Heroes strategies, lets start with the basics!

[maygwan]

i said certain maps especially maps that start you on no gold with no goldmine close and little resources..

no point in buying 4 dwellings and not being able to purchase the creatures now is it.

[Salamandre]

I don't agree. If a map asks you to build gold first, that means your scouts have nothing to do. The mapmaker certainly forgot to learn play heroes.

If a map is good, it is balanced, means there is something to do/defeat from the first day, means you HAVE to build, recruit and then pick resources behind the monsters. Maps where you have to wait, build and do nothing are a waste of time. I remember playing "The longest journey" famous map and there were no gold chests to pick, and everything was guarded very well. I just closed the map, instead of clicking 30 times on end of turn, just to wait for cash.

[maygwan]

i never said the maps were great with low resources or gold i just said that it depended on the maps you played. basically im saying that no matter how many times people can say this strategy is best ect. it really depends on the map your playing on what strategy to use. anyway im not going there its a pointless arguement.

[Darmani]

i said certain maps especially maps that start you on no gold with no goldmine close and little resources..

no point in buying 4 dwellings and not being able to purchase the creatures now is it.

Utterly false. If you build an important dwelling in the middle of week 2 instead of the end of week 1, then you'll be spending week 3 with between 33% and 50% (depending on how many creatures come with the dwelling) less of that creature. Even in you can't buy the creatures whose dwellings you built as a prerequisite, having 50-100% more of your core creature will make a huge difference. Remember, if you build a dwelling in week 2 instead of Week 1, that doesn't just mean you have to wait a little longer to get the same amount of creatures, it means that there are several of that creature that you've permanently lost the chance to get.

A similar logic demands you flag important mines as soon as possible (yes Banedon, even if you have to flag it with a combat hero).

[Banedon]

i never said the maps were great with low resources or gold i just said that it depended on the maps you played. basically im saying that no matter how many times people can say this strategy is best ect. it really depends on the map your playing on what strategy to use. anyway im not going there its a pointless arguement.

If you can build Mage Guild Blacksmith City Hall, you most certainly can build Upg. Archer's Tower ...

If the map is so poor that you can't make it to your key creatures, then perhaps you should consider not playing that race. You can if you want, but just be aware that you can probably do better playing a different race.

A similar logic demands you flag important mines as soon as possible (yes Banedon, even if you have to flag it with a combat hero).

How can you defeat neutrals with the second hero not anywhere nearby ... and if your second hero isn't nearby, perhaps it's time to get a third hero.

And there really is seldom a time when a mine is so important you have to flag it with the main hero. It happens, but it's very rare (eg. if it's the only way you get the 20k gold to build Angels and it's day 6, then you probably should flag it, but then with one more full turn of exploration to come before the end of the week it's hard to believe you won't make it).

[Darmani]

How can you defeat neutrals with the second hero not anywhere nearby ... and if your second hero isn't nearby, perhaps it's time to get a third hero.

I don't know if there's some difference in H3 or HV that's relevant, but in H2 it happens more often than not.

Well, okay, usually my secondary hero *is* nearby, but not close enough. Sending my secondary hero after a small group of unguarded chests can easily cause him to become two days' travel from my main. Even when a secondary hero is half a day away (i.e.: a full day if the secondary hero wants to travel back to where he was)), I'll usually spend two or three movement points of my combat hero as opposed to a dozen or more of my secondary hero. Secondary hero movement points are worth much less than combat hero movement points, but they're not worthless. If you throw in 1000 gold for flagging today versus tomorrow, the tradeoff is especially worth it.

That's just for the beginning of the game. Once I break out of my starting area, my main hero will just dart around killing neutrals and flagging mines and otherwise take a direct path to some unspecified goal, while my secondaries spend a while picking up all the goodies he uncovers. No matter how many secondaries I send out, they'll still fall way behind, as my main will more than likely have Logistics (in H2 at least, as there are very few secondary skills, and thus more chance of getting any specific one).

[maygwan]

As i quoted its a pointless arguement end of!!!!

[Banedon]

That's just for the beginning of the game. Once I break out of my starting area, my main hero will just dart around killing neutrals and flagging mines and otherwise take a direct path to some unspecified goal, while my secondaries spend a while picking up all the goodies he uncovers. No matter how many secondaries I send out, they'll still fall way behind, as my main will more than likely have Logistics (in H2 at least, as there are very few secondary skills, and thus more chance of getting any specific one).

Exactly how many secondaries are you sending out?

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

I don't understand why you'd want to play this game following one single set-in-stone strategy all the time. That's what platform games are for.

