving between solar systems on their way to the planets they're meant to land on. We know from the Guardians' logs that the vessel MM1&2's VARN and CRON are part of visits more than one solar system on its travels; it exits the Minos system after being redirected from its collision course with the Minos sun. Some of its VARNs are meant for one planet in one solar system, some for another in another system, etc. XEEN was never supposed to travel to Terra or anywhere else but its current spot in the galaxy orbiting a natural sun, so it doesn't have an artificial sun. XEEN can be re-engineered/reprogrammed to fly through space, but doesn't under normal circumstances.

As XEL said, the VARN of the Tomb of VARN didn't crash, it landed the way it was supposed to. Also, the area where it landed wasn't a desert until the Day of Fire, when Mayor Alan of Aliant misused an Ancient weapon, creating Dragonsand, not long before the Silence (which caused Enrothian colonists to blame the Silence on the Day of Fire angering the Ancients, not knowing it was the Kreegans who were responsible).

VARNs and CRON do have artificial suns (which is clear from MM 1-2 and Heroes I)