[Darmani]

Oh dear, that's not something I think about much. (I normally think things like "Okay, I'll have Alice, Bob, and Carole set up a chain to bring troops to my main hero David. During the rest of the week, Alice and Bob will visit the nearby Windmills and Waterwheels. Once Carole gets to David, she'll follow him and grab resources. Elizabeth was following David recently, but she's currently busy grabbing the exploring and grabbing the free junk in a large area of swamp David just smashed open the entrance to. I sent Frederick to explore Red territory, and harass them by grabbing a few mines. Once a capture that Green castle, I'll hire a new hero Georgina to run around flagging the mines around it ["assimilating the territory"].)

To give a proper answer, I'd have to start up a game, and actually track this (It's probably been a month and a half since I've played Heroes -- I just got a Wii). I'd like to say that I send two or three heroes out once I "break out" of my starting area, though the answer certainly varies greatly depending on the map -- from one on "Forbidden Land," to as many as I can on "Dragon Wars."

So, how do you treat your secondaries?

P.S.: I was just thinking: gold is somewhat scarcer in H2 than H3, which affects how economical it is to buy lots of secondaries.

[maygwan]

you guys have just explained what i said all along how strategy is played varies and depends on the map.

[Herr Patitis]

After everything I've read in this thread, I hope the less experienced among you DON'T try to copy these strategies. You have to find out for yourself what is good and what isn't, otherwise you will fail. And those who say something like: "It's the best way to buy level 7 creatures as soon as possible." are wrong. There is no best way to play heroes. Find a way that appeals to you and you will succeed.

I have been playing this game for years now and I have always played the way that I think is MY best one. In week two, I build the Capitol, after that I build all the creature generators, when I come to a treasure chest, I almost always choose experience. I can't play it differently. I have tried.

Many players would now say that I'm a noob, but, as I said, I have a lot of experience. A noob would never win an Expert map at 160%, which I do quite easily (with Fortress), although I don't play like you do. So please try to overthink your opinion of the "only way" to play again, ok?


now you can bash me

[Kalah]

After everything I've read in this thread, I hope the less experienced among you DON'T try to copy these strategies. You have to find out for yourself what is good and what isn't, otherwise you will fail.

Well... technically, copying the strategies should also be tried. They might work. I guess the point is that they might also not. I agree on the "only" bit; the point of the game is that it can be played in many different ways, depending on the map size, the adversaries and all that.

[Banedon]

After everything I've read in this thread, I hope the less experienced among you DON'T try to copy these strategies. You have to find out for yourself what is good and what isn't, otherwise you will fail. And those who say something like: "It's the best way to buy level 7 creatures as soon as possible." are wrong. There is no best way to play heroes. Find a way that appeals to you and you will succeed.

While I agree that one should not attempt to copy these strategies flat (although they should certainly be attempted), I definitely claim that there is a best way to play Heroes 2/3/4/5. Or even if no single "best" way, there is a very narrow class of "good" ways to play. You can easily find out in multiplayer. Try what you wrote in a game against a competent human player and he'll probably roll you over like a tsunami. It isn't the fault of the player though; it's the fault of game balance.

Still, there's nothing stopping you from playing the game you want to play it in single player. If you want to play a game in which you are a "man of peace", so to speak, and never attack another enemy hero to the point where you have to maneuver until the AI leaves his castles, nothing stopping you.

So, how do you treat your secondaries?

Simple. If there's something for the secondaries to do, I get more heroes. If all the secondaries are going to do is sit in a corner and "read their knowledge" as one of my brothers puts it, then no point getting them, but if as you wrote your secondaries can't keep up with the main hero then it's past time to hire.

[maygwan]

The reason why i mentioned earlier like many have said. there are 100,s of different strategies you can play. many depend on the map or campaign you are playing and as was quoted earlier its probably best to adapt your own strategies..

i do think that a second and maybe third hero are always a good strategy on most maps. some small maps may not need 3 but 2 i think is a must, even if its just to scout the area and chain more troops to the main hero.
not to mention as i said earlier some heroes come with nice abilities or creatures, bron starts with 4 basilisk,christian comes with a ballista, some heroes come with 350 gold a day and so on. they are always worth a purchase.

anyway just to sum up whats already been said your best strategy is to learn by your mistakes and play the maps ect how you feel is best..

[Vlaad II]

After everything I've read in this thread, I hope the less experienced among you DON'T try to copy these strategies. You have to find out for yourself what is good and what isn't, otherwise you will fail. And those who say something like: "It's the best way to buy level 7 creatures as soon as possible." are wrong. There is no best way to play heroes. Find a way that appeals to you and you will succeed.

I have been playing this game for years now and I have always played the way that I think is MY best one. In week two, I build the Capitol, after that I build all the creature generators, when I come to a treasure chest, I almost always choose experience. I can't play it differently. I have tried.

Many players would now say that I'm a noob, but, as I said, I have a lot of experience. A noob would never win an Expert map at 160%, which I do quite easily (with Fortress), although I don't play like you do. So please try to overthink your opinion of the "only way" to play again, ok?


now you can bash me

[Darmani]

Simple. If there's something for the secondaries to do, I get more heroes. If all the secondaries are going to do is sit in a corner and "read their knowledge" as one of my brothers puts it, then no point getting them, but if as you wrote your secondaries can't keep up with the main hero then it's past time to hire.

Yes, my secondaries typically have enough to do that they fall behind the hero. Yes, if I sent a horde (well, 7 heroes -- the max is 8) after my main so that there was less to do for each, they'd have an easier time keeping up.

But here's the thing: Even if I sent all my secondaries straight after my main, they'd still fall behind.

Let me give you an extreme example of why: Last time I played Dragon Wars, my main hero Barok acquired 3-4 movement artifacts, in addition to Expert Logistics. As a result, he could travel several times as far in a day as any scout, even though he carried slower troops. In other words, he could ride for three days and then sit still, and any scout following him would require around two weeks to catch up. By the end of the map, he had Dimension Door and the ability to cast it 20 times, so it became more like "1 day of travel for Barok=3 weeks of travel for a scout." Yes, trying to send him reinforcements was not pleasant (this is an extra-large map with around a half-dozen castles total)...

Cases of that degree are unusual, but it is quite common for me to find my main with Expert Logistics and one movement artifact, and thus moving almost 50% faster than scouts. Add in Expert Pathfinding and small patches of rough terrain, and it becomes hopeless for any scout, even a Barbarian, to catch up.


We seem to be mostly in agreement on how to treat our mains. We share the philosophy that the movement points of the main hero are precious, and thus picking up chests and garbage resources should mostly be left to secondaries. At least for me, that means my main travels straight from battle to battle, defeating guardians so that secondaries may claim their guarded treasure, and attacking the enemy, rarely veering in his path. Meanwhile, my secondaries do all the veering for him.

This leaves me absolutely perplexed: How the heck do you manage to have your secondaries keep pace with your main?

[Salamandre]

the map, he had Dimension Door and the ability to cast it 20 times, so it became more like "1 day of travel for Barok=3 weeks of travel for a scout." Yes, trying to send him reinforcements was not pleasant (this is an extra-large map with around a half-dozen castles total)...

Please check how many times an hero with expert air can cast daily dimension door and report real facts, not your dreams. And after all, if one knows how to chain 7 scouts, they can cover twice the distance a DD hero can travel daily. If you have half dozens castles that means 6 additional scouts in garrisons, thus moving 13 scouts daily.

Let me give you an extreme example of why: Last time I played Dragon Wars, my main hero Barok acquired 3-4 movement artifacts

He casts 20 times/daily DD and wears 4 movement artefacts. What game you play? Certainly not Heroes III.


I don't think the good way to learn or teach how to play is to share our single maps experience. The computer is inexistent. Zero. It cheats because it has more resources and building facilities, but still he is unable to take any valuable decision or to surprise us.

Is this thread about the best play in Heroes? Then ignore all previous posts (almost). Is this thread about how to beat a stupid machine which lacks any tactical strategy? Then follow them.

99% of the actual single player scenarios lack challenge and do not require any planning or brain plots. Mainly because the authors simply do not have a clue what is a good play level. The best way to learn to play and eventually create a map which will be played more than once would be to attack the multiplayer, stand and survive in front of the human cleverness, and you will find the best way to win against something, not against nothing.
Against an human the "picking experience/capitol" strategy is suicidal.

Another way to know if your play level is acceptable (if you are only single maps player) is to go for a high score and see how it works.
Pick a map as Unleashing the Bloodthirsty or Empire of the World II at 200% and reach a 496 score. And then share your tactics.

Being a skilled player is not required for enjoying Heroes. Everyone will practice a different style and will succeed at most maps.
But being a skilled player is required for sharing successful Heroes tactics, not mediocre ones.

@Vlaad: great post. The irony behind an image is stronger than any word.

[Kristo]

Umm, Darmani is talking about Heroes 2. And the thread itself used to be about Heroes 1.

But being a skilled player is required for sharing successful Heroes tactics, not mediocre ones.

Well, since you're implying that you have far more skill than the rest of us, would you mind correcting the advice given so far? Then we could all learn something.